You're playing this game wrong!

[DankRafft]

Damn, I wasn't aware that I was playing the game wrong the last 6 or 7 playthroughs while having fun with them.

It doesn't really matter how you build your character, after level 30 with some decent equipment the game becomes way too easy even on Very Hard difficulty.
I did the classic builds/playthroughs of Solo, Netrunner and Techie. Then I did a pure stealth assassin and afterwards a jack of all trades (even attribute/skill/perk distribution). Right now I do a playthrough (currently level 42) while not investing any perk points. It's mildly more difficult but since a lot of perks don't work at all, have neglectable impact or only work right after you learn them and stop working after a game restart I barely notice a difference anyway.

In order to have a somewhat enjoyable late-game I'd need limit myself to white rarity equipment (including most of the cyberware) only, don't invest any perk points (as I do already). But then I could also completely stop playing the game altogether because there's nothing to achieve in regards to RPG elements.

 

[Marajah]

CDPR devs intended at one point for each life path to dictate your build. Because interestingly if you look at the attributes and perk trees they fall into three character builds. Netrunner, Solo, and techie which were all real character classes in CP2020. They later changed this (most likely) to be more accessible and allow players to get all content through a single lifepath.

Now look at lifepaths. SOLO for STREET KID, Netrunner for CORPO, and TECHIE for NOMAD.
NOMAD you wouldn't know how to do much hacking meaning you would rely heavily on using your tech to build powerful weapons and open doors or alternate paths.
CORPO you would hack mostly everything and be extremely passive in how you interact with enemies.
SOLO you would rip open doors relying on combat power and direct action.

CDPR made it so you can be your own class which is nice but also creates the issue you are all complaining about.
every life path seems pretty much the same. Well duh, if you're playing a SOLO type class in every life path
(which was at one time only intended for a STREETKID) you're going to have a very similar experience.

I've been role playing this way since I played the game.
Which is why a lot of your experiences I just don't get.
I'm a CORPO, I suck at direct combat. I go down in seconds if
I try to take on enemies head on. Which makes stealth for me
super fun because if I mess up, I barely make it out alive half the time.
I also run into many doors I can't open because my tech is too low.
I didn't get Johnnies car because I made a bad decision and and didn't
have another attribute to lean on because I was sticking to my netrunner class.
All my decisions felt like a corpo because my skill checks matched my corpo life path.
And whenever I had a decision I made it within a corpo mindset.

I think some of you are sucking the enjoyment out of this game because
you're not actually role playing. You're being your own V which is fine, but because
you're specing into everything and reading guides you're basically cheating and opening
all content by basically knowing how to spec your character to get all the goodies and
advantageous situations to occur.

I didn't do this. My next run through the game will be extremely different because I will no longer be able to hack
a camera or set someone on fire from 50 meters away parked in my car across the street. But who knows, maybe
I finally might not go down like wet paper lol and I'll see how much fun it is to run around parkour style doing style kills as I
rip and tear through gangers in my SOLO STREETKID run.

Your post is narrow minded and the way you tie lifepaths to classes makes no sense. Smasher is a corpo solo, the Aldecaldos have a netrunner and apparently if you want to steal cars as a good streetkid, you need some Techie skills.

Good thing you are enjoying the game, but there are other ways to do it. If a game presents you options on playing the game, but they make them feel out of place, that's just bad game design.

Lifepaths make very little difference. It's not about roleplaying, since we can still do that. It's about V always being a mercenary in the end with very few ties to his previous lifepath. We don't get to see what happens in between the Bakkers, we have no ties to gangs as a streetkid (as the convo with Padre would have us believe), and choosing a corpo only to immediately turn into an ex-corpo in 10 minutes of gameplay is kinda meh.

 

[WolvesCreek]

I don't really agree with what you consider to be roleplaying "stereotypes" - for example I also played a street kid but my character was good at hacking and engineering (my main two). Thats totally believable just like a street kid who loved technology and tried to get their hands on it no matter how crappy.

Per gameplay style that really comes down to personal style, telling people how to play a game that allows you to play it the way YOU want to play it doesn't make a lot of sense. If the game was meant to be played in a certain way than options otherwise wouldn't exist.

Per roleplaying again, an orc can be a wizard but just in a different way than a human - he's a shaman.

 

[Dark-Exa]

It's interesting to see each other's points of view but telling others that they play wrongly because they don't play the way you play, I find this a bit provocative (don't be offended, eh).

If a game allows several ways to play it, nothing prevents others from playing their own styles because these are their choices.


(Don't ask me how I play, I haven't touched CP2077 since the beginning of January ...)

 

[PoppyRunner]

Still trying to figure out how is the Stealth perk undetected underwater any helpful lul

 

[Realgametester]

Still trying to figure out how is the Stealth perk undetected underwater any helpful lul

It isn't

 

[Restlessdingo32]

I get the feeling the streetkid -> solo, corpo -> netrunner, nomad -> techie paradigm presented in this thread is there to make a point. Not suggest this is the only way to play the game. The point being the ideal way to play the game is to extract a mental construction of your character design from the game and use it to direct all your decision making and behavior within it.

An easy way to clarify that would be to look at games with highly structured class architecture. Your fighter behaves like a fighter. Your wizard behaves like a wizard. In these games you are forced to play these respective classes this way because you must do so. They cannot be successful when played as the "wrong" role.

The other common approach is to open all of this up. You have no defined role. One character can have abilities of a fighter and a wizard. Alternatively, they can do everything well no matter what. I think CP fits between the two. It's arguably closer to the latter due to other areas, like difficulty (or lack thereof). In this case you have to actively decide how to restrict the character yourself. You have to decide what it can and cannot do and remain within those restrictions.

The OP is suggesting CP is ideally played with these self-imposed restrictions. If you build a character as a savvy/stealthy, corpo netrunner then play it this way. If a dialogue option outside this scope presents itself you go with another option. Until you find one best fitting this archetype. In a certain sense I'd agree with this notion. It's how I attempted to play the game myself.

I would feel inclined to point out this has zero to do with any criticism I've directed at the game though. So the argument I am not doing this, playing the game in a non-ideal fashion and being critical of the game because of it is false.

I don't feel the game was structured with these self-imposed limitations in mind either. Instead, most of the dialogue and decision making is built in such a heavily "fluid" direction it can clash with trying to play it this way. Many options don't fit with such a mentally constructed character concept because they fit any concept equally well.

In fact, this last bit is why this fluidness can be counter-productive in an RPG. In my opinion anyway. When the limitations are removed, as per the fighter and wizard model, the overall game structure stops caring about those differences or has a hard time accounting for them. This tends to make characters the player can build feel rather generic. You can fight against this element and try to force your idea of a character into it. It only goes so far though.

An example here would be the life-path implementation. Even though you get unique dialogue for these it doesn't drive much. Instead it offers you flavor. Furthermore, many of these unique options play out very similar to default options. It fails to achieve quite the same effect you would get if those LP selections did drive the narrative or gameplay.

Surprise, surprise, this is the core reason I have not been impressed by LP's. It was right there, almost on top of the mountain. Instead of taking those extra steps to reach the top it turned around and marched right back down to the bottom.

Text wall, activate. I can never seem to avoid it....

 

[batouyukinawa]

Your post is narrow minded and the way you tie lifepaths to classes makes no sense. Smasher is a corpo solo, the Aldecaldos have a netrunner and apparently if you want to steal cars as a good streetkid, you need some Techie skills.

Good thing you are enjoying the game, but there are other ways to do it. If a game presents you options on playing the game, but they make them feel out of place, that's just bad game design.

Lifepaths make very little difference. It's not about roleplaying, since we can still do that. It's about V always being a mercenary in the end with very few ties to his previous lifepath. We don't get to see what happens in between the Bakkers, we have no ties to gangs as a streetkid (as the convo with Padre would have us believe), and choosing a corpo only to immediately turn into an ex-corpo in 10 minutes of gameplay is kinda meh.

I'm not saying the lifepaths are this way in the books. They're not. Corpo is actually a class not a lifepath if you want to go
by the books. I'm merely saying had CDPR limited those lifepaths to those three classes, we would have had vastly different experiences. Instead I have a guy saying how he's using a MK4 deck with pretty much a SOLO build. This doesn't make sense to me. You wouldn't even have access to a deck in the pen and paper if you were a solo class. Classes don't have limits which depreciates the uniqueness of each class.

To be fair, one of CDPR devs said that months before release. He said something along the lines of "in the end, you're always a mercenary" so this whole hugely different experience given your life path; I was never expecting this.

Post automatically merged: Feb 7, 2021

I get the feeling the streetkid -> solo, corpo -> netrunner, nomad -> techie paradigm presented in this thread is there to make a point. Not suggest this is the only way to play the game. The point being the ideal way to play the game is to extract a mental construction of your character design from the game and use it to direct all your decision making and behavior within it.

An easy way to clarify that would be to look at games with highly structured class architecture. Your fighter behaves like a fighter. Your wizard behaves like a wizard. In these games you are forced to play these respective classes this way because you must do so. They cannot be successful when played as the "wrong" role.

The other common approach is to open all of this up. You have no defined role. One character can have abilities of a fighter and a wizard. Alternatively, they can do everything well no matter what. I think CP fits between the two. It's arguably closer to the latter due to other areas, like difficulty (or lack thereof). In this case you have to actively decide how to restrict the character yourself. You have to decide what it can and cannot do and remain within those restrictions.

The OP is suggesting CP is ideally played with these self-imposed restrictions. If you build a character as a savvy/stealthy, corpo netrunner then play it this way. If a dialogue option outside this scope presents itself you go with another option. Until you find one best fitting this archetype. In a certain sense I'd agree with this notion. It's how I attempted to play the game myself.

I would feel inclined to point out this has zero to do with any criticism I've directed at the game though. So the argument I am not doing this, playing the game in a non-ideal fashion and being critical of the game because of it is false.

I don't feel the game was structured with these self-imposed limitations in mind either. Instead, most of the dialogue and decision making is built in such a heavily "fluid" direction it can clash with trying to play it this way. Many options don't fit with such a mentally constructed character concept because they fit any concept equally well.

In fact, this last bit is why this fluidness can be counter-productive in an RPG. In my opinion anyway. When the limitations are removed, as per the fighter and wizard model, the overall game structure stops caring about those differences or has a hard time accounting for them. This tends to make characters the player can build feel rather generic. You can fight against this element and try to force your idea of a character into it. It only goes so far though.

An example here would be the life-path implementation. Even though you get unique dialogue for these it doesn't drive much. Instead it offers you flavor. Furthermore, many of these unique options play out very similar to default options. It fails to achieve quite the same effect you would get if those LP selections did drive the narrative or gameplay.

Surprise, surprise, this is the core reason I have not been impressed by LP's. It was right there, almost on top of the mountain. Instead of taking those extra steps to reach the top it turned around and marched right back down to the bottom.

Text wall, activate. I can never seem to avoid it....

Well, someone gets me lol. Thanks for elaborating on my point. Yes, this is exactly my point. If you restrict yourself in this game and play on hard/very hard, you will begin to see the uniqueness of your build. Suddenly your netrunner squishy build has to run and retreat from a gunfight because he/she will be worm food if they stand their ground. And because of this sudden change in how you approach each situation, you begin to notice you're decision making; both inside and outside dialog, becomes aligned with this netrunner archetype.

Now as you're playing you think to yourself how different the game would be had you chose to be a SOLO which the 2018 demo points out. But I feel at some point, CDPR released these limits allowing you to be a very generic do everything character as to not scare away the mainstream.

 

[ya1]

To op:

Everyone can play the game the way they have fun with it. And no-one can tell them otherwise. But there are objective criteria pertaining to product quality. These objective criteria are a matter of fact regardless of your subjective fun. And people are salty not because they are playing it wrong (no such thing) but because CP is extremely low quality in certain aspects despite of what was promised and expected.

Still trying to figure out how is the Stealth perk undetected underwater any helpful lul

Afaik there is exactly one place. The gig about stealing sex tapes of some politician. One of the guards is standing on a pier, and he can detect your underwater approach if you choose to go that way. And that's it.

This is obviously a remnant of cut (or planned but undeveloped) content.

 

[PoppyRunner]

To op:

Everyone can play the game the way they have fun with it. And no-one can tell them otherwise. But there are objective criteria pertaining to product quality. These objective criteria are a matter of fact regardless of your subjective fun. And people are salty not because they are playing it wrong (no such thing) but because CP is extremely low quality in certain aspects despite of what was promised and expected.



Afaik there is exactly one place. The gig about stealing sex tapes of some politician. One of the guards is standing on a pier, and he can detect your underwater approach if you choose to go that way. And that's it.

This is obviously a remnant of cut (or planned but undeveloped) content.

still doesnt justify 1 perk for a mission it just makes no sense to me its not like assassin's creed odyssey gives you the stealth perk just for that one mission
altho i gotta say the reply before mine is top notch and i completely i agree with you

 

[WolvesCreek]

I think this really comes down to telling people how to play based on your personal opinion doesn't mean anything more than that - its your personal opinion but it doesnt make it right or wrong. Nor do people have to agree with you, especially if they don't enjoy playing the game as you "dictate" it has to be played.

Games are about having fun.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

If you restrict yourself in this game and play on hard/very hard, you will begin to see the uniqueness of your build. Suddenly your netrunner squishy build has to run and retreat from a gunfight because he/she will be worm food if they stand their ground.

Unfortunately this specific component is questionable. Even on the hardest difficulty. The reasons are the progression isn't important enough, gear/level/execution confer most of your ability to destroy things, the enemy behavior, or "AI", is comparable to a microscopic pebble and the game balance was designed surprisingly well. The only exception is if you try to facetank the enemies. This is universally not very smart though.

This is very similar to TW3. Well, virtually every SP game I suppose. No, I am not going to wait until later to slap the level 34 Hag upside the head as a level 5 on DM.

 

[Realgametester]

The only exception is if you try to facetank the enemies. This is universally not very smart though.

With the right gear/perks/cyberware you can face tank enemies provided they are not above your level. (orange or red for example)

At max level you can slaughter waves of MaxTac officers with a katana until they just stop spawning and your warrant stars reset

 

[batouyukinawa]

Yeah, I just don't see the fun in being invincible. Why even the play the game at that point. Or just put it on easy mode and go through the motions lol.

 

[Grindders]

A couple days ago I watched a video of someone beating a game following an official guide's suggestions and advice.

Sounds interesting. Could you give me a link?

 

[horsemanuk1987]

You seem to be expecting everyone to play by your own self imposed limits and how you enjoy to play.

A role playing game is about the player playing the way they want to play within the realms of what the game allows you to do (Mods excluded).

If the game imposed that on the player, that a life path dictates your skill acquisition, then that's how the game is meant to be played. However, that's not a limit set by the games developers, so we are free to choose how we want to distribute our skills and how we want to make our character.

I'm also failing to see the logic that if your lifepath was for example corpo, you should therefore be physically weak and focus on stealth? The life paths are more socio-economic than mental/physical.

 

[batouyukinawa]

You seem to be expecting everyone to play by your own self imposed limits and how you enjoy to play.

A role playing game is about the player playing the way they want to play within the realms of what the game allows you to do (Mods excluded).

If the game imposed that on the player, that a life path dictates your skill acquisition, then that's how the game is meant to be played. However, that's not a limit set by the games developers, so we are free to choose how we want to distribute our skills and how we want to make our character.

I'm also failing to see the logic that if your lifepath was for example corpo, you should therefore be physically weak and focus on stealth? The life paths are more socio-economic than mental/physical.

My only point there was to emphasize how different your experiences would be if you
made a true netrunner, techie, or solo build for each lifepath. CDPR didn't follow the pen and paper.
They went the safe route to appeal more to mainstream. Sticking with classes would have made each run special.
Why is a SOLO able to use a MK4 DECK? That's like a knight using a high level mage's spell. Gee, a bit OP don't ya think???
What's the fun in making an OP character other than to enjoy a power fantasy? Sure it's fun for a while, but most people
would get bored of the combat. Oh and lookie there. People on this forum complaining about how the combat is
boring, or the game is too easy. Well no crap, you made a do everything tank who can use high level quickhacks,
what did you expect? A challenge???

It's not the players fault though, you're right. It's CDPR's fault. But if you want a challenge or feel the systems
CDPR has designed actually working, play on hard, choose a class.

 

[CS554]

My only point there was to emphasize how different your experiences would be if you
made a true netrunner, techie, or solo build for each lifepath. CDPR didn't follow the pen and paper.
They went the safe route to appeal more to mainstream. Sticking with classes would have made each run special.
Why is a SOLO able to use a MK4 DECK? That's like a knight using a high level mage's spell. Gee, a bit OP don't ya think???
What's the fun in making an OP character other than to enjoy a power fantasy? Sure it's fun for a while, but most people
would get bored of the combat. Oh and lookie there. People on this forum complaining about how the combat is
boring, or the game is too easy. Well no crap, you made a do everything tank who can use high level quickhacks,
what did you expect? A challenge???

It's not the players fault though, you're right. It's CDPR's fault. But if you want a challenge or feel the systems
CDPR has designed actually working, play on hard, choose a class.

I got what you meant to say but it's just that different people take things more or less literally and others.

For difficulty, I really appreciate that I don't need to fiddle with stuff too much to play them. I really liked the Outer World, story was what got hooked and it's a matter of certain economy even, to be able go through game by winging it on easy or normal difficulty. Your idea gives people who look more challenge more options, I can appreciate that but also that it's optional.

Serious talk about game balance, I think we need to wait for 1.2 and see what's fixed before really going to that.

 

[Guest 4531988]

Damn, I wasn't aware that I was playing the game wrong the last 6 or 7 playthroughs while having fun with them.

It doesn't really matter how you build your character, after level 30 with some decent equipment the game becomes way too easy even on Very Hard difficulty.
I did the classic builds/playthroughs of Solo, Netrunner and Techie. Then I did a pure stealth assassin and afterwards a jack of all trades (even attribute/skill/perk distribution). Right now I do a playthrough (currently level 42) while not investing any perk points. It's mildly more difficult but since a lot of perks don't work at all, have neglectable impact or only work right after you learn them and stop working after a game restart I barely notice a difference anyway.

In order to have a somewhat enjoyable late-game I'd need limit myself to white rarity equipment (including most of the cyberware) only, don't invest any perk points (as I do already). But then I could also completely stop playing the game altogether because there's nothing to achieve in regards to RPG elements.

I get the feeling the streetkid -> solo, corpo -> netrunner, nomad -> techie paradigm presented in this thread is there to make a point. Not suggest this is the only way to play the game. The point being the ideal way to play the game is to extract a mental construction of your character design from the game and use it to direct all your decision making and behavior within it.

An easy way to clarify that would be to look at games with highly structured class architecture. Your fighter behaves like a fighter. Your wizard behaves like a wizard. In these games you are forced to play these respective classes this way because you must do so. They cannot be successful when played as the "wrong" role.

The other common approach is to open all of this up. You have no defined role. One character can have abilities of a fighter and a wizard. Alternatively, they can do everything well no matter what. I think CP fits between the two. It's arguably closer to the latter due to other areas, like difficulty (or lack thereof). In this case you have to actively decide how to restrict the character yourself. You have to decide what it can and cannot do and remain within those restrictions.

The OP is suggesting CP is ideally played with these self-imposed restrictions. If you build a character as a savvy/stealthy, corpo netrunner then play it this way. If a dialogue option outside this scope presents itself you go with another option. Until you find one best fitting this archetype. In a certain sense I'd agree with this notion. It's how I attempted to play the game myself.

I would feel inclined to point out this has zero to do with any criticism I've directed at the game though. So the argument I am not doing this, playing the game in a non-ideal fashion and being critical of the game because of it is false.

I don't feel the game was structured with these self-imposed limitations in mind either. Instead, most of the dialogue and decision making is built in such a heavily "fluid" direction it can clash with trying to play it this way. Many options don't fit with such a mentally constructed character concept because they fit any concept equally well.

In fact, this last bit is why this fluidness can be counter-productive in an RPG. In my opinion anyway. When the limitations are removed, as per the fighter and wizard model, the overall game structure stops caring about those differences or has a hard time accounting for them. This tends to make characters the player can build feel rather generic. You can fight against this element and try to force your idea of a character into it. It only goes so far though.

An example here would be the life-path implementation. Even though you get unique dialogue for these it doesn't drive much. Instead it offers you flavor. Furthermore, many of these unique options play out very similar to default options. It fails to achieve quite the same effect you would get if those LP selections did drive the narrative or gameplay.

Surprise, surprise, this is the core reason I have not been impressed by LP's. It was right there, almost on top of the mountain. Instead of taking those extra steps to reach the top it turned around and marched right back down to the bottom.

Text wall, activate. I can never seem to avoid it....

To be honest it doesn't change how your play the game. You still approach it with the same goals. Gigs for Extractions you are suppose to extract the target but can kill or avoid everyone else, You

My only point there was to emphasize how different your experiences would be if you
made a true netrunner, techie, or solo build for each lifepath. CDPR didn't follow the pen and paper.
They went the safe route to appeal more to mainstream. Sticking with classes would have made each run special.
Why is a SOLO able to use a MK4 DECK? That's like a knight using a high level mage's spell. Gee, a bit OP don't ya think???
What's the fun in making an OP character other than to enjoy a power fantasy? Sure it's fun for a while, but most people
would get bored of the combat. Oh and lookie there. People on this forum complaining about how the combat is
boring, or the game is too easy. Well no crap, you made a do everything tank who can use high level quickhacks,
what did you expect? A challenge???

It's not the players fault though, you're right. It's CDPR's fault. But if you want a challenge or feel the systems
CDPR has designed actually working, play on hard, choose a class.

If you are just looking for a "stupid challenege" Just leave all abilities at 3 at the start and level level them up and try to beat the game on very hard.

 

[batouyukinawa]

Yes, but the pen and paper, which this game is supposed to be based off of, doesn't even allow a SOLO
character to use decks. That's a netrunner only weapon. And, as you can see, completely unbalances the game.

I have no issue with allowing easy mode for those who suck at games and just want to enjoy the story. But I also expect
limitations to what you can do. This is why cheating in a game is fun at first but ultimately boring after a while.