[Suggestion Thread] Weather Rework.
I feel fairly confident in saying that the game mechanic that frustrates players the most intensely is weather.
A quick glance at reddit and some of the vitriol towards the recent first light changes would suggest as much. There will of course be players that will disagree with them, those that believe that dagon decks using 8+ instances of weather are fine, others that suggest that all decks should be running 3 first lights and 3 blizzard potions before they are allowed to complain about weather and those that just don't care either way - its a divisive topic.
Whilst I agree that being able to clear all instances of weather with one bronze card that doubled as a means to pull a random bronze was flawed game play, and that the changes to first light where desperately needed, unleashing weathers full potential has made the game far less enjoyable.
I believe that opinions regarding weather are so strong and divided because it has pushed the game further toward a rock paper scissors paradigm. Deck A (rock) can deal with weather but does so at a large cost in raw power that deck B (paper) has is spades but due to forgoing weather counters is completely shut down by deck C (Scissors) which utilises a lot of weather. I personally believe that Gwent should strive to avoid this sort of A beats B beats C as it would become a shallow boring game with results predetermined before a card is drawn. If Gwent is to avoid this the weather system itself would need to receive a fairly substantial change and I wish to propose a few suggestions on how it would be possible to do so.
Before I suggest how I believe weather should be changed I feel it necessary to highlight the reasons I believe weather effects would require change. Those that already recognise the problems weather effects are having on the game may wish to skip this chunk as it is only really criticisms of the current state of things.
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First of all availability. There are many ways for a player to possess a large number of weather effects without even needing to take the bronze weather cards. Woodland spirit, Caranthir, and water hag each provide an effect whilst still providing board value. Ragh Nar Roog and the various weather silvers provide even more access to weather effects whilst concentrating them in such a way that your deck has plenty of room for unit cards. You can apply 4 weather effects to each row from 3 gold and 4 silver cards (Ragh, Caranthir, Woodland Spirit, Merrigolds, White Frost & Skellige Storm)
What this means is you can rather easily apply more instances of weather to a single row than can ever be cleared with first light which brings me to my second point - counters.
First light has been used as a thinning mechanism for various decks, most notably Scoia'Tael, those that still run FL for thinning are seriously lacking in any means to deal with weather. Now that first light only applies to a single row, stacking a single row has become very popular (Swims dwarf deck for example). Alternatively playing primarily on one row per round (Radovid deck), or playing weather itself seem to be the only effective option to climb past the weather saturated dagon decks. (2-3k elo is currently full of Dagon decks with 8+ weather applications). The consume monsters deck is perhaps the only exception though it runs at least 1 FL + Archgriffin and dagon, on top of that it runs a Kayran which combined makes the deck fairly weather immune.
The Blizzard potion doesn't really work well. Whilst you could invest in these to counter weather its sub-optimal. Ironically the decks these cards boost the most is the weather users themselves. You could run them in a deck susceptible to weather but lose a lot of power in match ups against decks that lack weather. If you are a weather player however, these potions are practically guaranteed to benefit you every single game you play as you can counter the very few weather immune units non monster players hold.
This brings me to the last problem with weather I mean to highlight - tempo. For a bronze card you would be very hard pressed to find something that can swing points as suddenly as a weather effect and the few examples that exist are no where near as consistent. The threat weather has created makes it very difficult for players to make the decision to pass even when holding a huge point lead. Regardless of whether or not either player actually holds a weather effect, the potential of a massive power swing pressures both players to keep playing till the other backs down. You could easily be 40 points up in value on your opponent, pass feeling secure and lose all those points in a single bronze card. This I feel is part of the reason the dwarf decks are doing so well right now, their opponents are hesitant to pass due to weather whilst they are happy to play on buffing their resilience laden dwarfs.
This is all before factoring in combos like ragh + epidemic wiping boards.
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Obviously removing weather from the game is not an option and reverting first light would be a massive step backward. Adding more counters to weather would help in a weather vs non weather match up but would only weaken the decks that run said counters when facing pure strength value style decks. This would just promote the rock, paper, scissors paradigm I mentioned earlier which I believe to be terrible game balance. I feel therefore that the effect a weather card applies should be changed, and propose the following suggestions:-
1. Have weather remove a set amount of base strength to all units on the row lacking weather immunity/gold status. This would have the positive effect of lowering the instant swing a weather card produces but at the cost of reducing the system down into a glorified lacerate, on top of that first light would become redundant.
2. Have weather remove a set amount of strength each turn to all applicable units on the row until the effect is removed. Similar to how Yennefer: the conjurer functions, all units on a row affected by weather would be dealt damage (for example 2 damage) each turn for as long as the weather effect remains. The benefit of this change is that players with significant point leads could pass knowing that if a weather effect is applied the hypothetical trio of Blue stripe commandos buffed up to 15 strength a piece with a thunderbolt pot won't be reduced to 3 measly points in a single biting frost card should said hypothetical NR player pass. Weather effects themselves would still remain very powerful and enjoyable to use, first light would remove the weather effect but not restore the damage dealt. Ice Giant and Sarah may need to be tweaked. A 1:1 card exchange becomes an even exchange, the silver and gold weather cards would not be completely countered by a single bronze. This is what I believe to be the best direction.
3. Introduce a limit to the number of weather effects that can be played per game/round. This would only inhibit the weather spam decks. I've seen this suggested but felt that it didn't really tackle the real problem that weather has caused.
That's all the ideas I have been able to conjure perhaps someone else has other suggestions to add?
To those that read this in its entirety Thank you for taking the time!
I feel fairly confident in saying that the game mechanic that frustrates players the most intensely is weather.
A quick glance at reddit and some of the vitriol towards the recent first light changes would suggest as much. There will of course be players that will disagree with them, those that believe that dagon decks using 8+ instances of weather are fine, others that suggest that all decks should be running 3 first lights and 3 blizzard potions before they are allowed to complain about weather and those that just don't care either way - its a divisive topic.
Whilst I agree that being able to clear all instances of weather with one bronze card that doubled as a means to pull a random bronze was flawed game play, and that the changes to first light where desperately needed, unleashing weathers full potential has made the game far less enjoyable.
I believe that opinions regarding weather are so strong and divided because it has pushed the game further toward a rock paper scissors paradigm. Deck A (rock) can deal with weather but does so at a large cost in raw power that deck B (paper) has is spades but due to forgoing weather counters is completely shut down by deck C (Scissors) which utilises a lot of weather. I personally believe that Gwent should strive to avoid this sort of A beats B beats C as it would become a shallow boring game with results predetermined before a card is drawn. If Gwent is to avoid this the weather system itself would need to receive a fairly substantial change and I wish to propose a few suggestions on how it would be possible to do so.
Before I suggest how I believe weather should be changed I feel it necessary to highlight the reasons I believe weather effects would require change. Those that already recognise the problems weather effects are having on the game may wish to skip this chunk as it is only really criticisms of the current state of things.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
First of all availability. There are many ways for a player to possess a large number of weather effects without even needing to take the bronze weather cards. Woodland spirit, Caranthir, and water hag each provide an effect whilst still providing board value. Ragh Nar Roog and the various weather silvers provide even more access to weather effects whilst concentrating them in such a way that your deck has plenty of room for unit cards. You can apply 4 weather effects to each row from 3 gold and 4 silver cards (Ragh, Caranthir, Woodland Spirit, Merrigolds, White Frost & Skellige Storm)
What this means is you can rather easily apply more instances of weather to a single row than can ever be cleared with first light which brings me to my second point - counters.
First light has been used as a thinning mechanism for various decks, most notably Scoia'Tael, those that still run FL for thinning are seriously lacking in any means to deal with weather. Now that first light only applies to a single row, stacking a single row has become very popular (Swims dwarf deck for example). Alternatively playing primarily on one row per round (Radovid deck), or playing weather itself seem to be the only effective option to climb past the weather saturated dagon decks. (2-3k elo is currently full of Dagon decks with 8+ weather applications). The consume monsters deck is perhaps the only exception though it runs at least 1 FL + Archgriffin and dagon, on top of that it runs a Kayran which combined makes the deck fairly weather immune.
The Blizzard potion doesn't really work well. Whilst you could invest in these to counter weather its sub-optimal. Ironically the decks these cards boost the most is the weather users themselves. You could run them in a deck susceptible to weather but lose a lot of power in match ups against decks that lack weather. If you are a weather player however, these potions are practically guaranteed to benefit you every single game you play as you can counter the very few weather immune units non monster players hold.
This brings me to the last problem with weather I mean to highlight - tempo. For a bronze card you would be very hard pressed to find something that can swing points as suddenly as a weather effect and the few examples that exist are no where near as consistent. The threat weather has created makes it very difficult for players to make the decision to pass even when holding a huge point lead. Regardless of whether or not either player actually holds a weather effect, the potential of a massive power swing pressures both players to keep playing till the other backs down. You could easily be 40 points up in value on your opponent, pass feeling secure and lose all those points in a single bronze card. This I feel is part of the reason the dwarf decks are doing so well right now, their opponents are hesitant to pass due to weather whilst they are happy to play on buffing their resilience laden dwarfs.
This is all before factoring in combos like ragh + epidemic wiping boards.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
Obviously removing weather from the game is not an option and reverting first light would be a massive step backward. Adding more counters to weather would help in a weather vs non weather match up but would only weaken the decks that run said counters when facing pure strength value style decks. This would just promote the rock, paper, scissors paradigm I mentioned earlier which I believe to be terrible game balance. I feel therefore that the effect a weather card applies should be changed, and propose the following suggestions:-
1. Have weather remove a set amount of base strength to all units on the row lacking weather immunity/gold status. This would have the positive effect of lowering the instant swing a weather card produces but at the cost of reducing the system down into a glorified lacerate, on top of that first light would become redundant.
2. Have weather remove a set amount of strength each turn to all applicable units on the row until the effect is removed. Similar to how Yennefer: the conjurer functions, all units on a row affected by weather would be dealt damage (for example 2 damage) each turn for as long as the weather effect remains. The benefit of this change is that players with significant point leads could pass knowing that if a weather effect is applied the hypothetical trio of Blue stripe commandos buffed up to 15 strength a piece with a thunderbolt pot won't be reduced to 3 measly points in a single biting frost card should said hypothetical NR player pass. Weather effects themselves would still remain very powerful and enjoyable to use, first light would remove the weather effect but not restore the damage dealt. Ice Giant and Sarah may need to be tweaked. A 1:1 card exchange becomes an even exchange, the silver and gold weather cards would not be completely countered by a single bronze. This is what I believe to be the best direction.
3. Introduce a limit to the number of weather effects that can be played per game/round. This would only inhibit the weather spam decks. I've seen this suggested but felt that it didn't really tackle the real problem that weather has caused.
That's all the ideas I have been able to conjure perhaps someone else has other suggestions to add?
To those that read this in its entirety Thank you for taking the time!
