You're wrong, Solitude and Windhelm are not quite as big as Skingrad for isntance. The TES4 cities also felt a lot more unique. You had Bruma, Skingrad, Anvil with it's roman architecture, Cheydinhal, Bravil, Leyawinn. The all looked distinct from eachother which is what Skyrim sorely missed.
You're wrong, Solitude and Windhelm are not quite as big as Skingrad for isntance. The TES4 cities also felt a lot more unique. You had Bruma, Skingrad, Anvil with it's roman architecture, Cheydinhal, Bravil, Leyawinn. The all looked distinct from eachother which is what Skyrim sorely missed.
Has anyone considered that in 1980, Venice had a population of 120,000 on the main islands ~ largely in the area and style of buildings from "a little later" than that I assume from the Witcher. This is of course with C20th population densities, and could have been *much* higher in an age where families lived in one room.
The modern 'sprawl' we associate with "large cities" is not something we should expect from this type of city. A dense, protected city core, with a few settlements nearby, but the peasants and yeoman farmers will be dispersed into smaller settlements, fortified villages etc in the surrounding area, not clustered to the city walls.
In time of war these settlements will be abandoned on the approach of enemies and the population will seek shelter in the cities, or in local fortified towns/villages/churches/castles or manor houses, but in times of peace the land is needed for farming to support such large populations, and unregulated building would not be tolerated by the liege lords (who own all, and who receive taxes).
The modern 'sprawl' we associate with "large cities" is not something we should expect from this type of city. A dense, protected city core, with a few settlements nearby, but the peasants and yeoman farmers will be dispersed into smaller settlements, fortified villages etc in the surrounding area, not clustered to the city walls.
In time of war these settlements will be abandoned on the approach of enemies and the population will seek shelter in the cities, or in local fortified towns/villages/churches/castles or manor houses, but in times of peace the land is needed for farming to support such large populations, and unregulated building would not be tolerated by the liege lords (who own all, and who receive taxes).
Not sure I get your point. As you say, a big city was (still is) surrounded by smaller settlements that provided it with food - the city don't produce food by itself. But still the city proper can be quite large. Novigrad is a Hanseatic-like trade city, and as such attracts non-agricultural population, and indeed would have a big population. I also believe CDPR intends to have some other smaller settlements in the area, so it would seem it will have a good degree of believability in this regard.
(Ancient Rome had population of about 1 million.)
The main point is density - with modern developments cities have sprawled, but the ancient cores are very small - where populations were high they tended to be quite dense, albeit usually there were separate 'villages' within close proximity dramatically reducing the density of the 'city and environs' to near current levels. (Our suburban developments are often near the 'average' density which robs the whole of contrast)
Often this is lost with the typically later development (recall that the Witcher is set at around C13th alternative world, but seemingly consistent with ours) ~ Venice is physically constrained *much* more than most cities, although there has been some reclamation.
While the city is still "the same size", the current population is less than half that only 30 years ago - which is a significant difference... With the day visitors it is bustling, but it does feel empty in the evenings.
It should also be remembered that Venice was a major power for nearly a thousand years ~ starting from far smaller settlements on smaller islands deeper in the lagoon, only spreading to the high-bank area of the Rialto after it had already become a significant power based on Torcello & Burano.
Often this is lost with the typically later development (recall that the Witcher is set at around C13th alternative world, but seemingly consistent with ours) ~ Venice is physically constrained *much* more than most cities, although there has been some reclamation.
While the city is still "the same size", the current population is less than half that only 30 years ago - which is a significant difference... With the day visitors it is bustling, but it does feel empty in the evenings.
It should also be remembered that Venice was a major power for nearly a thousand years ~ starting from far smaller settlements on smaller islands deeper in the lagoon, only spreading to the high-bank area of the Rialto after it had already become a significant power based on Torcello & Burano.
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Solitude has 23 buildings total.
Skingrad has 27 and counting the Count's manor, 28. House wise it has 14.
By bigger I meant by total size.
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Okay 23 then. Still very low for "Skyrim's Imperial City" it's a bloody joke.
EDIT
Found this picture
Okay 23 then. Still very low for "Skyrim's Imperial City" it's a bloody joke.
EDIT
Found this picture
Yeah, Solitude was a bit of a disappointment, considering how much it was mentioned by everyone in Skyrim. You'd think that the country's capital would be considerably larger than what was shown!
Only because it is a city I know well, and reasonably well described...
This tiny city had the Bishopric seat, three hot springs/baths, a very healthy textile trade, and a garrison in times of war of 1000 men under arms. The population of the city was around 2000, with the outlying villages/hamlets retreating into the walls and the adult males becoming part of the yeomanry if the area was threatened. The length of the walls was 1247m and the enclosed area is less than 0.1km^2
The visible 'extra fortification' growth some 300 years after our period of interest is still limited to the turnpike to the north (right hand side of the map), and south (left hand side, on the approach to the bridge).
I think the population of this central zone is far lower than this now, as it is predominantly a shopping centre but the overall city has a size of 11km^2 and 90,000 population.
Old population density was 20500 per km^2, current around 8200 per km^2. To fit 30,000 at this higher density would only require a 1.2x1.2km city at 1:1 scaling.
The total land area under cultivation in the country in 1086 was 80% of that under cultivation in 1914, with hamlets, farms and small villages scattered more or less evenly and uniformly across it. A few slightly larger hubs were at 'day market' and 'weekly market' distances apart within this network.
Not necessarily directly relevant to Novigrad, as it is a different type of city and landscape (we had fewer trolls and nekkers), but some points of reference that some might find interesting in their own right.
This tiny city had the Bishopric seat, three hot springs/baths, a very healthy textile trade, and a garrison in times of war of 1000 men under arms. The population of the city was around 2000, with the outlying villages/hamlets retreating into the walls and the adult males becoming part of the yeomanry if the area was threatened. The length of the walls was 1247m and the enclosed area is less than 0.1km^2
The visible 'extra fortification' growth some 300 years after our period of interest is still limited to the turnpike to the north (right hand side of the map), and south (left hand side, on the approach to the bridge).
I think the population of this central zone is far lower than this now, as it is predominantly a shopping centre but the overall city has a size of 11km^2 and 90,000 population.
Old population density was 20500 per km^2, current around 8200 per km^2. To fit 30,000 at this higher density would only require a 1.2x1.2km city at 1:1 scaling.
The total land area under cultivation in the country in 1086 was 80% of that under cultivation in 1914, with hamlets, farms and small villages scattered more or less evenly and uniformly across it. A few slightly larger hubs were at 'day market' and 'weekly market' distances apart within this network.
Not necessarily directly relevant to Novigrad, as it is a different type of city and landscape (we had fewer trolls and nekkers), but some points of reference that some might find interesting in their own right.
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Okay 23 then. Still very low for "Skyrim's Imperial City" it's a bloody joke.
EDIT
Found this picture
It doesn't encircle all of them, but regardless I realised the two maps I looked at on Uesp also list gates. My count(so subjective) is 20-25. Yes indeed calling it the imperial city of Skyrim was very moronic or rather marketing talk. Well those are the same thing.
Novigrad
From what we've seen so far Novigrad seems to be very colorful and happy city. I don't get that feeling of terrible war with Nilfgard.
Will there be any places in city in mood similar to temple quarter in Vyzima or poor man's district?
IMO cd projekt did there great job with ambiance and atmosphere in there.
Novigrad gifs
http://imgur.com/a/yCsV7#UR0sE1M
Some from new ac
non-human district
From what we've seen so far Novigrad seems to be very colorful and happy city. I don't get that feeling of terrible war with Nilfgard.
Will there be any places in city in mood similar to temple quarter in Vyzima or poor man's district?
IMO cd projekt did there great job with ambiance and atmosphere in there.
Novigrad gifs
http://imgur.com/a/yCsV7#UR0sE1M
Some from new ac
non-human district
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The war with Nilfgaard didn't come any further of the Pontar, so Novigrad doesn't have armies fighting at its gates or a crippled economy and starving citizens (supposedly, or at least not necessarily). One could imagine refugees fleeing from Temeria and their destroyed villages to the greatest city in the North, but there are many reasons why Novigrad wouldn't suddenly become all bleak and depressing, even if they started housing most of them.
The lack of colour and saturation isn't always a good thing when you represent unstable or warring locations; as I wrote quite a while ago, the sun won't cease to shine, crops will continue to grow and flowers will still bloom in spring. It's right to show a living environment even in No Man's Land and the areas closest to where the fighting is taking place, since Nilfgaard most probably isn't systematically razing every settlement to the ground and burning every single inch of land between Cintra and the Pontar, simply beacause it would be either unthinkable or an extremely unproductive waste of time and resources.
As for the "happy" feeling of the city, I didn't really feel any tangible happiness from the brief showing we got, just as I didn't - and rightly so - from any of the previous games' locations. Even Murky Waters had an eerie, mysterious aura of uneasiness mixed in with the bucolic atmosphere, and pretty much everywhere else, including what we saw from The Witcher 3, always gave off a distinct feeling of disquietude and tension from their dwellers.
