Combat system

[kofeiiniturpa]

You do realize you said exactly the same thing in two different ways? Intentional?

The trick is in the order of the words (prioritizing).

I suppose.

In any case, RPG first (all design), all else is secondary and not to compromise priority #1 (e.g. designed by the terms of it, not the other way around)..

 

[Suhiira]

The trick is in the order of the words (prioritizing).

Sorta thought that might be the intent, why I choose option #2.

 

[CyberKat2020]

A 3rd person action game with first person aiming... People (including you) should go down with a bullet or two, forcing you to rely on preplanned tactics, dodging, armor pieces which will only shield specific body parts (metal chest, leg, etc) to either avoid being shot altogether or block the bullets.
It'd be neat if they took advantage of what will probably be a very dense, urban environment; forcing your character to stay out of your enemies' (cybernetically enhanced, reflex-boosted) sightlines until you can slice up, shoot, or disable them.

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

They'll need to innovate or do something else than run of the mill cover and shoot TPS...even with solid core mechanics, this style of gameplay is becoming outdated and is far too monotonous for large titles. ( like with latest Ubisoft Ghost Recon title).

Playing through RE VI currently, without a doubt best combination of gunplay and maneuverability in any TPS... ton of possibilities for outmaneuvering and with a more open approach to encounters.
Roll forward or to either side, dash, slide, crouch, fall on your back+quickly roll over left or right.
And like any good system, skill factor and timing is the key...pressing direction key at the right end of each animation and player can more easily transition to another stance or quickly shoot ( from certain positions).
Plus you have limited stamina: you need to pay attention, be aware of enemy position and movement and plan your actions.

Could see something similar translated to Cyberpunk: Body stat would affect your endurance and recovery, Movement allowance( or whatever they call it) base speed of your actions, while Reflexes would dictate how large is the timed window for additional actions/transition ( + perhaps slow mo effect).

 

[Hoplite_22]

Nothing to see here, my mistake.

 

[cyberpunkforever]

no idea yet

but i hope it is something similar to mass effect- mad max

 

[Meccanical]

They'll need to innovate or do something else than run of the mill cover and shoot TPS...even with solid core mechanics, this style of gameplay is becoming outdated and is far too monotonous for large titles. ( like with latest Ubisoft Ghost Recon title).

Playing through RE VI currently, without a doubt best combination of gunplay and maneuverability in any TPS... ton of possibilities for outmaneuvering and with a more open approach to encounters.
Roll forward or to either side, dash, slide, crouch, fall on your back+quickly roll over left or right.
And like any good system, skill factor and timing is the key...pressing direction key at the right end of each animation and player can more easily transition to another stance or quickly shoot ( from certain positions).
Plus you have limited stamina: you need to pay attention, be aware of enemy position and movement and plan your actions.

Could see something similar translated to Cyberpunk: Body stat would affect your endurance and recovery, Movement allowance( or whatever they call it) base speed of your actions, while Reflexes would dictate how large is the timed window for additional actions/transition ( + perhaps slow mo effect).

I agree with mobility being an important gameplay aspect, not just because of what it could let you do during combat, but also how it could be used to avoid it all together.

 

[Suhiira]

Playing through RE VI currently, without a doubt best combination of gunplay and maneuverability in any TPS... ton of possibilities for outmaneuvering and with a more open approach to encounters.
Roll forward or to either side, dash, slide, crouch, fall on your back+quickly roll over left or right.
And like any good system, skill factor and timing is the key...pressing direction key at the right end of each animation and player can more easily transition to another stance or quickly shoot ( from certain positions).
Plus you have limited stamina: you need to pay attention, be aware of enemy position and movement and plan your actions.

My problem with this is it's all "gamey" stuff which bears zero resemblance to reality. Yeah a quickly maneuvering target is somewhat harder to hit, but not THAT significantly harder. You can't dodge bullets. Now if you want CP2077 to be a more-or-less strictly action game then this is fine. But if you want it to follow in the steps of CP2020 then no.

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

My problem with this is it's all "gamey" stuff which bears zero resemblance to reality. Yeah a quickly maneuvering target is somewhat harder to hit, but not THAT significantly harder. You can't dodge bullets. Now if you want CP2077 to be a more-or-less strictly action game then this is fine. But if you want it to follow in the steps of CP2020 then no.

If Realism is the goal, then a single, clean hit with a melee weapon or a gunshot: Game Over. And realistic gunfights are not "fun".
Result, at best, would be, extremely static and monotonous gameplay with player always hiding behind cover and using typical exploits: even in games with some of the best designed enemy AI, they become easy to out trick, once player familiarizes with their response patterns.
Or a "solution": Super fast regenerative health ( which no one wants to see here).
Imho, they need to find a good balance here between realism and combat with stronger sense of impact ( than your regular TPS) with more "gamey" elements that reward risk, experimentation, mobility.

 

[Suhiira]

If Realism is the goal, then a single, clean hit with a melee weapon or a gunshot: Game Over. And realistic gunfights are not "fun".
Result, at best, would be, extremely static and monotonous gameplay with player always hiding behind cover and using typical exploits: even in games with some of the best designed enemy AI, they become easy to out trick, once player familiarizes with their response patterns.
Or a "solution": Super fast regenerative health ( which no one wants to see here).
Imho, they need to find a good balance here between realism and combat with stronger sense of impact ( than your regular TPS) with more "gamey" elements that reward risk, experimentation, mobility.

Then I guess the PnP CP2020 I, and others, have run since it was released wasn't a fun game ... because you could get one-shoted, and smart players used cover and ambush tactics vice circle strafing and bunny bouncing.

It's really a matter of what kind of game any given individual wants to play.
My objection isn't to the type of game anyone wants to play ... but to CP2077 being built such that only twitch tactics and FPS skills matter.

 

[Hoplite_22]

Then I guess the PnP CP2020 I, and others, have run since it was released wasn't a fun game ... because you could get one-shoted, and smart players used cover and ambush tactics vice circle strafing and bunny bouncing.

It's really a matter of what kind of game any given individual wants to play.
My objection isn't to the type of game anyone wants to play ... but to CP2077 being built such that only twitch tactics and FPS skills matter.

For me the problem is often more one of AI than mechanics, if the AI isn't just right having one hit kills turns in to a certainty, which really isn't any fun. on the other hand if they are too dumb and you can jsut pick them off with out them really noticing it's not really any fun either.

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

Then I guess the PnP CP2020 I, and others, have run since it was released wasn't a fun game ... because you could get one-shoted, and smart players used cover and ambush tactics vice circle strafing and bunny bouncing.

It's really a matter of what kind of game any given individual wants to play.
My objection isn't to the type of game anyone wants to play ... but to CP2077 being built such that only twitch tactics and FPS skills matter.

Yes, but that's the thing...different format of the game requires ( at least some) change in core mechanics. Easiest thing to do is call it out as "dumbing down"/selling out/etc and caricature developers as AAA money grubbers only interested in chasing the latest trends.
Some things will absolutely have to be changed here ( such as classes like Rockerboy that "uses music" to fight against the system).

 

[Sardukhar]

Yes, but that's the thing...different format of the game requires ( at least some) change in core mechanics. Easiest thing to do is call it out as "dumbing down"/selling out/etc and caricature developers as AAA money grubbers only interested in chasing the latest trends.
Some things will absolutely have to be changed here ( such as classes like Rockerboy that "uses music" to fight against the system).

Sure, we're not all sitting around a table using our imaginations - that'll require adjustment. Whittling people's health down with many bullets? Probably not the adjustment needed. Plenty of milsims and even FPS like Rainbow Six and CoD: Hardcore mode have one and two shot kills on unarmoured or lightly armoured targets. Totally playable and fun.

Not trying to create a shooter game here. Do not need the CoD "gamey" method when higher lethality method is quite applicable.

I'm guessing you've never played CPunk, since you seem to think Rockerboy is using music like a gun or something to fight the system? What they do is manipulate people, either indirectly or directly, into doing what they want them to. Many role-playing games have mechanics like this.

Classes in Cpunk are called Roles for a reason - they represent only one (1) skill that other Roles don't have. So your Rockerboy could be a very good CQB practitioner or a medic or a street hustler. That one skill they have means when they want to, they can round up a mob - or really anyone they can get to listen to them, hello Youtube - to do what they want. Think of them as a social engineering/summoner class, if you need to make them a class.

Although again, a Solo could have a better Persuade/Fast Talk. Ha ha! I kid. What Solo would have an Empathy higher than 4? That'd mean little cyber and that'd be nuts.

 

[Corewolf]

I'm guessing you've never played CPunk, since you seem to think Rockerboy is using music like a gun or something to fight the system? What they do is manipulate people, either indirectly or directly, into doing what they want them to. Many role-playing games have mechanics like this.

Sard is, as usual, dead on the nose with this. Think bard with no ability to use attack magic. At most you get a gun and you aren't going to be great with it. Now convincing NCPD to look the other way or coercing a bar full of people to beat the hell out of a guy harassing you? Sure.

Although again, a Solo could have a better Persuade/Fast Talk. Ha ha! I kid. What Solo would have an Empathy higher than 4? That'd mean little cyber and that'd be nuts.

Can has more Chrome pls?

 

[Zagor-Te-Nay]

Sard is, as usual, dead on the nose with this. Think bard with no ability to use attack magic. At most you get a gun and you aren't going to be great with it. Now convincing NCPD to look the other way or coercing a bar full of people to beat the hell out of a guy harassing you? Sure.



Can has more Chrome pls?

Hmm, I think that's why clas-less system would work best...combat, stealth, hacking, diplomacy, support.
From what I've seen most interesting thing about it, is that each "class" has a certain lifestyle, than in typical rpgs: warrior, rogue, mage, etc.
CDPR can use their storytelling to connect better player characterization and rpg mechanics( as they did in Witcher, on a more personal and narrow term). Class would take a role of specific form faction. ( done more mechanically in most rpgs( even in Gothics)), this could be a win-win on both...preserving the classes ( in a way) that otherwise could be difficult to pull off , while keeping the system more open ( with restrictions) (Though this is trailing off for a different discussion).

 

[Suhiira]

Not "lifestyle" (i.e. playstyle) but specialty. One thing they do better then anyone else can. Be it hack, manipulate people, fight, fix stuff, gather information, whatever. What things do you do in the game to take advantage of that specialty that another character without that specialty wouldn't have any need to do? Thus making playing that character different from playing another.

 

[Corewolf]

Not "lifestyle" (i.e. playstyle) but specialty. One thing they do better then anyone else can. Be it hack, manipulate people, fight, fix stuff, gather information, whatever. What things do you do in the game to take advantage of that specialty that another character without that specialty wouldn't have any need to do? Thus making playing that character different from playing another.

Read- Fighter bashes down the door, Thief picks the lock, Mage teleports through it, Bard charms the person inside into opening it, Barbarian... goes through the wall.

 

[Suhiira]

Read- Fighter bashes down the door, Thief picks the lock, Mage teleports through it, Bard charms the person inside into opening it, Barbarian... goes through the wall.

Reads pretty good to me.
And exactly the options I'd expect to see in a good D&D game.

Unfortunately in most computer games your option (singular ... option) is pick the lock.
1a - Pick the lock.
1b - Insufficient skill to pick lock.
2a - Go level up somewhere else in the game.
2b - Skip the door unless central to the plot.
3 - Return and pick lock.

 

[Corewolf]

No Title

Unfortunately in most computer games your option (singular ... option) is pick the lock.
1a - Pick the lock.

1b - Insufficient skill to pick lock.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Unfortunately in most computer games your option (singular ... option) is pick the lock.

Games used to have more options. Then "technological adcances" came and the options started disappearing while everything got sharper and shinier.