At the moment I'm kind of expecting something like Dying Light and Far Cry with an optable third person. Don't think that's what it should be, but I suspect that's close enough to something to expect. There are perktrees and all that jazz to modify the character, combat is fairly deadly and dynamic, and "flashy". I'm just trying to figure out what would make that kind of thing fun to play.
Suhiira;n9136050 said:
Put yourself in the place of a CEO. Considering that "keeping things simple" attracts more gamers to play your game, in other words, it broads the demographic, since most of the "gamers" are casuals, would you do that to the franchise because of the "muney"?
Keep in mind that the whole Cyberpunk 2020 has a unconventional demographic, since people who like 2020 will probably like more complex games, thus probably the minority of the gaming costumers.
So you could make 2077 a COD clone to get all the casuals and consequently scare the hell out of the hardcore/unconventional players, or you could make it reallly complex and scare the casuals away or you could make a game with both characteristics, but is such a thing even possible?
To make a game that appeals to two polar opposits in the gaming industry? For all I know, I can't remember something similar happening. Games that usually tries too hard to appeal to everyone lack integrity and look like a complete mess.
It reminds me of those brainstorm meetings where the big boss decides to include ALL the ideas in the final product. It's a mess!
kofeiiniturpa;n9135200 said:
Pardon my ignorance, but what the hell did Pondsmith mean by "flashy"? What the hell did you mean by "flashy"?
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Lisbeth_Salander;n9140310 said:
I can't say since he did no specify, but he doesn't mean a strobolight epilepsy generator, if that's what you're considering. It usually means sort of pompous, viceral and showing off. Transformers movies have "flashy" action sequences, for one example; as do Matrix movies.
The prospects with that do not bode well with me, but what can I do.
I couldn't agree more.Lisbeth_Salander;n9140310 said:
But it is possible to appeal to both, expensive, but possible.
No single system can because of those polar opposites, but there's no reason (beyond time and money) a game can't be dual system.
The real question is, will the additional sales from actively pleasing both groups add up to more then the cost of doing so? That I don't know. But obviously so far no publisher seems to think so.
Here is something a lot of people might not know... Mike Pondsmith worked on The Matrix Online mmo.kofeiiniturpa;n9140620 said:
Even befor he joined the company, that were making the Matrix mmo, he was pitching Matrix games to Microsoft as he was working for them (he left Microsoft to join the company that where making the Matrix mmo), and also another company as well (befor he finally found out that another company was making that Matrix mmo).
Yeah... something like that.Sardukhar;n9144100 said:
It does though make you wonder a bit more about what Pondsmith means when he uses the word "flashy"... what is to much, and what is not... and all that.
Suhiira;n9136050 said:
Likewise. To some degree at least. I'd kind of would like to be pleasantly surprised in the way that "Hey, they weren't completely predictable with this!" even if I wouldn't completely agree with all the design decisions. I'm sick to my stomach (proverbially, they're just games afterall) with the "currently popular" design and mentality of making these games. I know I keep repeating myself over these things (to the annoyance of some I'm sure), but there's nothing more to do for me here since these things are the ones that will make or break the game for me. Storytelling.... sure, it makes a difference, but I don't give a shit about it if I won't be having fun playing it out. I also don't get excited over Mikes interviews since they tell me nothing of the game but "Hey I can's say anything, but it's superawesome believe me!"; nice read, that's all.
(It's also pretty damn tiresome to repeat "I'm not asking for a 90's TB game!" all the time... just for a general comment, you've not said that...)
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Just remember, many (most?) game designers and almost all publishers are more concerned with selling the greatest number of games at the highest possible price for the least amount of effort then they are at the quality of a game. Why the whole Indy and Kickstarter thing exists. While there are of course the asset flippers and such out there, there are also folks that make a game because they want to not because of how much it will line their pockets. So far (and I hope this continues) CDPR acts like a good indy developer, they make what they like, and they like what they make.
Suhiira;n9149730 said:
Oh, I know, I've watched how the RPG industry has (d)evolved in the past so and so years. I'm just not a learning animal and am constantly pushing for an exception to the rule when I see potential for it (as slight as it might need to remain).
Suhiira;n9149730 said:
That's my framework as a customer. I just too bad Cyberpunk or Fallout are not among that framework. Well, Cyberpunk from the perspective that it has to be a big AAA seller and as such probably needs to compromise a lot of what a guy like me likes to play.
Suhiira;n9149730 said:
If only they'd make a good game too. Being "like a good indie developer" is not much of a comfort if they don't.
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Suhiira;n9150370 said:
Of course. I meant that there's nothing saying Cyberpunk will be good yet.
Suhiira;n9150370 said:
Can't tell since I do not know.
kofeiiniturpa;n9150420 said:
Thanks for ruining the fun by being realistic.
How does it feel to kill the hope in men's hearts?
Lisbeth_Salander;n9153900 said:
It's fun, nourishing and rejuvenating.
But I wish I was wrong with what I expect to see in the end. It's not necessarily "bad" or "not-good" in its own right, but...
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kofeiiniturpa;n9158350 said:
That's hardly fair. CDPR has an excellent track record of making good and great games by any realistic metric. Your prejudices are dictating your appreciation of craft. I'm not a Justin Bieber or Megadeth fan, but they are both good at what they do. What you're doing is akin to following someone who designs a lot of really cool adventures for DnD and complaining about what they do because you like to play Warhammer miniatures.
Have you been tracking Copper Dreams? Alpha access soon! Looks sooooo good. Here's a clip from the latest update if you haven't read it yet:
Ticks are represented by a quarter second of gameplay, but are abstract in that longer animations can play-out during these, or multiple hits shown off individually. So behind the scene, these play out like regular turns where gameplay they appear as more linear time.
Importantly, on a bar with other combatants these are super easy to compare. If an enemy is targeting you with a pistol and takes 3 ticks to aim, and 4 to recover from, you have the insight to know to start running and to attack after their bullet is airborne, as it obviously won't follow you. So with ticks, you can quantify how long your action will take compared to your enemy’s actions, allowing you to plan your moves and have the payoff of dodging and taking cover.
In Turn Mode, which can be toggled whenever you want and is automatically turned on in combat, after any action you take recovers, the world pauses for you to take another turn. We’ve somewhat reformatted the UI to make this snappier, and there’s no longer a confirm button for using an action. Once selected, your actions cannot be interrupted or changed, so gameplay is quite a bit quicker.
Importantly, on a bar with other combatants these are super easy to compare. If an enemy is targeting you with a pistol and takes 3 ticks to aim, and 4 to recover from, you have the insight to know to start running and to attack after their bullet is airborne, as it obviously won't follow you. So with ticks, you can quantify how long your action will take compared to your enemy’s actions, allowing you to plan your moves and have the payoff of dodging and taking cover.
In Turn Mode, which can be toggled whenever you want and is automatically turned on in combat, after any action you take recovers, the world pauses for you to take another turn. We’ve somewhat reformatted the UI to make this snappier, and there’s no longer a confirm button for using an action. Once selected, your actions cannot be interrupted or changed, so gameplay is quite a bit quicker.
Sardukhar;n9203981 said:
Not really. I can well appreciate the craft, but it means nothing beyond giving nominal credit for the effort if its function and purpose are not within the scope of what I'm looking for. I don't remember liking Kurosawa's movies, but I can admit they are well made and appreciate how they've affected cinema.
I'm not a number one fan of the Witcher games.
They are excellent story driven action adventures with some CYOA and RPG elements, and I do tip my hat at that, but as RPG's - and this is probably going to anger someone - I think they're second-rate at best (perhaps beside Witcher 1, which was, in my opinion, the closest thing CDPR got to making RPG's that still have a feeling of one... so far, that is).
My prejudice is that I've seen a few times how these things tend to go down inspite of the big words. I'm sceptical and doubting from experience before I see evidence of the contrary. (On the note of scpeticism... I do not know if that is or was the case, but early on it seemed to me -- inspite that one specific blog entry -- that Mike was always more about mood, themes, style and atmoshphere than anything else, and as such him being included in the team was really of little consequence to me.)
Sardukhar;n9203981 said:
That's putting a bit too much luggage on my back. I'm not a "warhammer player lost in a DnD forum". I'm on Cyberpunk RPG forum looking forward to one and hoping for it to play like one. My stance is more akin to cautiosly following Dorfmann in Flight of the Phoenix up until it comes to light that he's a model plane engineer and not a real one, and that all the big talks are but very self-confident chestbumbing and that due to that the odds of the thing they've built flying and crashing are... even.
There is a dose of "I want to believe, I want to believe..."
of course. Otherwise I wouldn't be posting here. But I'm a tougher bargain than to be presented with a box with the developers label "WOW it's a Dev X game. Ejaculating a rainbow here!", past credentials "From the developer of..." and glowing reveiw "It's awesome, believe me."
Sardukhar;n9203981 said:
Sounds good. Copper Dreams is one of those games I'm deliberately trying to keep myself in the dark with to not learn too much before I start a playthrough. One other is Battletech. I've almost ruined a couple of similiar games for myself by following too closely and too intensively, taking part in the alphas and betas and what not. When I was younger, one of the biggest joys in RPG's was to learn to play them; finding things out "Hey I can do this? That's cool!" It won't be like that anymore, of course, but if there was even a hint of it, it's already a victory in the world of prechewed and overguided games.
By the way, I've still no idea whether "Copper" means the metal or the slang word for cop.
------I edited a typo that might've made a certain part of my post a tad confusing, but this is what you get with dim blue text on top of dark blue background------
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