Graphic downgrade

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Second, If we did not see some effects in demo it doesnt mean they do not exist in game.

Yes, that´s true. But to be honest: even than I first saw the PaxEast-footage which I liked and still like for its fluent gameplay and infight-agility I was buffled at this point. Sure, it´s a nice view, nice pastell-colours. But I still can´t find anything breathtaking in it at all. It´s just a blur of aquarell colours. And as soon as some of the blurry mishmash-vegetation drops in at close range, something breakes inside of me. Doesn´t click for me as the older footage did, you also liked so much.
 
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The semi-volumetric clouds are still in, you can see that in PAX gameplay footage.

(sorry for the terrible quality)

You can see a cloud moving down the slope of the hill just like in the SoD trailer.
 
Some people make me smile when they are comparing promotional images that were clearly on Ultra settings and photoshoped, with the screenshots from the demos that are running on the MED-HIGH (consoles) / HIGH (PCs) settings.

CDPR already stated coutless times that what we saw from recent demos - was running on HIGH settings at best (recent PC demo), not on Ultra. Is that so hard to understand?
I also hope that console users are not debating this downgrade as they should be glad that CDPR SOMEHOW managed to make such beautifully looking open world game, that runs pretty smoothly on the consoles, despite it's low specs.

We, the PC community, should first wait for the Ultra settings gameplay, or even better - wait till the game is out, watch some benchmarks, PC reviews and ONLY THEN make our comparisons and judgment.
Comparing promotional screenshots that are photoshoped, on Ultra settings - with those console screenshots are not the best thing... Ofc there will be some differences.
 
CDPR already stated coutless times that what we saw from recent demos - was running on HIGH settings at best (recent PC demo), not on Ultra. Is that so hard to understand?

Besides the fact, that I can´t see anything HIGH about the visuals of the last footage (the lighting was nice, though) - you really think, that ULTRA will manage to bring the visuals of the Pax East-Gameplay (which we already saw on HIGH, regarding your post) to the visuals of the screenshots above or the earlier trailers, which we have already seen in motion?

I really hope thats optimism and not just wishful thinking.
 
Some people make me smile when they are comparing promotional images that were clearly on Ultra settings and photoshoped, with the screenshots from the demos that are running on the MED-HIGH (consoles) / HIGH (PCs) settings.

There will NOT be a massive difference between High and Ultra. There never is. Usually it's a few added effects or a minor upgrade it texture quality.

You wouldn't suddenly achieve 2013 landscape fidelity like the first picture.
 
How about we wait and see?

In a way, it's the only thing us forum members can do. On the other hand, it is definitely not the only thing CD Projekt can have us do.


I don't think there's a single forum member who wouldn't jump for joy at the first glimpse of 2015 in-game gameplay footage that would live up to VGX and SoD standards. Sometimes the lively debate can end up obscuring the essential. We may disagree on whether a downgrade has happened or not. At the end of the day, though, we're all fans of the series and are all rooting for CD Projekt RED.
 
Older Materials are not PBR. So they may look good in one TOD. But another TOD they will look worse. I already send the pictures that looks worse in older build. New materials and lighting looks identically amazing in every TOD. The only thing in this older screens are illusion. Really. Look at the Geralt's armour. Movement animation and etc. All looks worse.

First I am not talking about images or screenshots and I doubt very few are. Granted they get used as pointers for explaining the change in graphics fidelity people refer to but most "downgrade" claims don't come from images or screenshots but from the debut trailer, VGX and SOD when you compare it to everything released after that.

Second I already made it clear that I am no graphics expert whatsoever and features that for the experts enhances graphic fidelity can be absolutely lost on me and I cannot for the life of me see what the people knowledgeable about that subject talk about when for example when Digital Foundry do compare videos on their YouTube channel.

What I can see though and what matters to me in regards to a game's graphic fidelity is the atmosphere it can present. And atmosphere means the world to me in regards to RPGs. I love dense, gritty, mature, believable and real atmosphere and enviroments and in that regard there's to me a step backwards when I compare the older material against the new material. The whole mood and atmosphere of the scenery has simply changed to a less dense, less mature, less believable and less real world.

Why that is I cannot say, as mention I am no graphic exert and therefore I cannot say: "oh they turn of that feature or remove that effect". The only real sense I have in this regard is I see a change in color palette, to a certain degree art direction, density of foiler and the light feels differently. Those things combined with properly some features and effects turned off or removed have completely changed the mood, the feel and atmosphere of the game.

And I am fully aware that this experience can be and is subjectively - absolutely - but over the many threads I have followed and participated in, in regards to this whole "downgrade" business I think I can safely said that many others feel the same. Others on the other hand like the "new look" and that's great for them. We all like different things and what does it for you doesn't necessarily do it for me.

And believe me I will still play the game, of that I am certain. I am not on that wagon that yells CDPR lied to us - burn them all. The game for sure has so many other breathtaking merits going on for it that CDPR in the future will have raised the bar in regards to how a single player RPG should be done.

But I am also sure I will look back at those three first trailers with a bittersweet feeling and feel a little sad about what in my point of view could have been in regards to the atmosphere and mood. I will feel the icing of the cake was removed.

All that of course entails that there actually have been a "downgrade" or a changed or it is as @marcin360 answered YES to and that was that we can replicate the graphics fidelity of the earlier trailers.

We just don't know yet since Ultra hasn't been shown and they are still working on polishing the game.
 
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Quit with your aggressive, sarcastic tone. Completely unnecessary. Either debate politely, or go away.
After 2 threads of this topic, I can't really blame anyone for a sarcastic tone. And @Sharpy47 is right, you don't know what the engine is capable of, or what the difference is between high and ultra. A lot of games do have huge differences between those settings. And until we actually see it for ourselves nobody knows. I personally don't trust any article anymore. Because most of the info is either rehashed or misinterpreted or just lies. Like the whole 'locked-to-30-fps' debacle.

First I am not talking about images or screenshots and I doubt very few are. Granted they get used as pointers for explaining the change in graphics fidelity people refer to but most "downgrade" claims don't come from images or screenshots but from the debut trailer, VGX and SOD when you compare it to everything released after that.

Second I already made it clear that I am no graphics expert whatsoever and features that for the experts enhances graphic fidelity can be absolutely lost on me and I cannot for the life of me see what the people knowledgeable about that subject talk about when for example when Digital Foundry do compare videos on their YouTube channel.

What I can see though and what matters to me in regards to a game's graphic fidelity is the atmosphere it can present. And atmosphere means the world to me in regards to RPGs. I love dense, gritty, mature, believable and real atmosphere and enviroments and in that regard there's to me a step backwards when I compare the older material against the new material. The whole mood and atmosphere of the scenery has simply changed to a less dense, less mature, less believable and less real world.

Why that is I cannot say, as mention I am no graphic exert and therefore I cannot say: "oh they turn of that feature or remove that effect". The only real sense I have in this regard is I see a change in color palette, to a certain degree art direction, density of foiler and the light feels differently. Those things combined with properly some features and effects turned off or removed have completely changed the mood, the feel and atmosphere of the game.

And I am fully aware that this experience can be and is subjectively - absolutely - but over the many threads I have followed and participated in, in regards to this whole "downgrade" business I think I can safely said that many others feel the same. Others on the other hand like the "new look" and that's great for them. We all like different things and what does it for you doesn't necessarily do it for me.

And believe me I will still play the game, of that I am certain. I am not on that wagon that yells CDPR lied to us - burn them all. The game for sure has so many other breathtaking merits going on for it that CDPR in the future will have raised the bar in regards to how a single player RPG should be done.

But I am also sure I will look back at those three first trailers with a bittersweet feeling and feel a little sad about what in my point of view could have been in regards to the atmosphere and mood. I will feel the icing of the cake was removed.

All that of course entails that there actually have been a "downgrade" or a changed or it is as @marcin360 answered YES to and that was that we can replicate the graphics fidelity of the earlier trailers.

We just don't know yet since Ultra hasn't been shown and they are still working on polishing the game.
Well like you said the atmosphere and the feel of the world is subjective. But please note that, because there is a sunshine everyday, the world isn't less gritty or mature. And I agree, compared with some new screenshots or gameplay video's the 2013 material looked nice, not better but nicer. And that's mostly because of the grey colors filter, I guess you can call it a filter, then the yellowish tint everything has now. But I know that the time of day and the weather can have a huge impact on the looks of the game.


And until Ultra has been shown of, there really can't be any talk of downgrade in my opinion. If we don't know everything about the game then how can people say the game doesn't look as good as the previous released (2013) material. Because perhaps with Ultra the game does look as good as people hoped it would. (If they are really convinced of a downgrade)
But then maybe people will start complaining that they can't run ultra (and thus the advertised graphics) because if they turn everything on to Ultra, their FPS is in the gutter. So why don't we all just leave this thread for what it is, and wait till the game is released or the devs release the Ultra gameplay.
And no, I'm not saying the topic shouldn't be discussed nor am I saying one side is right and the other is wrong. I'm saying this topic has been discussed to death twice already, with no new arguments on either side.
(Other threads were there isn't any actual discussion going on would have been closed already)
 
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After 2 threads of this topic, I can't really blame anyone for a sarcastic tone. And @Sharpy47 is right, you don't know what the engine is capable of, or what the difference is between high and ultra. A lot of games do have huge differences between those settings. And until we actually see it for ourselves nobody knows. I personally don't trust any article anymore. Because most of the info is either rehashed or misinterpreted or just lies. Like the whole 'locked-to-30-fps' debacle.

Can you give examples of what games have a massive difference between high and ultra settings? Thanks.
 
Can you give examples of what games have a massive difference between high and ultra settings? Thanks.
You only need to look at Watchdogs, the game that started the whole downgrade controversy.

Game released, looks like med to high settings, kinda what Witcher 3 looks like now, not as good as the trailers. Users found a way to tweak the settings, and enable what the developers disabled, and were able to get the game looking like the original E3 trailer.

Whether this will be required with Witcher 3, we shall see, maybe Ultra will make a real difference, it really depends on the settings. If all Nvidia features are present and post processing effects set to max, draw distance set to very far, and maybe an option for high quality vegetation who knows.

We also don't know where Ultra fits in the scale of things. Graphics settings could be low, medium, high, very high, uber, ultra.
 
Can you give examples of what games have a massive difference between high and ultra settings? Thanks.

Most certainly.

Tomb raider:
The textures are better, the Tress hair thingy is activated. Other then that the video doesn't really show other textures, only Lara.
For the Witcher that could mean, Greater draw distance and LOD. And of course better textures.

Battlefield 4:
[video=youtube;d-IK9Q5aOdY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-IK9Q5aOdY[/video]
Again better textures and this time also GRASS, I know that's a big issue on these forums.

AC: Unity
From what I can see, better textures, better LOD and draw distance and more npc's on screen the higher you go (in settings). But it might be the different places the video was shot.

But anyway, Between High and Ultra are primarily just settings turned completely open/on. You might not find the differences that huge or important but their impact on performance is huge. And when you go and do some wall huggin' you actually see differences.
Look at Shadow of Mordor and their Ultra Texture pack, it makes a huge difference.


So sure, in the end I you could say that it depends from game to game. But for The Witcher 3, I could see the LOD, Draw distance, Textures, some effects being improved. Perhaps one of the 16 Free-LC is a 4k texture pack. Then the differences would be even bigger.
But at this point we can't really say if the difference between High and Ultra for TW3 is going to be significant. Because we don't know, we can't say the difference isn't huge, or is huge. We can only say that we think/hope/speculate it will be.
What I can say is that for other games it can be a huge difference.

And...
You only need to look at Watchdogs, the game that started the whole downgrade controversy.
Perhaps with some tweaking of game files we can unlock a bit more, but I doubt it will be a lot. Especially if we can barely run Ultra in the beginning.
 
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