Will bullet resistance be a thing for melee characters? What do you guys think?

[Suhiira]

One thing I'd like to bring up immediately is using weapon caliber alone to determine damage is beyond foolish ... and incredibly common in games.
I'd (not gladly, but I'd do it) take a .45 ACP (apx. 500J muzzle energy) in the chest if wearing a decent body armor. But no way in hell would I want to get hit by a 45/70 (apx. 2,700J muzzle energy). Both are .45 caliber rounds but there's a VAST difference.

On to the real topic.

While what Calistarius says has merit the complexity involved in trying to incorporate something like this into a game gives me nightmares. Currently CP2020 has a system, that wile not perfect, works pretty darn well for armor penetration and blunt force trauma from non-penetrating hits. Why reinvent the wheel?

 

[Calistarius]

Oh I was not trying to say that CDPR should use the idea of with enough shots any armor could be broken for their game... I was only talking about this because it's a fact. Essentially I was being half off topic, because I was talking about real life, and not how it might or might not be in the actual game. XD

And I know that calibre alone is not everything, which I did say in my post. I only took the 9mm as an example for the general punching power your average 9mm might have.


As for complexity of implimenting it... I don't think that it needs to be all that complex in the game though. Just give every type of ammunition available a statistic which effects the armors protection value only, a statistic which lowers the armors protection value everytime it hits armor. So while the armor might at first have a certain protection number which lowers the incoming damage, when hit with ammunition X it's protection value will go down with let's say 10% (does not need to be %, I am only using % as an example), but when you use ammunition Y it might go down with 25%... because Y was made for punching through armor.


I would not mind if they used a system simmilar to Brigade E5 and it's sequal 7.62 High Calibre, or any of the other sequals as well (think there are 4 or 5 games in total). Those games system do to one degree or another work like I mentioned above. Heh... I keep bringing up these games on this forum... because they are, in my mind, the most realistic game I have ever played when it comes to combat... especially when it comes to the effects of combat, and being shot at (even if they miss), being hit with various kinds of ammunition, etc. Just the fact that the game keeps track of your characters adrenalin levels in a fight as well is cool, because even there it is pretty realistic. High adrenalin and your characters chance to hit goes down, but the speed at which they get of each new shot becomes faster... low adrenalin and your hit chance goes up, but the speed of which they get of a new shot becomes slower.

A spike of adrenalin has at times saved my characters in these games because they managed to squeeze of a shot that little fraction of a second faster then the opponent did. Which is relevant, because if a character is hit by any type of thing in this game, then it shocks the character for a little bit, halting their action for X amount of time (depends on what it is really, and how hard of a hit it was, etc). Of course, the kind of weapon your character is holding, and the characters stats and skills, effects the speed of firing more then adrenalin does... but sometimes those fractions of seconds, that adrenalin will change, make all the difference between your character being dead or alive. Suppression actually works in this game partly thanks to adrenalin as well... because on top of it makes the enemy take cover, it also raises their adrenalin levels so that they have a harder time hitting your guys when they do fire back.

It also means that every kind of weapon in this game has it's usages... even the games worst pistol can win over someone with the best assaul rifles you can find in the game... as long as your in somewhat close range of course, because the pistol will always be quicker to get of a shot with compared to an assault rifle. But the assault rifle will close to always win against someone with only a pistol if your at medium to longer range, due to the accuracy issues a pistol can have at longer ranges (you/they can get lucky of course and hit anyway with the pistol at longer ranges, and a headshot is a headshot after all... even if the helmet maybe did take the brunt of the hit). That is why all my characters in these games always carry a main and secondary weapon... usually some kind of rifle as main, combined with a pistol or a smaller smg as secondary (maybe a shotgun, depends on what I am going into really, and how strong the character is). Because sometimes it's a bad idea using rifles, even if it does put out a lot more damage per hit compared to pistols or smg's, especially when going around corners and being in close quarter fighting indoors, etc.

 

[Calistarius]

Edit: Gah... second time now in only a few weeks or months where I accidentally pressed "quote" instead of "edit"... did not catch it untill after I posted it. XD

 

[Suhiira]

I very much liked Brigade E5 and 7.62 High Calibre, and think they'd fit in very well with CP2077. But I also realize a non FPS character skill based system is (unfortunately) highly improbable.

 

[Calistarius]

I very much liked Brigade E5 and 7.62 High Calibre, and think they'd fit in very well with CP2077. But I also realize a non FPS character skill based system is (unfortunately) highly improbable.

Yeah... these types of games are unfortunatly not as popular as I would want them to be (since if they where popular I would be getting more of them, which is what I want), atleast not anymore (used to be more of these kinds of games I think, like the old Jagged Alliance which these games where based on). But like you I don't think CP2077 will be anything like these games... and agree with you that they will probably fall into a more action oriented type of thing.

But one can dream and hope, which both of us are doing of course, that more then just the setting from the CP2020 makes it into the game. I mean I personally will still probably be ok with CP2077 even if it was only the setting that in the end made it into the game, because I have always felt that there has always been to few sci-fi RPG's out there in the videogame market (both amongst "proper rpgs" and "rpg-lite's")... and I would be ok with a CP2077 that was simmilar to Mass Effect (which is after all still one of my favorit rpg game series ever, even if they are rpg-lite's in my mind... and I have always been atleast allright to good at shooters and FPS games... I really like the Farcry and Crysis series for example, and played those a fair bit, never in multiplayer though since I think multiplayer is extremely boring)... but it would still be such a shame if the setting was all they used, and that none of the complexity of the character system of CP2020 where to be used other then the concept of the classes or something. There is still hope though that we might get some of the complexity.

Hopefully we know by about mid next year what the game will be.

 

[Suhiira]

I'm pretty sure that Mike wouldn't have cut a deal with CDPR if it was only the setting they planned to use. After all many companies in the past have approached him to create games using the Cyberpunk label and he refused to sell because they planned to use only the setting for some shoot-em-up game.

So it being ONLY a shooter set in Cyberpunk I don't think is a concern. That's not to say it still couldn't be a shooter when it comes to it's combat mechanics tho. Obviously many here would prefer that, and just as many would not. So I'll keep beating my hopefully not dead horse and say - Make it both.

 

[Corewolf]

I'm pretty sure that Mike wouldn't have cut a deal with CDPR if it was only the setting they planned to use. After all many companies in the past have approached him to create games using the Cyberpunk label and he refused to sell because they planned to use only the setting for some shoot-em-up game.

So it being ONLY a shooter set in Cyberpunk I don't think is a concern. That's not to say it still couldn't be a shooter when it comes to it's combat mechanics tho. Obviously many here would prefer that, and just as many would not. So I'll keep beating my hopefully not dead horse and say - Make it both.

Suhiira said the things I thought before I even thought of them. So I'm just going to quote her.

Pondsmith won't let them screw this up. He'd pull the license first.

 

[Calistarius]

Mm... I temporarily forgot that part about Mike being part of it, I mean I knew that about Mike and his reasons for saying no in the past, and for saying yes to CDPR... it just slipped my mind here.

Unless anything has changed I guess he still travels to Poland every now and then to help with steering the development atleast a little.

 

[lord_blex]

Pondsmith won't let them screw this up. He'd pull the license first.

he's part of the team as an advisor (or something more), but I doubt he could just back out of the deal at this point.
I can't find the exact interview, but CDPR has expressed that they only wanna work on something that they own and have full control over. so I doubt they signed a deal where the "first party" would still have final say about things.

this is what I could find right now:

In terms of freedom, we're owners of our IP, so we're free to do almost anything with Cyberpunk and the Witcher. We're creatively independent. It's a good thing to have.
Q:So you'll be the sole owners of the Cyberpunk 2077 IP?
Adam Badowski:We'll be the owners of it. It's always our policy.

 

[Suhiira]

That's reasonable on CDPRs part. But Mike was willing to agree to it which tells me they saw eye-to-eye on the important stuff. And he's still acting as a consultant, apparently enthuastically.

 

[Corewolf]

Even if he couldn't pull the title from it should it go south, he could openly denounce it. The fact that he is contributing so willingly, especially after years of turning people down, promises good things.

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

I'm pretty sure that Mike wouldn't have cut a deal with CDPR if it was only the setting they planned to use. After all many companies in the past have approached him to create games using the Cyberpunk label and he refused to sell because they planned to use only the setting for some shoot-em-up game.

So it being ONLY a shooter set in Cyberpunk I don't think is a concern. That's not to say it still couldn't be a shooter when it comes to it's combat mechanics tho. Obviously many here would prefer that, and just as many would not. So I'll keep beating my hopefully not dead horse and say - Make it both.

Anyone got names on those? Heard last time he only mentioned about someone trying to turn it into mobile game.
IP has a lot of potential, pretty damn odd it was standing on ice ( in AAA), for this long.

 

[Calistarius]

Anyone got names on those? Heard last time he only mentioned about someone trying to turn it into mobile game.
IP has a lot of potential, pretty damn odd it was standing on ice ( in AAA), for this long.

No... not really... no names where mentioned... and most of it was said around 2012-2013ïsh as well. The moblie one I am a bit uncertain about... because I found both informtion saying that a mobile game came the closest to being done because it felt like the best representation of CP2020 to Mike... and then another post where he said that they came close with a mobile game but that they had wanted to change way to much so that it did not feel like CP anumore to Mike. Not sure if it is the same one or not. But yeah... apperantly it was some kind of mobilphone game (or two of them) that both came the closest to being made, and was the closest in "right Cyberpunk feeling" as well in Mike's feelings about it.

Apparently one MMO project partly never happend because some key person in the development of the game got drafted into the military, which countries military I do not know... but still... XD

Here below are a few links to what he has said about this topic of other possible games that never got made. No named companies or anything... just a hint that the range of type of developers having been anything from really really small companies, to the big AAA making companies, and the range of types of games being as versatile as well... You will have to read through the entire things your self to find it though... since I don't feel like pointing directly out where it is said, qand what not... mostly because I am hungry and want to go and get my self something to eat (since I have not eaten anything yet today, it's been something like 16 or 20 hours since last time)... otherwise I would probably have plastered a 3-4 times larger posts then this one.

Hmm... maybe I should write more forum posts when I am really hungry, it might make my posts smaller... XD

CP2077 blog post.

Rock Paper Shotgun article.

Glixel article.

 

[RLKing1969]

I'm going to put it like this: If you are going to carry a knife to a firefight, you'd either better be sneaky as hell or have some SERIOUS Kevlar covering your ass. 'Nuff said.