New Patch; the Good, the Bad and the Ugly - a top 200 perspective

[Nimraphel]

New Patch; the Good, the Bad and the Ugly - a top 200 perspective

Hey everyone,

First post here. I recently participated in the SevenCatsBrawl (came 5-8th place) and am top 200 MMR. It doesn't matter per se, and there's no vanity in me sharing that, but it does maybe explain my perspective on some of the upcoming changes to Gwent. I'll start with the Ugly and the Bad, because although I am a huge fan of Gwent, and find the game superior to its immediate competitors, the interesting part for everyone - devs most of all - is criticism at this stage of the game (Closed Beta).

The Ugly

1. Inability to Snipe Gold Cards Limits Diversity. I don't think I am exaggerating when I state that as of the next patch, Dimetirium Bomb and Dimetirium Shackles will be mandatory in every single deck. D-Bomb was already a staple in most decks, and if it wasn't, it was a guaranteed sideboard slot in tournament play. The upcoming patch will make D-bomb absolutely mandatory, and Shackles will likely feature prominently in most decklists as well.
   Why is this a problem? Aside from limiting diversity and turning several gold cards into pure tech choices (Iorveth, Triss, Roche are now essentially tech cards for tournaments vs. Cow Tossers, Siege Experts etc.), it also has far more severe implications to game-rhythm and puts an even greater premium on card advantage (CA).
2. Game Rhythm becomes less Important. Most players rarely talk about rhythm, confusing it with tempo. To quickly elaborate: Game rhythm revolves around reading and predicting the ebb and flow of the match, independent of whether or not you can dictate tempo. Against some factions, rhythm plays an enormous role; think of Henselt and his hero ability - disrupting his rows and passing at the right moment throughout the 3 rounds can and will limit the impact of his hero power. You care less about tempo and more about disrupting his rhythm.
   
   With the new patch, the importance of rhythm (and, to a lesser extent, tempo) is lessened at the expense of setting up your win conditions (more on that below) and card advantage for the last round. Furthermore, the winner of round 1 will have a massive advantage, making dependency on opening hand even more crucial (see below).
   
   With the new patch, rhythm throughout the 3 rounds becomes less impactful because in many, if not all, match-ups, the last round and the last card will become all-important. Playing against Skellige? You have to save D-bomb for Hjalmar + Madman Lugos in case the opponent plays Kambi. Against any match-up running Villentretenmerth, you have to keep D-bomb to avoid the total annihilation. Against Scoia, Ele'yas will likely become a thing since Isengrim is more sticky, meaning you have to develop CA in order to D-bomb/Aeromancy Ele'yas as the last card. You get the idea. D-cards were already powerful. Now they're absolutely mandatory to have as the last card, which leads to...
3. Card Advantage (CA) will become even more Essential. Due to the above-stated, the importance of playing the last card (which was already super important but not necessarily game-deciding every time) becomes even higher. This, in turn, makes all spies and other CA cards (Ocvist, Ciri, Ciaran, Decoy for Spies etc.) even more valuable and essential, as the last played card's importance just went up. This, in turn, changes the dynamic of the game dramatically due to round 1...
4. The Game Just Got More Random. Due to the above-stated, the importance of Round 1 has increased. The winner of Round 1 can now unload spies, Ciri, other CA cards in round 2, setting up the all-important Card Advantage for Round 3. This was already the case in the current patch, but although the last card was always highly important, it was not all-important. Soon, due to the inability to directly snipe Gold Cards (such as Ciri or Villentrettenmerth) and that sniping now requires 2 cards (one to demote, one to snipe or lock), it means that the opening hand in Round 1 will become more important as well since the rhythm of the game just became less fluid and organic, and more locked into "fight for r1 -> build CA round 2 -> capitalize r3).
   This, coupled with point 2, is in my opinion a great loss. The organic and fluid rhythm was one of Gwent's greatest appeals.
5. Locking Ability is Mandatory. Locking was already a very powerful tech choice for tournaments. Cleaver was a staple sideboard card in many decks. Locking was too specialized for ladder, I think, despite never being a dead draw. However, with the upcoming patch, Locking will now become as mandatory as D-bomb and D-shackles. Having the demotion but lacking the snipe will be too costly, meaning Cleaver, now at 7 strength, will likely become an equally mandatory staple in every deck. I don't think I am exaggerating when I say that the vast majority of decks sans Nilfgaard (due to the new, very powerful Auckes and Assassination cards), will run D-bomb, 1-2 D-shackles, and Cleaver.
   I like that there is now a more direct counter to Morkvarg, but shifting Locking from being a tech choice to becoming a mandatory counter is equally problematic. Which leads to the last point...
6. Special Cards just got less.... Special. With two silver slots likely to be dedicated to countering Gold Cards (Cleaver + D-Bomb) and at least 1 D-shackles likely being at the core of most decklists, special cards just got a lot less special. Their amount will naturally be constricted due to the above-stated key cards creating spatial constraints.

Closing Thoughts on "The Ugly": I cannot claim to know exactly how the future will pan out. These are thoughts. I welcome constructive feedback. I am, however, not hopeful about the changes due to the above-stated reasons. These upcoming changes will affect core gameplay to an extent that I do not believe they are just "bad" changes that can easily be reverted. To me, this fall under "the ugly".


The Bad

1. Several Cards Unadressed. Odrin is still drunk and useless. Dandelion is not worth his silver slot considering the strength of the new Kaedweni Siege Expert. Fransesca is still a sub-par hero. Foltest is still a sub-par hero, despite Radovid nerf. Crach an Craite is still a sub-par hero overlapping with Harald the Cripple archetype of self-wounding, which Harald does better. Emhyr is still incredibly niche, and with the added importance of D-cards, his win conditions (Vanhemar, Spotters) are more vulnerable. Vicovaro Medic unchanged, making Uldaryk look bad more often than not, and remaining extremely punishing to any ressurection decks.
   
   Suggestions: I like Emhyr's ability though - he just needs the backbone support since NG is new - and maybe less dependency on Mangonels for value. For Fransesca, I would propose making her new draws become of the same type as the card she chose to redraw. Redrawing a special card yields a new special card, redrawing a unit gives a new unit from the deck. More focus, less RNG. For Crach an Craite I would propose aligning him more with the Pirate theme (although with the changes to Wild Boar of the Sea, that archetype seems buried for now, unfortunately).
2. Win Conditions will become more of a thing. With the inability to snipe cards like Isengrim, Kambi, Madman Lugos, Triss: Butterfly Spell (does the effect reverse when removed, like before? If not, disregard), win conditions became even more viable. That this is a bad thing is subjective. I ran a win condition Ele'yas deck in the SevenCatsBrawl due to the efficiency with which I could adapt tech into it and "break" the metagame since everybody expected me to run Swim Dwarves, but the above-stated cards are but a few of golds which encourage one-dimensional "meme decks"/gimmick decks revolving around setting up a specific win condition - at the expense of interactions. To me, that is not a desirable turn of events. I like that win conditions can work and can be viable (as they are now), but I dislike them becoming stronger. It reeks too much of Hearthstone.
3. Tempo options are diminished. Witchers are now a waste of 3 silver slots at 16 strength; Temerian Foot Soldier is 12 power for 3 bronze. Bran can discard Morkvarg + 2 An Craite Raiders for a 16 point tempo. Scoia can Elven Merc -> special card or King of Beggars -> Elven Merc -> Special card. NR can do the Priscilla Tequila. Monsters have several tempo options (WHR, Woodland Beast + Foglets, Crones). I would rather have seen Witchers becoming 7, 5, 5 and Crones 7, 7, 6. Witchers would be vulnerable to Epidemic and similar cards, Crones to Gigni/Scorch.
4. Weather will likely become a thing. DISCLAIMER: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH WEATHER PERSONALLY. At the MMR I play at, I never meet weather. One in 30 matches maybe. When I do, it is pretty much a free win. However, for a lot of new players I can understand both from forum and IRL friends that Weather is prevalent at lower ranks, and a supreme source of frustration. I am in favour of the incremental weather changes. Make it less binary, make Aeromancy less of an insane last-card swing, lessen the ridiculous importance of Card Advantage and the Last Card vs. decks running weather.
5. Several hard-countering archetypes remain. Right now, and presumably after patch, the Spy archetype of Nilfgaard (with John Calveit) is still an automatic loss almost by default due to consumption of spies. This is less problematic in tournaments, but on ladder it can be frustrating to a fault.

Closing Thoughts on "The Bad": Some of these aspects (certain cards) are easily addressed - and in some cases long overdue. An overall dev talk focusing on existing issues rather than "new toys", involving us players in the thought process, would be very helpful.


The Good

1. Interface and UI Improvements! Card history, the UI, all helps newer players ease into the game, and provides veterans with nice QoL changes. Indisputably great changes.
2. Things get shaken up. Despite my above stated misgivings, I cannot wait to see which new decks and archetypes emerge after the patch. I am not particularly optimistic for the patch in general, but I am very hopeful and enthusiastic about the game in general. If CDPR continues to communicate and listen to feedback whenever appropriate and useful (which is the minority of the time - stop all the "I am lvl 8 and I think..." nerf threads, okay? ), the future looks bright.
3. The Game in General. Artwork is beautiful, game's atmosphere is amazing compared to competitors, the mechanics are interesting, the metagame is intricate, tournament play is wonderful due to the lack of win conditions, diversity in tech etc... Don't change it too radically.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Mehariel]

You paint a pretty depressing picture, diversity is one of the things that attracted me to Gwent. I used to play Hearthstone and every deck at higher ranks was just 1 of 3 options.

 

[Strollin]

To be honest I think its too early to judge about shifting meta and what things will change and what not. Overall I am happy with most of the things that will come with the next patch and I hope the patch will fix some issues the current meta has.

There is one minor thing that you didnt mention that bothers me a bit and thats the vfx of cards vanishing more and more with every patch. For example Draug no longer has the unique flame-explosion and horn will no longer have the glowing yellow line which makes the game look more boring overall. I just hope they have something in mind for this and dont plan to make every single interaction look the same :/

 

[JoachimDeWett]

Have we heard the rationale behind the nerf to gold removal units ? I'd like to hear why the devs did this. I personally do not understand it and I cannot endorse it.

 

[Rawls]

To be honest I think its too early to judge about shifting meta and what things will change and what not. Overall I am happy with most of the things that will come with the next patch and I hope the patch will fix some issues the current meta has.

+1 Everyone said Nilfgaard was going to be OP before that patch and it turned out to be decent but not the most powerful deck in my eyes. Predicting the how the changes will blend is difficult for me. Having said that ... I do think the change to Iorveth, Triss, etc is unfortunate.

 

[Nimraphel]

To be honest I think its too early to judge about shifting meta and what things will change and what not. Overall I am happy with most of the things that will come with the next patch and I hope the patch will fix some issues the current meta has.

There is one minor thing that you didnt mention that bothers me a bit and thats the vfx of cards vanishing more and more with every patch. For example Draug no longer has the unique flame-explosion and horn will no longer have the glowing yellow line which makes the game look more boring overall. I just hope they have something in mind for this and dont plan to make every single interaction look the same :/

Like I mentioned, I cannot predict exactly how the future will be. I am talking about the contours and possible implications of the changes though - and although I share your belief that we should be (cautiously?) optimistic, which I am, there are certain aspects of the patch that I think will have wide-ranging and unfortunate impacts on the game.

I think it's worth discussing - and worth hopefully bringing to the developers' attention, because some of these changes are confounding; who does the changes cater to? What is their vision of the game? Have they considering the above-stated implications? If so, what is their opinion on it?

The patch has brought a lot of changes. Many good, some bad, but most of them questionable. We're in Closed Beta, so now, more than ever, is the time for these discussions and feedback. Personally I am invested in the game, and being currently situated within the Top 200, I have experienced the game and its metagame through, I dare say, all stages. From low to high rank, with all that entails. For many of these changes, I am, for the first time, fundamentally puzzled and, to a lesser extent, worried about the direction of the game - which is different than making predictions about the exact power level of a newly introduced faction.

On a sidenote, Nilfgaard, while not OP on ladder by any means, is incredibly powerful in tournaments due to its tech abilities (Sweers, Auckes, Peter, additional Vicovaro's).

 

[LadyAly]

Some of the upcoming changes are fine - but to take away the ability to hurt gold cards with other gold cards is pretty bad. It will change the game in the wrong direction - the meta decks will be looking probably all the same ( at least 4 - 5 game mechanics ). This is a decision I do not understand - the most complaints never were about this fact...

 

[Tir_na_Lia]

You paint a pretty depressing picture, diversity is one of the things that attracted me to Gwent. I used to play Hearthstone and every deck at higher ranks was just 1 of 3 options.

This.

Your argument is:
Because of point 1, point 2 comes, because of point 2, point 3 comes, etc...it looks pretty flawed to me.

Not even the devs can predict the balance of the next patch, and you claim to guess it to that extent before it even happened?

 

[Nimraphel]

This.

Your argument is:
Because of point 1, point 2 comes, because of point 2, point 3 comes, etc...it looks pretty flawed to me.

Not even the devs can predict the balance of the next patch, and you claim to guess it to that extent before it even happened?

I think you misunderstood his comment, but maybe it's me. Anyhow, yes, I believe the points are correlated.

 

[Bodach]

The meta is changing, and not many see it yet. I can't wait to test some theories.

 

[Zjiin]

Im really not liking the look of this patch, It seems like a case of 1 step forward, 2 steps backwards here.

Not being able to damage golds - Said it before and i'll say it again - I REALLY dont like this change. Cards like Iorveth and Triss are now just redundant. (Triss atleast has a bit of use being able to remove cow carcasses and stuff i guess, Iorveth is just complete crap now - hardly any better than a silver Sile, who already hardly see's use.) YenCon needed a hit with the nerf hammer with the gold change - But instead got smashed with the nerf sledgehammer repeatedly and is now just complete crap, being nearly exactly the same as a NR bronze....

Half the other nerfs/changes dont make any sense either (Keira metz and Natalis being 2 cards that have been nerfed and hardly ever saw play anyway?).

Im pretty sure the new Misbehaved Pig of the Puddle Effect is a place-holder one..but its still disappointing that its unique (albeit completely crap) ability gets changed to just a slightly buffed version of another card and becomes directly better than the said card, rather than trying to fix the unique effect. Dijkstra....im really not sure if he's actually got any better or outright worse...either way i cant see it being used.

Draugs new effect...God i hope, i really hope this doesn't become a continual thing in this game.

Dont get me wrong, some of the nerfs and changes are well deserved and good - no doubt about that. But for every good change, theres one that just doesn't make any real sense as to WHY its being done, other than change for the sake of change.

 

[SkippyHole]

I completely agree with you on most points (barring weather being balanced). Noone can know exactly what the new meta will bring, but moving towards every deck containing the same few cards, the removal of most interesting abilities (through locking), and unique and fun mechanics getting removed in favour of pure damage (Wild Boar) seems a very bad move to me.

 

[Tir_na_Lia]

I think you misunderstood his comment, but maybe it's me. Anyhow, yes, I believe the points are correlated.

No, I meant: I agree with what he wrote above.

Then I wrote my own piece.

 

[Smok1n]

Yea I think I am done until they fix this mess... They took out everything that was enjoyable about the game, and turned it into another clone of all these other card games that were out there. I mean every fun thing that made it different just got nerfed to hell, or removed.. It is funny that the thing no-one asked for is what killed the fun in the game.

 

[Archpriest]

The meta is changing, and not many see it yet. I can't wait to test some theories.

Easy. Skellige running Kambi with Lugos, for example. NR heavily Henselt Promote.
And again... Scoia'tael gets screwed. But I'll play it anyway.

 

[Shuls02]

I agree with Vicovaro Medic needing a change because he just kills most ressurect archetypes (and it's just a Bronze) and about the Golden removal I don't think it's that bad of a change since realistically only really NR and ST had a way to remove goldens (Triss was only worth it for killing Kambi) and I agree with what the devs said about Goldens not feeling too powerfull when they get sniped the turn they are played, why would 3 factions have to use at least 2 cards to remove a Golden but the other 2 factions only 1? I'm glad they did this otherwise they should have added 1 card for NG/SK/Monsters to remove golden cards as well.
I also like that they addressed the Nekkers and Mahakam Defenders that will surely shake the meta up a bit. They also hit SK pretty hard with Birna/Donar nerfs.
I think weather will become more prevalent next patch due to the positioning changes not affecting weather at all. :hmm:

 

[Shuls02]

Easy. Skellige running Kambi with Lugos, for example. NR heavily Henselt Promote.
And again... Scoia'tael gets screwed. But I'll play it anyway.

The biggest hit to ST was the Resilience balance change and it was more than needed, carrying a Bronze unit through all 3 rounds without having to use extra cards to keep it on board and keeping all the buffs form previous rounds was way too cheap tho I would have changed it so they got reset to base strength after the round ends but they remain on board for all 3 rounds.
And SK Discard got hit hard with Lock now staying on the graveyard (RIP Mork) and Birna/Donar nerfs, and also Vicovaro Medic is unchanged and with Caretaker out there (nice try Olgeird) I don't think we will see a Discard deck after the patch hits.

 

[Archpriest]

Donar nerf? What? Morvarg can be unlocked as well. But go and remove Kambi or Lugos now. With the exception of Birna, Skellige got buffed as a faction.
Scoia gets its identity removed with every parch.

 

[SkippyHole]

about the Golden removal I don't think it's that bad of a change since realistically only really NR and ST had a way to remove goldens (Triss was only worth it for killing Kambi) and I agree with what the devs said about Goldens not feeling too powerfull when they get sniped the turn they are played, why would 3 factions have to use at least 2 cards to remove a Golden but the other 2 factions only 1? I'm glad they did this otherwise they should have added 1 card for NG/SK/Monsters to remove golden cards as well.

But things like this are exactly where the uniqueness of card games come from, if everything has the same effect then why bother having factions? Already with the changes to these cards, Kaedweni Sargent seems pretty broken for being another D-shackles for one faction only. So the effect on that is going to have to be changed. Dijkstra's already been changed. Boom, two unique mechanics gone to homogenize the game a bit more.

 

[Zjiin]

The biggest hit to ST was the Resilience balance change and it was more than needed, carrying a Bronze unit through all 3 rounds without having to use extra cards to keep it on board and keeping all the buffs form previous rounds was way too cheap tho I would have changed it so they got reset to base strength after the round ends but they remain on board for all 3 rounds.
And SK Discard got hit hard with Lock now staying on the graveyard (RIP Mork) and Birna/Donar nerfs, and also Vicovaro Medic is unchanged and with Caretaker out there (nice try Olgeird) I don't think we will see a Discard deck after the patch hits.

Resurrection removes the lock (confirmed by Rethaz on reddit a few times) so Mork isnt *totally* dead, just means you'd have to spend Sig/Renew to actually bring him back - Which is deserved, as he needed a counter and it doesn't make him a "play it and forget" card. Does it make him weaker than before? Absoloutely. Unplayable? Remains to be seen how the meta adapts - Either way something had to be done about Mork and this may or may not be the right answer. (Cleaver / Auckes having their strength values buffered up by +2 each is utterly stupid though and just makes already very powerful cards even stronger in the next patch, especially with the new lock changes on top.)

Defenders weren't the big problem for the ST deck either (imo) the BIG offender was always Hawker Healer being able to generate a utterly obscene amount of value - the fact its seen a HUGE nerf to its power and still remains one of the best bronzes at a 10 strength swing is telling. Personally i think the resialiance change is potentially a harmful move, as its severely weakening one of the most accesable early on f2p decks and forcing more of the other main cheap and viable deck, weather monster, at the lower ranks - which is already majority weather monster. (god knows how weather is still a flat "Set everything in the row to 1 instantly" effect after all these changes.)