Combat system

[Calistarius]

And don't quote Wikipedia man. That place can sometimes be more of opinions than facts when it comes to classifying genres of just about any media.. especially the unreleased ones.

If I use it or not depends very heavily on what it is I am talking about. In this case, about classifications of videogames RPG genres (and videogame genres in general), I think it's fairly viable. If anything it's more coherent and consistent when it comes to this, videogame genres, compared to most videogame news outlets online (even the big ones)... where de classification of these games can vary a lot, and/or be way to broad of classification to properly give an idea of what kind of game it actually is.

 

[Suhiira]

Problem is, these days any game that has any sort of stat or skill improvement system is classified as an RPG.

 

[Mk3rd]

Taking note of what cdpr said, "it's not gonna be a game for everyone, it's for mature people" and in regards to combat they want "to avoid the situation where your capabilities is that much dependent on stats, it's your own skill."

Judging by that, it only makes sense in a good video game to have that balance of character skill and player skill. Like SoulsBorne, you can have insane meta builds that would make you nearly invincible in PvE but a low lvl player could still take you out if you don't know how to use your arsenals in PvP. I feel like it's more immersive to do things manually while having these crazy augments and implants that help you in and out combat.

 

[Corewolf]

Judging by that, it only makes sense in a good video game to have that balance of character skill and player skill. Like SoulsBorne, you can have insane meta builds that would make you nearly invincible in PvE but a low lvl player could still take you out if you don't know how to use your arsenals.

This. If I can build a character where I can literally just steamroll everything without needing to potentially improve my OWN gameplay abilities, I get bored very quickly. It's one reason that MMO's and their combat systems tend to bore me. EVERYONE of my class can do what I do via skillbars or macros. Dark Souls III I can improve by practice and getting down parry timings, dodge timings and knowing my I-frames, while still improving those things via in game stats or items.

 

[Mk3rd]

Souls has arguably THE most basic combat system ever made. But where it stands out from others was the rules between the players and the environment, the deep builds and balancing, and the metagame done right. If CP2077 nails this(cuz no doubt they'll nail the other depts).. ohoho I can't even imagine how many years I'll be spending inside this game. No kidding.

 

[Suhiira]

Frankly I can't help but chuckle at those that assume CP2077 will feature some sort of PvP mode.
There's zero indication of anything of the sort.

PvP and PvE require two entirely different, and often incompatible, approaches to armor/weapon/skill/game balance. That's why most games that stress PvP allow characters both a "PvP" and a "PvE" build. Since creating a PvP game is not one of CDPRs goals for CP2077 I wouldn't expect any PvP, and if by some miracle there is, to expect CDPR - who has zero experience in creating PvP games - to create anything the PvP crowd (who can't agree on anything other then FPS in the first place) finds acceptable is highly improbable.

But go ahead and dream, just don't be disappointed when CP2077 isn't the game you think it should be.

 

[Corewolf]

I have zero illusions about CP2077 being a PVE game and just that. I just want a fleshed out combat system for PVE as well.

Dark Souls/Bloodborne are both PRIMARILY PVE (fightclubs aside).

I mean. For Honor is fairly fleshed out for PVP Combat, and their community is in an uproar over how certain things should be balanced or even used in said PVP combat (because it is totally unfair to pick up another character and hurl them off a ledge, for example, despite that being... you know, an obvious hazard)

 

[LegateLaniusThe2nd]

Souls has arguably THE most basic combat system ever made. But where it stands out from others was the rules between the players and the environment, the deep builds and balancing, and the metagame done right. If CP2077 nails this(cuz no doubt they'll nail the other depts).. ohoho I can't even imagine how many years I'll be spending inside this game. No kidding.

Souls games also gives full player control which is something I adore and adds depth in mechanics. That being said talking about a melee game is sort of irrelevant for Cyberpunk since it will likely be more of shooter and that will be the meat of the combat. Talking about good third person shooters would be a better discussion. Melee combat will probably be small side of the combat. They should add something like sleeping dogs for fist fighting.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

How about talking about good RPG's and what one might be in this context instead of the never ending cavalcade of "thrid person shooters" or "first person shooters" or "hack'n slashes"? I know it might be a bit too out of the box, but... well, shit, that is what is sorely needed in this industry. Thinking outside of the box.

 

[EV-9D9]

Souls games also gives full player control which is something I adore and adds depth in mechanics. That being said talking about a melee game is sort of irrelevant for Cyberpunk since it will likely be more of shooter and that will be the meat of the combat. Talking about good third person shooters would be a better discussion. Melee combat will probably be small side of the combat. They should add something like sleeping dogs for fist fighting.

The general theme allows for a ton of freedom...having melee only options for characters (whether class based or a system without set classes) is entirely possible here.
That'd obviously require some very decent movement capabilities and maybe a weak cloak / stealth feat but all in all I'd say it's not unlikely that there will be options that focus on melee - personally I'd be happy with that.

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

How about talking about good RPG's and what one might be in this context instead of the never ending cavalcade of "thrid person shooters" or "first person shooters" or "hack'n slashes"? I know it might be a bit too out of the box, but... well, shit, that is what is sorely needed in this industry. Thinking outside of the box.

Well, what would it be then, specifically? The way I see it, they have few options:

a) Full Rpg, combat entirely dependant on character development...judging by current trends ( and by this, going for more than a decade and not soon likely to change), this would satisfy only small % of the intended audience. But in this case they may as well scrape the whole project and create a "low budget" isometric rpg.
b) Full action game, entirely dependant on player skill ...this would be the infamous "dumbing down" and going against it's rpg roots, but results would be far more "popular"
c) Action rpg hybrid even on base level, mix of round based/turn based/real time/etc ( Alpha Protocol, Mass Effect I, Morrowind, Witcher I, etc)...this has been done already and results are crystal clear: ALL devs who did this moved away from this concept due to ( very) negative player reception.
d) Real time action where rpg mechanics dictate effectiveness and variety of builds/mechanics, while gameplay would be still be based on the same rules as with all action games. Imo, this is so far best compromise between player skill and meaningful character building ( Dark Souls, Mount and Blade...).

We can all state here that the "best" is what "I" want, but they have to think of an option that will be viable in the long run and trying to please everyone would be the worst outcome.

 

[Mk3rd]

Frankly I can't help but chuckle at those that assume CP2077 will feature some sort of PvP mode.
There's zero indication of anything of the sort.

PvP and PvE require two entirely different, and often incompatible, approaches to armor/weapon/skill/game balance. That's why most games that stress PvP allow characters both a "PvP" and a "PvE" build. Since creating a PvP game is not one of CDPRs goals for CP2077 I wouldn't expect any PvP, and if by some miracle there is, to expect CDPR - who has zero experience in creating PvP games - to create anything the PvP crowd (who can't agree on anything other then FPS in the first place) finds acceptable is highly improbable.

But go ahead and dream, just don't be disappointed when CP2077 isn't the game you think it should be.

Dude no. We are speculating because it's likely to happen. Remember that grant money they had from the Polish government? http://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-207...s-multiplayer/
"Seamless Multiplayer, on the other hand, is a “complex technology for making unique multiplayer gameplay mechanics, including the ability to search out for opponents, manage game session, replicate objects, as well as support for different game modes along with a unique set of dedicated tools."
--pcgamer

And besides, how ELSE are they gonna get experience in developing multiplayer if they don't even try to make one? Isn't that how all devs do it? They've been working their asses off since 2013. The single player is probably gold long when it was just their thoughts and discussions way before development(lol jk that's just me expressing my faith).

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

"Dude"? Suhiira?This is going to be good.

 

[Suhiira]

a) Full Rpg, combat entirely dependant on character development...judging by current trends ( and by this, going for more than a decade and not soon likely to change), this would satisfy only small % of the intended audience.

My problem is that you seem to assume CDPRs intended audience is Call of Duty or Overwatch players not RPGers. Might it be they'll let other companies create yet another COD clone and do what they've done so successfully in the past, target RPG fans?

d) Real time action where rpg mechanics dictate effectiveness and variety of builds/mechanics, while gameplay would be still be based on the same rules as with all action games. Imo, this is so far best compromise between player skill and meaningful character building ( Dark Souls, Mount and Blade...).

Again you assume some sort of FPS (player) vice RPG (character) system is inherently superior. Character skills are an afterthought included to primarily to placate the RPG crowd and/or let FPS fans experiment to find the best uberbuild.

Dude no.

Actually it's dudette.

We are speculating because it's likely to happen. Remember that grant money they had from the Polish government?
"Seamless Multiplayer, on the other hand, is a “complex technology for making unique multiplayer gameplay mechanics, including the ability to search out for opponents, manage game session, replicate objects, as well as support for different game modes along with a unique set of dedicated tools."

You make a rather large assumption with zero evidence to support it.

It's far more likely CDPR has plans for a future multiplayer game ... not CP2077 ... perhaps the mysterious second project they plan to release by 2021.
They'll probably use CP2077 to hone and polish their skills at large open worlds, character design and skill systems, firearms combat, vehicle control and movement, and a small scale multiplayer component. All of which would serve them well in a future large scale multiplayer game instead of diving into all these things essentially blind. Which is basically what they are now, never having actually designed any of the above systems previously.

And besides, how ELSE are they gonna get experience in developing multiplayer if they don't even try to make one? Isn't that how all devs do it?

Read the above.

And yes, that's exactly how most game design companies do it ... and frequently fail.
CDPR has so far shown themselves to be to smart to fall into that well known trap.

"Dude"? Suhiira?This is going to be good.

Hey !

I don't bite ...
...
...
...
hard ...
...
...
usually.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Well, what would it be then, specifically? The way I see it, they have few options:

a) Full Rpg, combat entirely dependant on character development...judging by current trends ( and by this, going for more than a decade and not soon likely to change), this would satisfy only small % of the intended audience. But in this case they may as well scrape the whole project and create a "low budget" isometric rpg.
b) Full action game, entirely dependant on player skill ...this would be the infamous "dumbing down" and going against it's rpg roots, but results would be far more "popular"
c) Action rpg hybrid even on base level, mix of round based/turn based/real time/etc ( Alpha Protocol, Mass Effect I, Morrowind, Witcher I, etc)...this has been done already and results are crystal clear: ALL devs who did this moved away from this concept due to ( very) negative player reception.
d) Real time action where rpg mechanics dictate effectiveness and variety of builds/mechanics, while gameplay would be still be based on the same rules as with all action games. Imo, this is so far best compromise between player skill and meaningful character building ( Dark Souls, Mount and Blade...).

We can all state here that the "best" is what "I" want, but they have to think of an option that will be viable in the long run and trying to please everyone would be the worst outcome.

You know, it is really sad that something like Dark Souls or Mount and Blade (and to an extent their gazillion copycats) seem to be thought to be the be-all-end-all of RPG design. What's the point of discussing anything else if that's where it all ends up in anyway, that, or some other similiar action whack-a-mole designed in kind.

There's plenty of opportunities to all kinds of things if some mind is put to the task. You cite a bunch of games as examples of how not to do things, but those games (the ones that weren't the last of their series) never got the evolution that would've finetune their design, they simply got outright turned into something else - and as such, they are simply the products of their own time that are not really all that viable examples in this dicussion without given a bit of thought on how they could've evolved. I mean, nobody wants a game that is like Morrowind to the letter -- but think about if you combined Morrowind and Witcher 1, what could that be like, and include the thought process of "how to make that play in interesting ways" and exclude the defeatist mentality that assumes nothing can be done.

 

[Sardukhar]

You know, it is really sad that something like Dork Souls or Mount a Blade .

Yeah, let's not do that, thanks. And by "that" I mean the non-constructive labels like these. Starts more trouble than does good, Kofe.

 

[Mk3rd]

You make a rather large assumption with zero evidence to support it.
It's far more likely CDPR has plans for a future multiplayer game ... not CP2077 ... perhaps the mysterious second project they plan to release by 2021. They'll probably use CP2077 to hone and polish their skills at large open worlds, character design and skill systems, firearms combat, vehicle control and movement, and a small scale multiplayer component. All of which would serve them well in a future large scale multiplayer game instead of diving into all these things essentially blind. Which is basically what they are now, never having actually designed any of the above systems previously.

Du... dette? whaa?... Anyway, c'mon I posted a link, I didn't just make that quote up y'know.
http://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-207...s-multiplayer/
^ and this is not just seen on pcgamer, it's all over the net.

They'll probably use CP2077 to hone and polish their skills at large open worlds, character design and skill systems, firearms combat, vehicle control and movement, and a small scale multiplayer component.

That's exactly the point!

And yes, that's exactly how most game design companies do it ... and frequently fail. CDPR has so far shown themselves to be to smart to fall into that well known trap.

Truth! frequently? yes. always? don't think so.

Hey !
I don't bite ... ... ... ... hard ... ... ... usually.

pls don't kill me

 

[Suhiira]

Anyway, c'mon I posted a link, I didn't just make that quote up y'know.

Read the title of the very article you reference:

"Cyberpunk 2077 could feature a ‘huge living city’ and ‘seamless multiplayer’"

Speculation, pure speculation, zero facts or confirmation.

Truth! frequently? yes. always? don't think so.

I wasn't aware "always" was now spelled f-r-e-q-u-e-n-t-l-y ... I could have sworn my post didn't imply it was an inevitable result.

Give CDPR some credit. Assume they'll continue as that have in the past, building on their successes, learning from their current project in order to improve the next. To assume they'll do something radically new and different (for them) just because some people want CP2077 to be a large-scale multiplayer game or MMO is a tad preposterous.

 

[Calistarius]

One thing I can say for sure is that it is definitely NOT a multiplayer shooter.

Source

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

A quote and only one word?? I'm impressed, Cali.

Yeah, let's not do that, thanks. And by "that" I mean the non-constructive labels like these. Starts more trouble than does good, Kofe.

C'mon, it wasn't that bad.