Respectfully, you guys know Witcher unuverse's fanbase is nearly 1/2 teamTriss. You guys explained in the past that you made this mod about Yennefer's wedding because you think Yen is a canon choice. Also, you added Triss-Eskel, which many people knew was just fanship (like Roche-Ciri, Zoltan-Geralt ships), and many people hate it. So, clearly, you guys made this mod without thinking about teamTriss which means you guys probably already know some people will criticize or dismiss your work. That's our right, and you should be ready for it.I wouldn't say that for simple reason. I have no proof of that
And this changes what? Sapkowski also said that "The Lady of the Lake" is the end and there will be no continuation, yet CDPR made some great games which we love and many people consider them as their headcanon continuation. I don't see why some things from "SE, SB" can't be adapted in a way that treat itself seriously. Like Eskel and Triss thing.
Yet highlights Eskel's nice gentleman feature he shows Triss. When we put together this with his attitude towards Triss in TW1 (he trusts her despite what he thinks about sorceresses), it's something to build on. I wrote "slightly built", not "they are meant to be together since BoE".
And this is another reason that Eskel isn't sure that Triss could be with him and he tells that to Geralt in our adventure. For the player to think through and choose. Can Triss be free of Geralt? What would has to happen to make it so? Is Eskel enough? Is Triss a good choice for Eskel? Is it, as you said, a delusion, because Eskel just lost his mentor and seeks some relationship to fix a hole?
In the trilogy players got a choice to be with Triss, even if Geralt's only choice was always Yen. And players who think Geralt and Triss don't belong together can choose that. And if you think Eskel and Triss don't belong together, then choose this. It's not fixed ending, we made a choice there for purpose. Because we are aware of everything you states. And we mentioned all of it in our adventure. But we think that there is enough between those two to make their relationship possible and that there are people who thinks similarly (and from the comments we recieved there are at least some).
Yennefer is not a canon wife. Yennefer's future with Geralt is not canon. Her past is canon. I think Geralt-Yennefer relationship in books always implies why Geralt shouldn't choose a toxic relationship. Books always talk about their toxic relationship. If someone read books, they would definitely choose Triss because book readers know how toxic Yen relationship is. That's my interruption. See. Nothing is canon. Nobody can say, "Geralt's future wife is Yennefer." Everybody has their own interruption.
With this mod, you clearly explained that you only care about people who have the same interruption as you. You guys could create two paths, like in the real Witcher 2 game. Triss and Yennefer paths like Roche and Iorveth paths. In the Yennefer path, Triss could go with Eskel; in the Triss path, Yennefer could go with Isredd, etc. (Btw. Istredd thing have canon backup. Not fanfic like Eskel.) In this way, you would create a mod for everyone, and nobody would dismiss it like me. But you guys chose another way. Now we are here discussing it. I think one day witcher community should learn how to respect others' opinions. Besides, SESB is not an alternative ending, just a joke (eg. Vasemir is alive). There can't be an alternative ending. I am not here to discuss the Eskel thing. I will share the link. I found it on Reddit, and it explains everything. Here: Triss-Eskel
Anyway, I know it's off topic. I am not here to discuss fanships or other things. I just saw you said something wrong, and I explained.
I am not here to offend your mod. I'm just here to share my feelings about it. That's why forums exist, right? My thoughts about your mod:
Sorry, you guys didn't make this mod for everyone. You just did it for people who have the same opinion as you. This mod is not for me. I am sorry, but I will never play your mod. I will never support your mod. I didn't like it. Sorry.
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In my experience, it's more 70/30, but I assume we are both in specific fanbase bubbles and don't really know how the statistics go, so I wouldn't use this as any reliable argument.
And she is, AS made her Geralt's Lady till the end of canon story, which is LotL. And more important, Yen is our choice in games, closer to our hearts, so we simply wanted to make it about her and Geralt.
Yes, you are correct, it is a ship from the fandom and I never said it wasn't. But as I said, it is based on those very little things from BoE and games that everyone can interpret in their own way. We also did interpret this as a romantic possibility, so we did include this as an option, if someone thought alike.
Any aspect of our adventure can be criticized and we encourage to do so, this is why Enhanced Edition is in development and we are adressing there three major things that fandom brought to us and were in line with our vision, we saw there room for improvement. But the presence of romance for Eskel and Triss isn't something that will be changed, it is very subjective, some people like it, some people can't stand it, it is usual way of things and we are aware of it. Yet we can still show our point of view for this choice, and this also can be criticized or prayed.
We were ready for this from Day 0, of course. And it implies that we did indeed think about team Triss and their reaction. But, to answer second quote, I think the most important one, the case is, we couldn't create two paths. Yen's path took much more time from us than we expected, and Triss version would have to be entirely different. Like very, very different, because many times, even in the scenes not involving Yen and Geralt together, we based huge amount of content on the past life of Geralt and Yen. Yes, it would be like Roche and Iorweth paths, but we had no real possibility to do such huge two different paths. Just like we didn't incorporate other decisions from the games, it just would be too much for us to make. So we chose like we would choose in the games and shared with the community what grew in our heads and on our computers with hope we will bring some joy to at least some witcher fans. It wasn't a matter of choice for us, it was either "we are doing something from our hearts and publishing it", or "we are not making anything, because there will always be someone that won't agree with our choices" (which is completely fine and we were aware of that, day 0).
And funny thing is, Witcher 2 has great two paths, but only one romance with basically yes or no choice. I remember Shani fans really upset about that. I still think it was a poor choice to not include her, yet in my opinion TW2 is the best witcher game to this day.
She is a canon love of Geralt. The interpretation may go to the point if she should be, based on her personality, and it is totally a valid point to discuss, but the fact is Geralt and Yen ended the journey together on the Malus Island in canon story.
You say that this is your interpretation that Yen with Geralt is toxic, and it is sure a valid opinion, but you also write that if someone read the books, they will definitely choose Triss. If someone has interpretation like you, yes, they will definitely, but if everybody has their own interpretation, then there will be plenty of people to choose Yen, because they will see in their character something that they will like. Or they will think she is ideal for Geralt.
"Geralt's futue wife is Yennefer" - of course this isn't canon, there is no wedding in canon, no known future for those two. The story ends on the Island with Geralt and Yen together. Any other continuation is either a fan-fiction, like the games, of the joke, like "Something Ends, Something Begins".
"Nothing is canon" - 8 books are. And considerably the short story with Visenna. Everything happened in there is canon. We can argue if it is good, if either of it should happen as AS wrote it, we can make our own infinite headcanons, but the story is fixed, we know who canonically is the love of Geralt.
We care about all the fans, we are just aware that the mod may not be for everyone. Yet many team Triss players tried it and came to us with some valid points about the whole experience, with pros and cons of it, and simultaneously knowing that is isn't their story for Geralt. And we never said that every witcher fan, including teams non-Yen, should play it and should finish it, because they will find things that will appeal to everyone. We don't now that, everyone see different things in The Witcher. One will forgive us the lack of the choice of Triss or other Geralt's lovers, but for many people the Geralt-Triss relationship will be such an important thing that they will never try the mod and that is ok. We made what we could, from the bottom of our hearts, prepared that it will not satisfy everyone. But it doesn't mean we don't care about fans that made other choices. This mod isn't our manifesto, it's the path for Geralt we wanted to see and were able to make from point A to Z.
I bet someone has an interpretation that Yen never loved Istredd. But yes, I agree with you, Istredd were canonically Yen's love at some point and would be a very interesting gameplay choice, if someone would want to explore such story.
There is no such thing and I think every content creator has to know this before they will publish anything. Nothing will please everyone. The things are made for everyone to enjoy, of course, but there will always be something that won't be liked, that will be criticized. If we would include Triss, Shani's fans aren't happy. Fringilla's aren't happy. Fans of action RPG or character development, builds, won't be satisfted by our mod at all. There will always be something and it can't keep someone from doing what they love and what they want to share with the world.
I very much respect your opinion, you don't like our mod, especially Triss-Eskel possibility of romance, because you chose Triss, you think she is better choice for Geralt and you see no valid point for Eskel and Triss to be together. All solid perspectives, that's the path of your Witcher, it is as valuable as mine or anybody's else.
If you felt that I did not respect your opinion at any point, that was never my intention.
Vesemir is never stated dead in the books, so his presence isn't exactly the argument for SESB to be non-canon. But Sapkowski's words are, and as I wrote in previous posts, we are aware of SESB status. But we think that something that started as a joke can be reinterpreted, heavily modified and adapted to be a serious fan-made continuation for canon story and games' fan-fiction. That is why, among other things, Vesemir isn't alive in our mod, we wanted to keep the continuity from the games, or at least one specific path of choices, to make FotWW believable within overall story.
And thank you for that, discussing things is always a great thing.
We made the mod for everyone, we just were aware that some Witcher fans wouldn't want to play it for many reasons, Triss, voiceover, rather rare action segments, fan-made, wedding theme, quasi-anthology format, there are plenty. You don't have to be sorry, as I said, we were prepared for the criticism and we know which of our choices caused your opinion. We are fully aware of them, yet we still stand by them as we think they were good choices in overall for our adventure, as you stand by your opinion. The point is, we absolutely didn't make this mod to show that we doesn't care about some group of fans and this is something that is not true.
Sure, I didn't say it was a real argument. I said nearly. I don't know a specific number, and I think nobody knows it. But, based on internet discussions, I think we can say that team Yen and team Triss have the biggest place in the Witcher fanbase.
Nobody claimed Yen and Geralt's past was non-canon. Everybody knows their past is canon. If Yen is closer to your heart and Yen is your choice in games, well, thats great. I am not against that. Nobody should be against that.
Don't take it offensive, but are you guys adding every fanship to your mod? Eskel-Triss doesn't have a place in game canon or book canon. You said it already. The BoE handkiss thing, etc. is your interpretation. You know, maybe other guys think Roche and Ciri have feelings for each other and they could be a couple because of their interpretation. Other guys might think Letho had a feelings for Yen (for example, in Witcher 2, Letho said Yennefer was trying to seduce Auckes. Maybe she did the same thing for Letho?) and when Letho saw Yen and Geralt's wedding, he would be so upset, and maybe he would try s*icide huh? Thats another guy's interpretation. You accepted that Triss-Eskel is in the same class as Roche-Ciri, etc. Why didn't you include those fanships? Few people have interpretation about those ships, and I guarantee you that if you talk with them, they can clearly find more empty hints for their ships than Triss-Eskel. Why didn't you add more fanships? Why just Triss-Eskel?
It's great to make mods about your choices in Witcher 3. I am not against that, as I said. I am not against works about Yennefer-Geralt. The Roche-Iroveth path was just a suggestion. I don't know how much time or effort you guys have to spend on this game. But, as you said, you knew how Team Triss would react. Then you added fanship which you guys clearly know they hate. Didn't you think they would be angry because of it? Under this thread, this Eskel-Triss thing was discussed by other guys in 2016. You clearly know Team Triss hates this fanship. If you want everybody to enjoy your mod, then why have you guys added this fanship? You guys don't have to spend more time making another path for Triss. By just not adding this fanship, you could show everyone how much you care about other fans who don't support your opinion and how you made your mod enjoyable for everyone. But you chose another way.
Here's another funny thing. In Witcher 3, we can see Yennefer for 3.5 hours. What about Triss? Just 2 hour
Their past's are canon. Nobody would say something against that. I said it already. As you said, in books, their story ended on the Malus Island.
I shared my interruption, as you said. I never push someone to think that Yennefer is a bad choice for Geralt. Everybody has their own interruption. But, yes, books are canon, but saying SESB, your mod or other fanfics are in the same class as W1, W2, and W3? How can you say that? Yes, games are not canon as books, but saying games are in the same class as fanfic written as a joke and a friend's wedding? Isn't that too much? Reds bought (correct me if I'm wrong; I know it's discussable) Witcher name copyrights before W1. You mean, they bought it, but they are not official writers? Let's assume Reds didn't buy Witcher copyrights. How could you put your mod or other fanfics in the same class as the official Witcher games? You mean your mod is in the same class as the whole Witcher 3 game?
You know, I think we are talking about the same things again and again. I don't have a problem with what your heart says or what your opinion is about the Witcher universe. Making mod about Geralt and Yennefer's wedding is great. If you do that, it doesn't mean you don't care about other people's reactions. But when you add other fanship to your mod that other people would hate, that means you don't care about other people. I would definitely play your mod if you did not add this nonsensical fanship to it. But you added it even though you know how Triss fans hate this fanship. It means you don't care about others opinions or what others think.
Definitely, it's open to interpretation. I am not here to discuss it. I just said if you could make a path for Triss-Geralt's wedding, you could add Yen-Istredd as a couple. But we've discussed it already. I just gave you an example.
Same thing again. I will give a quick answer because I wrote so much about it in my comment. I didn't say make every fan happy. Without adding the Triss-Eskel ship, which would make Triss fans unhappy, you could show how you respect others opinions and how you respect people have different opinions, and then everybody can enjoy your mod. But you chose the opposite.
Thanks for your respect. I am not against your mod. I just hate it because you added this nonsensical ship. I would definitely play and enjoy your mod if you didn't add this thing. But I don't like it right now.
Based on books we know Geralt and Yennefer (maybe) dead. So, how SESB can be alternative ending? Besides, Sapko said many times it was just a joke, and he wrote it for his friend's wedding. You guys said it, and you know it. Now, I have a question for you. Did you guys make this mod as an alternative ending for books or games? If you made alternative ending for books, well, that's impossible. Geralt and Yen are probably dead. How did they escape from ısland? If you made alternative ending for games, now, I can explain how the Triss-Eskel thing is nonesensical and can't be an alternative ending. You should check the link shared in my first comment. Let me explain it quickly. There is no happy ending for everyone. You think Triss or Yen can jump into relationships after Geralt chooses one of them? Yen and Geralt broke up many times, but Yen did not jump into a new relationship. Triss wasn't different. Even though Geralt had a relationship with Yen, she did unethical things for Geralt, seduced him, and tried to steal him from Yen. In games, Geralt broke up with Triss many times. After Loc Muinne or after Geralt chose Shani in Witcher 1, she never jumped into a new relationship. Books and games are always about Triss's obsession with Geralt. ''Happy ending for everyone'' or shipping Yen/ Triss to someone else except Geralt is not realistic. Both can't be happy after Geralt. I know this is not the right place to discuss it. I shared a link for it in my first comment. It explains everything. Now, if you did not make an alternative ending, if it was just your fanfic, here are my thoughts: Me and many other people would like to play and enjoy your mod. But you added fanship, which we don't like. Now we don't like your mod. Sorry. I wish we would like it.
Another thing, Reds would never add something like Triss-Eskel as a canon. We said we don't have enough dialogues for Tirss-Geralt, then they added new dialogues. They care what we think, what their fans think. I don't believe they would make canon nonsensical fansip which clearly Triss fans would hate.
I know you guys didn't make this mod to disseminate hate for other fan groups. I can understand you, and as I said, I am not against Geralt and Yennefer's wedding or others opinions. I would gladly enjoy your mod if the Triss-Eskel thing was not in it. Maybe you guys did a great job. Screenshots are looking great. But, sorry again, this mod is not for us because of fanship we hate.
Of course there will be an option to play with English subtitles and Polish voiceover
For further info, patience please