Oda Sandayu, or Sandayu Oda?

[Madae]

Had a pretty heated debate in the discord over this. Strangely, haven't seen this brought up before that I've found, and no one has seemed to notice, or care.

So, for background purposes, we're probably aware that the Japanese tend to use surname first when referring to someone, as a formality, unless you're a good friend or related in some way (marriage/family). This might imply that his first name is Sandayu... but, this is the kicker; if that is the case, he is probably the only one in the game that does this flip flop.

Take the Arasaka's; very few (or no one) says Arasaka Saburo, or Arasaka Hanako, or Arasaka Yorinobu... it's just Saburo, Hanako, or Yorinobu, sometimes -sama. What about Wakako? We hear her first name most often, and I believe only Takemura calls her Okada-san. Speaking of Goro, he's a unique case, because I naturally default to just calling him Takemura, it was used more often than Goro and I just got used to it. V calls him Goro occasionally, Johnny calls him Takemura (maybe both, I forget).

Now here's where it gets strange; Takemura refers to Oda by his (supposedly) first name, Oda refers to Takemura as Takemura-san (at least in the docks meeting). Oda has mentioned Yorinobu-sama, and Arasaka-sama (meant for Hanako). If his first name is Sandayu, why the flip flop? In fact, I don't believe anyone ever mentions Sandayu in the game outside of maybe some shards or whatever. Oda is practically Goro's only friend that we see, outside of V and maybe Saburo, and yet Goro does not respect formality between himself and Oda, and often others... why the difference?

What compounds this issue even more is that the 2077 wiki has pages on "Goro Takemura", "Hanako Arasaka", and then "Oda Sandayu", not "Sandayu Oda". If you google it, you will more often than not see people flipping his name and referring to him as Sandayu Oda - which I believe is the unusual response of not accepting the possibility that his first name could be Oda (because of Oda being a famous last name that even westerners know) and out of misled respect and formality, insist on reversing it because they know the Japanese do... but, even though Oda is well known, it's not necessarily only a surname, just like Sandayu can technically be a first or last name (supposedly).

It's confusing, but I assure you, it's not as simple as it looks. Japanese naming conventions are hard to follow, and strangely enough, sometimes they don't even follow their own rules in one way or another... but for simplicities sake, and logically, if the game is going to refer to the many Japanese characters in the game by their first name most of the time, would that not imply that his first name is Oda and not Sandayu? We can make the argument that V, and mostly everyone else in Night City, are not Japanese and therefore they are either being rude or incompetent, or maybe the formality of this aspect in Japan has waned leading up to 2077, or maybe the Japanese tend to be fine with the "disrespect" that everyone outside of Japan refers to them by western standards... who really knows...

Yes, it's quite possibly the most inane argument ever conceived, but it's frustratingly curious to me why Oda is the odd man out here, and why everything inside the game points to one thing, and everything outside of the game points to another.

 

[Boonatron]

A quick Google would clear this up instantly. Oda is a surname and Sandayuu is a given name.

While it is true that much of Asia has the convention of family name first, Japan usually flips it to the western pattern for international dealings. Furthermore Japan recently flipped official government documents to the western pattern. Academic documents for internal use retain the original system.

A reference can be found <here.> however most of this article is behind a paywall.

While on the topic South Korea uses the traditional system still. So in the name, Song So Mi the given name is So Mi {also Somi) which can mean several things but is complimentary.

 

[Madae]

A quick Google would clear this up instantly. Oda is a surname and Sandayuu is a given name.

I have found some references that states the opposite, and that they can be interchangeable. It's hard to tell whether or not these references would be legitimate or not, though (the vast majority do favor Sandayu, that is true). It would be interesting to see something like a census that shows people with a first or last name that might be fairly uncommon as a precedent for whether or not someone can have a surname as a first name regardless of the history, and vice versa. Perhaps similar to how Nguyen was adopted by a vast majority of people in Vietnam, perhaps one family just decided to change their name and that's what carried on through the ages?

This also still doesn't explain why the game is so inconsistent. Perhaps it's because Oda sounds "cool" and is easier to say than Sandayu? I've also found some references that people just randomly decide to call people by their last name too, despite not necessarily having a good reason to do it. It hurts my brain to think about it.

At any rate, it's not something I'm wholly invested in, and I don't really care one way or the other, it's just odd how CDPR decided to do this.

 

[Boonatron]

The same thing happens in English speaking countries. In school, work or the armed forces people use the surname with equals. It's usually with men though. People might say "hey Jonesy" so as not to come accross as too familiar.

 

[Madae]

The same thing happens in English speaking countries. In school, work or the armed forces people use the surname with equals. It's usually with men though. People might say "hey Jonesy" so as not to come accross as too familiar.

The thing I always end up thinking about is how rarely the Arasaka's are casually referred to by their last name, even though they are in a position to expect formality, especially by the people closest to them, but then I think about how having several different people and a corporation that bears the name might be utterly confusing to people if these naming conventions were respected, while also being tediously longwinded for the sake of it.

For example, when V is talking to T-Bug after seeing the murder; "Arasaka Yorinobu just off'd Arasaka Saburo!..", which is not something that just rolls off the tongue... heh. How would you expect Oda or Goro to describe that encounter and repeat that same line?

Which does bring me back to that one instance where Oda refers to Hanako as "Arasaka-sama", and Yorinobu as "Yorinobu-sama" in the same conversation... or maybe that was Takemura. Ugh.

But I digress. Still somewhat fascinating, though.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Nope, in english (and in french too), V just say to T-Bug > "Yoribonu... just offed Saburo"
Beside, as far as I remember, V always or mostly use first names > Goro, Johnny, Saburo, Yorinobu, Oda, Hanako, Wakako,... The only times V say "Arasaka" for example, it's to really point out the name in particular.

Spoiler: At the right time

So just my point of view, Oda is "Oda's first name", there is no doubt for me. In french at least, each times characters are refered to their first or last name in dialogues, it make sense depending of the situation, who say it or how it's said. No issue at all for me.

 

[Madae]

Nope, in english (and in french too), V just say to T-Bug > "Yoribonu... just offed Saburo"

That's not the point I was trying to make. If you read the paragraph before it, I'm pointing out how ridiculous it would be if it was said that way, as an example (as in, I'm well aware that what you said is the correct quote, but again, not the point), assuming everyone was following a formality or everything in the game was trying to be consistent... which it isn't.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

That's not the point I was trying to make. If you read the paragraph before it, I'm pointing out how ridiculous it would be if it was said that way, as an example (as in, I'm well aware that what you said is the correct quote, but again, not the point), assuming everyone was following a formality or everything in the game was trying to be consistent... which it isn't.

In fact, in "Oda's case", I guess it's because Goro always and only say "Oda" whenever he talk about his friend, so no way to anyone to know Oda's last name.
Beside, not sure when it is not consistent... from my point of view (in french/english) it's pretty consistent and first/last names are well used in the context of dialogues.

 

[Madae]

In fact, in "Oda's case", I guess it's because Goro always and only say "Oda" whenever he talk about his friend, so no way to anyone to know Oda's last name.
Beside, not sure when it is not consistent... from my point of view (in french/english) it's pretty consistent and first/last names are well used in the context of dialogues.

Yeah I thought that was weird that he only ever calls him Oda, when you think he might go by his first name because of their relationship - damaged, but at least respectful enough not to betray confidence (like Oda not setting up a trap). You also don't hear his first name used, afaik, so the only way to know what it is, at least in the English version, is to scan him apparently. Also Goro may only ever call Hanako, Yorinobu and Saburo by their first names, but that may be because they don't want to cause a bunch of confusion, like "Arasaka-sama?" would have to be figured out through context of the conversation which Arasaka-sama they are talking about... which seems oddly informal to me knowing the Japanese, maybe even insulting... but maybe they are just fine with a lot of pen-names, though.... I dunno. Probably reading into this far too much.