Revert weather changes

[dobikuba]

Revert weather changes

I've seen a few topics raising different (all valid) concerns about the new weather system.
Here's all of mine:

1: The new system goes in the face of all logic: I can't imagine a situation where frost is only on one half of the battlefield, or rain falls only on one army. What made weather cards interesting was their two-sidedness, that they had to be carefully placed.

2: Weather resistance makes sense, and right now wild hunt is also suffering from frost, etc. I feel like a lot of logic was sacrificed on the altar of streamlining, which makes the game less engaging.

3: Being able to put any weather on any row makes little sense, It's not harder to fight up close in fog, for example.

4: The weather system was one of the great pillars of Gwent's uniqueness, with all of it's difficulty and game changing abilities. Streamlining it to be just another debuff is shooting the game in the foot.

And I think the following compromise could work: Keep it two-sided, and keep it row-specific, but change it to the new DoT effects it now has. This way it doesn't stay a main focus of decks, and a complete gamechanger, but stays realistic(engaging) and simple in it's own way.

Feel free to add arguments into the mix below.

 

[kaalev]

The only thing I agree on is the weather resistance. It was uncalled for to have it stripped away from every unit. But the rest of weather changes are looking good to me. It was a bother having to keep 3 types of weather cards in closed beta. I'd rather not go through that again.

Besides, say you keep 2 weather cards per row (more is hurting your deck too much). Opponent clears weather on one row twice and just stacks all his units there. What then? There's always 2 sides of the story and I prefer the convenience of using any weather card on any row.

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[4RM3D]

The old weather had issues. The new weather has different issue. While I agree with your points. Reverting weather is not the solution.

But let's first see how the meta goes before we delve into this.

 

[Marktheshark04]

I think the new weather mechanic is better than the old, but not perfect yet.

 

[Araerris]

I am a touch biased towards the old weather effects. I enjoyed the strategy of working with where to place weather so that it best suited your own deck while inhibiting the opponent. I also was a monster deck user who stocked up on weather immune units.

While it IS still early in the open beta I still feel that points should be brought out as they appear and are fresh in the mind. This allows not only myself but potentially others to review, experiment and decide how they feel about the current strategy and whether or not it needs amending.

The pro's I am seeing with the new weather system:

1.) Damage per turns, I find this does increase the strategy by simply crippling units a few points instead of making them easily wiped out with a laceration after being affected by weather. That was also one of my main strategies and am now finding I need a different approach with the new system in place.

2.) Boosted damage of weather via skills from cards - I love this, and if you're a huge fan of using weather against your opponent then this plays an additional role of thinking ahead. I still need to play more to determine if the boosts remain even after the card providing the boost has been removed.

3.) Monsters boosted by the weather don't have to be ON the weather tile, it just has to be on the battlefield.

That being said, I have two suggestions to help make the current weather system more enjoyable and strategic:

1.) Allow element based cards immunity to their element i.e the ice giant should in my opinion be immune to the weather effects of the biting frost, just as foglets should (Need to actually test this theory on foglets myself however I'll assume they don't have immunity in this instance.) To me it just doesn't make sense that a monster who should live in such a climate would be damaged by it.

2.) Remove (or amend) the huge number of cards that may be placed *Anywhere* on the board. While some may argue this adds to the strategy, it instead makes the use of weather cards moot. Unless that is you intend players to have a horde of weather cards in their deck so as to affect all 3 rows - which of course would then also prompt the keeping of clear skies.



Thank you to all who read <3

 

[merim_10]

Maximum 3 weather cards in deck = problem solved.

 

[IAxiiYourMother]

I think weather is too accessible to everyone, too strong, and to dependent on having that 1 card answer. Give it good synergy with Wildhunt, but make it less optimal than other control options for others. I miss the symmetry and weather resistant units.

 

[dobikuba]

How about making a single "bad weather" card, that targets both sides of one row, and does the new frost DoT effect? It would make the appropriate bad weather for the row, for immersion.

Tactics remain distributing your cards across all rows, and "hugging" the opponent, which can be countered with moving, recalling, igni...

This remains simple (not having 3 different weather cards that can be put on whichever row= 9 options), and logical. Couple this with bringing back resistance. The seeming overpoweredness of the card is balanced by it's smaller effect (DoT), it's twosidedness, moving, and the more common ability to choose rows. (Although I would cull the latter a bit)

 

[Korrah]

The new one sided weather mechanic is surely debatable, i agree with the OP, as a military enthusiast i find it weird that the enemy positions are flooded after the torrential rain card is played yet my lanes remain dry. there is no such thing as asymmetric weather conditions. in addition, if both players used weather cards against each other, the clear sky effect will clear only one side of the field, like if the sun was shining only for one of us. xD. That feels almost as if the opponent is somewhere else and not in this particular field of battle (round). the fact this weather mechanic goes against the game's story lore (Like Wild hunt being vulnerable to frost) is another side of the problem. well, i like to keep the game logical and appropriate

dobikuba, in my opinion a single card for weather would be way too simplifield. after all we are all used for the weather cards from the original game. some like to use weather cards, some do not, but removing two of them is not the way to deal with the balance issue.

Anyway, I suggest to the game designers to consider returning the weather system that would affect both players, and keep the game concept closer to the original Gwent from Witcher that the players loved so much

 

[Nilth]

I totally agree. It is way way less strategic and interesting now.
They took one really interesting mechanics, threw it out of the window, and replaced it with a plain debuff for the opponent.
I really don't know how they could do such a bad choice.

 

[kaalev]

I've changed my mind. There's no more tactical play involved with weather. You just spam it to get the best value out of the cards in 1st_2nd rounds and opponent just spams clear skies. Then on 3rd round you simply lose to 20 str spotters or protectors or some retarded 25 str gold card, whereas you draw now a worthless weather card. I prefered the old weather that was always useful.

 

[dobikuba]

Saw this argument elsewhere, would iterate on it:

It is a very boring mechanic to have cards like Rag Na Roog and Drought that simply are a better version of existing weather cards, and target all opposing rows. At that point, since they are only opposing row (nobody knows how the end of the world or a drought could be happening only on one half of a battlefield), the opponent has basically the option to pass or to clear skies.

They made it so that even more so than before, you always have to have at least 2 clear skies in your deck, because of such win buttons.

The ironic thing I find is that the trailers for the individual factions that came out simultaneously to the open beta show weather resistance and tactics related to it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpQGL0BgJAs&t

So I fail to understand how this terrible choice came to be. I can only speculate that they are trying to either:
Test this particular meta before changing it to something reasonable- which is dumb to do right at the beginning of beta, and potentially turn players away from the game.
OR, they are trying to pull some PR stunt wherein they give us something shitty, we whine, and they can fix it like the fan-listening heroes they are.

 

[Kharr]

I think the biggest problems with the weather system right now:

Use first light or bust - Having to play mandatory cards is a bad sign for balancing imo. Little do improve here unless weather itself is changed or you hand out more weather clearing effects to other cards. Immune boost is way better than before, but it's not very versatile.

Rally is a dice throw - huge random factor involved in this card. And since you usually play it later on it can make or break the round/game. You can try to play around a bad hand but you can't play around having the chance to draw the right or wrong unit.

Weather is for anyone - You can't predict who's gonna play weather cards anymore. You pretty much have to assume anyone is having a draught on hand. So better not mulligan that first light away, never, ever. (Well unless you're playing some northern realms armor stuff)



Alternatives
This is a bit more theoretical but I really want to get it off my chest:
I think the weather related mechanic in the monster fraction are the first step in the right direction, but other steps should follow. Why not instead of making weather bland damage dealing cards, make them soley the base for combos and synergies?

First of, get rid of weather damage, instead make the effects indirect.
Frost: units effected by frost can only gain up to two strength at a time
Rain: units effected by rain cannot deal damage to other units
Fog: timers take one round longer to resolve on units affected by fog
Drought: Units can't gain strength. All damage dealt to affected units reduces their base strength by that amount. (can't get lower than one)
Rag Nar Roog: Affected unis take double damage

These are just some random examples from the top of my head I'm tossing out here, there are a million ways to do this properly.

And then hand out more weather related effects.
Deal (additional) damage to unit affected by a certain weather.
Have a faster timers through the presence of weather.
Gain strength for all enemy (or even own) units affected by a certain weather.
Boost a weather effect with a special/unit, maybe with damage, maybe amplify something.
Again, just some very basic ideas for concepts, there are so many ways to do this. I even think you don't need to redesing everything, just add some effects on top of the existing cards.

This way, weather itself becomes nothing more than a situational interrupt, but at the same time a base for combos and synergies. So you'd still have the mindgames around playing, removing and dealing with weather, while giving both sides many more options on how to play around and with weather.

 

[TUKAN_SAM]

I agree with the OP that the original weather mechanic required FAR more strategy because it impacted both armies. I don't mind the new DoT effect, but being only one-sided, in my opinion, makes the game less interesting and less engaging.

I also don't much care for a weather effect being placed in any lane. Part of the fun of deck building was looking at the strength of your deck and choosing weather cards for your weak lanes in the hopes of hurting your enemy's strong lanes.

Lastly, I also greatly miss unit weather immunities. It just doesn't make any thematic sense for the Wild Hunt to take damage from Biting Frost, or drowners to take damage from rain. In my mind, if the cards don't contain any thematic elements that relate them to their "real-life" counterparts, then they are just cards with abilities that could be called anything and given any artwork. I miss seeing a drowner and having an idea of what to expect.

Of course, just my two cents. Keep up the great work CDPR! I'm sure you'll get everything squared away.