I saw one journalist who said he thought that the combat looked too simple. He said it looked like hack/slash, dodge, and then rinse and repeat. I think it was the rock paper scissors website.
So what that guy is stupid, and nothing is wrong with a little rpg-action hack/slash it's fun, and only one of many ways to do combat in this game. Keep in mind this is all they let them see and I am sure Geralt has way more moves up his sleve. We need to give extra thanks to the godlike master swordsmen who did the awesome mocap work for Geralt I salute him!! What a fucking badass.
Last edited:
That's a valid opinion. The combat of TW3 seems to be rather hack'n'slashish. You can like that or not, that's totally up to one's personal opinion.
RPS push agenda pieces. RPG community knows this.
I've got some concerns off of the demonstration and from the PCGamer article (http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/the-witcher-3-preview-on-combat-and-why-we-can-expect-the-game-to-look-way-better-on-release/)
(yeah I know know but they've seen the game not I)
This passage in particular concerns me "One of Geralt's new toys, a small crossbow, kicked time into slow motion when he pulled it out and aimed. Combat looked as challenging as it did in the first half of The Witcher 2, with enemies quickly racking up damage on Geralt unless he dodged constantly and made liberal use of his magic powers. Mocarski said that enemies actually had lower health for the sake of our time-constrained demo."
Here's the points I want to make.
1.) Why should time be slowed for the crossbow? Here let me whip something out of my pack and get a big advantage with it rather than oh say the sword I already have in my hand. The crossbow shouldn't get any special advantage.
2.) On constant dodging. I don't mind dodging HOWEVER I don't want the game to simply have replaced TW2 roll with the dodge. If combat is dodge, dodge, dodge, slash, dodge, slash then I'm going to be majorly disappointed. I hope to see this in-depth parry system they mentioned I'd much rather mix in some well timed parries than play a dodge-a-thon. One of things I had hoped to see in regards to the look at the Arkham series for the combat was the Arkham countering system. I felt that would have been a way to show Geralt abilities as a master swordsman and allow him to engage multiple foes at once. So I'm interested to see this parry system because what I saw seemed to be much more TW2 parry with a kick added in.
3.) Liberal use of signs. Perhaps those who have more of the books than I can comment but Geralt used signs intelligently but I never felt liberally. In the gameplay demo it seemed like the play needed them to set up the chop in half, keep enemys at bay, and deal some damage. That's all well and good but I felt in TW2 it was too easy to abuse signs to utterly destroy your opponents and frankly signs overshadowed swordplay. Considering Geralt has always been presented as a swordsman first its a little disheartening. I had a much easier time in my Sign build than Sword build in TW2, they should much closer than that. Please make sure swordplay is rewarding and has it own advantages and not what you use when you disabled an enemy with traps/signs/bombs.
4.) Enemy health pools. Im fine with enemies not being tissue paper but please don't make it again where Geralt need to get 8-10 hits in but can only take 3-4 hits himself on human enemies. Don't make Geralt too frail or his weapons too weak.
Thank you for your consideration.
(yeah I know know but they've seen the game not I)
This passage in particular concerns me "One of Geralt's new toys, a small crossbow, kicked time into slow motion when he pulled it out and aimed. Combat looked as challenging as it did in the first half of The Witcher 2, with enemies quickly racking up damage on Geralt unless he dodged constantly and made liberal use of his magic powers. Mocarski said that enemies actually had lower health for the sake of our time-constrained demo."
Here's the points I want to make.
1.) Why should time be slowed for the crossbow? Here let me whip something out of my pack and get a big advantage with it rather than oh say the sword I already have in my hand. The crossbow shouldn't get any special advantage.
2.) On constant dodging. I don't mind dodging HOWEVER I don't want the game to simply have replaced TW2 roll with the dodge. If combat is dodge, dodge, dodge, slash, dodge, slash then I'm going to be majorly disappointed. I hope to see this in-depth parry system they mentioned I'd much rather mix in some well timed parries than play a dodge-a-thon. One of things I had hoped to see in regards to the look at the Arkham series for the combat was the Arkham countering system. I felt that would have been a way to show Geralt abilities as a master swordsman and allow him to engage multiple foes at once. So I'm interested to see this parry system because what I saw seemed to be much more TW2 parry with a kick added in.
3.) Liberal use of signs. Perhaps those who have more of the books than I can comment but Geralt used signs intelligently but I never felt liberally. In the gameplay demo it seemed like the play needed them to set up the chop in half, keep enemys at bay, and deal some damage. That's all well and good but I felt in TW2 it was too easy to abuse signs to utterly destroy your opponents and frankly signs overshadowed swordplay. Considering Geralt has always been presented as a swordsman first its a little disheartening. I had a much easier time in my Sign build than Sword build in TW2, they should much closer than that. Please make sure swordplay is rewarding and has it own advantages and not what you use when you disabled an enemy with traps/signs/bombs.
4.) Enemy health pools. Im fine with enemies not being tissue paper but please don't make it again where Geralt need to get 8-10 hits in but can only take 3-4 hits himself on human enemies. Don't make Geralt too frail or his weapons too weak.
Thank you for your consideration.
Last edited:
Yeah but that kick was fucking awesome. Now if they could do a kool mocap so we can see Gearlt do the same but lundge forward with a right or left punch to the head.
Yeah... it's lacking polish that's it.
This combat is already a billion mother fucking times better than TW2 with way more options to kill and the new animations are SLAYER. What more could you want then polish.
Last edited:
And that would be great and I did like the kick. Generally speaking I'd like to see parries be a flowing fluid thing along the lines of Arkham's counters. What I don't want is why parry/kick when I can Aard? Just like why block in TW2 when you have Quen.
Well that's easy, it all comes down to your personal choice and how you choose to play this game. They gave us lots of options and animations for combat i.e you can go all swords block dodge kill. You can choose 1 of 2 modes of 5 signs to kill. You can use a crossbow. You can use the environment with signs to kill. You can use bombs and traps to kill. You can use your enimies to even kill for you and I believe you can even mix all these up at any time while you are playing. Also we still might get to use that silver chain of geralt's. + We got mounted combat and water combat and no one has yet to rule out climbing combat. I think we have lots to learn and explore as we level up and upgrade in this game. It is going to be great fun. Now all that being said I still want to use my sword on those nasty dive bomb flying monsters like the very first trailer of E3 2013. That looked real fun and it was up close I even saw some blood drops hit the camera lens.
I really want too do that just like that in the game when it comes out.
I think it would be a shame if we are now forced to kill every flying monster with our crossbow.
It is no wonder CDPR cannot explain it's new combat system in a trailer or even a 45 min demo.
It was hard for me to just tell you LOL..
Last edited:
I'm curious exaclty how you will finish off monsters TBH; will it be once their health is down you trigger a cutscene or...?
I played a lot of Dragons Dogma with its interesting way of fighting monsters, so that video of Geralt jumping on the back of the Griffin had me interested.
I played a lot of Dragons Dogma with its interesting way of fighting monsters, so that video of Geralt jumping on the back of the Griffin had me interested.
Last edited:
Absolutely agree man, they have a mocap studio in their basement so I imagine they can tweak a lot with animations in these 8 months (I didn't see any thrusts in the demo), and I really hope they do, I really hope they add animations that resemble fencing maybe from different styles like Kendo and Taijijian as well as european fencing, like you I dream of a combat system that really resemble's real sword-fighting, a combat system that you feel the tension and have to pay attention on your enemies movements, and from what we've seen at E3 I think that can be achieved if they polished the dodging so geralt looked more elegant and more like a dancer, to me he seems a bit all over the place and disoriented, made enemies(humans) more active in battle, enemies should always have their guard up and you should have to break through their parries, also I would love if they added a coup de grace mechanic where you could finish off normal enemies and monsters.
CDPR real artists so I have faith that they will tweak the hell of the CS so that in the final game it feels just like it did in the trailers.
:cheers:
The only issue I can see is that there is only one dodge animation.
Just dodge? ( reminds me of one used by the Man-at-arms in Chivlary ) Where are piruettes? Where are rolls?
Mixing it up would be actually nice.
Otherwise, it looks OK, we do not have the details about the how the parry works ( hopefully not like in Witcher 2 last patch, dunno who's idea it was for parrying to only block 100 % dmg on full vigour ),
and let's just hope there is a lot of combat animations to be seen. I kinda missed that coming from Witcher 1 to Witcher 2.
Just dodge? ( reminds me of one used by the Man-at-arms in Chivlary ) Where are piruettes? Where are rolls?
Mixing it up would be actually nice.
Otherwise, it looks OK, we do not have the details about the how the parry works ( hopefully not like in Witcher 2 last patch, dunno who's idea it was for parrying to only block 100 % dmg on full vigour
),and let's just hope there is a lot of combat animations to be seen. I kinda missed that coming from Witcher 1 to Witcher 2.
As much as I agree and as much as we share the same dream and honestly don't see that happening...
It's not done with animations. If you really want to improve combat to a level like you described you have to make a hugely improved (real physics based) collision system that actually calculates where your sword hits the enemy and his sword and stuff. That's some serious changes to the core system...
@Isen'grim'
CDPR confimred normal dodge, pirouette and parry. But they also said that the whole system is far from finished and that they constantly tweak the system. Have you played Witcher 2 with the Full Combat Rebalanced mod?
Last edited:
Yes, I did play Witcher 2 FCR... absolutely hate it.
I liked FCR for Witcher 1, but for Wticher 2.. my god... the horror.
Random parry? No, just please no.
Sustained quen that locks you in place? Just kill me already.
I was thinking it would make parry on the move a thing ( you know, parry on locked enemy [ upgrade gives you a 60-90 degree parrying cone, or sth like that ) ), but the random parrying is just bloody unaccepctable, as well as the damage you take while parrying without full vigour in vanilla last patch ( basially making quen even more necessary, which is an irritation for me, I do not like to use it. I prefer just sword & aard .)
To Witcher 3 combat improvements though. The parrying enemies and all that is a must, I am afaird.
The physics based combat... I do not feel it's a necessity. If done well, with focus on positioning, mobility and tricks, the Witcher combat version 2.5, can be seriously good.
It may not be as impossible as we think, check out this combat system for a bit :As much as I agree and as much as we share the same dream and honestly don't see that happening...
It's not done with animations. If you really want to improve combat to a level like you described you have to make a hugely improved (real physics based) collision system that actually calculates where your sword hits the enemy and his sword and stuff. That's some serious changes to the core system...
@Isen'grim'
CDPR confimred normal dodge, pirouette and parry. But they also said that the whole system is far from finished and that they constantly tweak the system. Have you played Witcher 2 with the Full Combat Rebalanced mod?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ki2VQyn80I
See how they handle parrying and dodging animation wise it looks very natural, and notice how in order to damage your opponent you have to wait for them to lay down their guard so both player and enemy are always paying attention to each other's moves, imo this is CS gets close to the "perfect fencing CS" we all dream of, and it was made many years ago(no physics simulation), imo the CDPR should add this type of blocking mechanic inspired in fighting games where both have to look for opening in their guards, and also here the player and the AI have the same basic abilities, both can dodge, parry, both can perform combos and both attack with comparable speed, so its not unbalanced like in TW2 where geralt has 5 animations for each type of move and can perform many different combos and enemies have 1 animation for the 2 moves they can perform( cut and block).
Last edited:
Good example! And I agree about pretty much everything you've said here.
But I guess combat in TW3 is at the moment too different at the core from the one in SW Episode III. I don't know if CDPR have to balls to completely revisit the combat system...
