Is there a happy ending?

+
My understanding is that CDProject Red promised to save V which is indeed an option. They didn't promise "Saving V and a happy ending".

As someone said before, it would be a bit of a slap to the players to hide the best ending behind a payed expansion.

I mean, that is 100% what they did with Witcher 3. The best ending is only achievable if you have the Blood and Wine expansion. Another very crapsack world that has a happy as all fuck ending.

Which, okay, having the very best ending behind an additional paywall does does have some problematic elements. OTOH, it could easily be portrayed as "the next book" in the series gets the characters to a new ending that the previous book didn't.

What's a slap in the face is that they basically made you pay to get the VERY WORST and most depressing and hopeless ending. That there IS NO best ending. Gee thanks.
 
Nothing at all wrong with enjoying any part of the game, I've enjoyed my share of relationships in games. What worries me is how attached people seem to get to these relationships, such that they're breaking down RL or rampaging on forums because things didn't go as planned. Because you're playing the game it does feel a little more personal than if you were watching a movie, but that's the sort of mindset people should be playing these things in - it's just a story being told, you really have very little control over it.
This is very much not the selling point of a choice driven game.

The RPG genre is very much based on your choices having some ability to dictate the outcome. And they, honestly, do in this game as well. You are given the ability to choose various outcomes. The problem is that they all suck. Every single one of them. It's a classic Star Trek "No Win Scenario" and a lot of folks are, like Captain Kirk, rejecting the premise.

I would argue that people aren't necessarily mad just because they don't get to ride off into the sunset with their preferred love interest. (Although that SHOULD be possible depending on your choices or what's the point?) They're mad because they're clumsily hamfisted in a direction like a bad DM who has a campaign on rails and has dictated the ending in advance.

Take the Tower ending as an example.

This could and SHOULD be setup as a pretty clear tradeoff: you lose Johnny's friendship (either with him understanding or not depending on how close you two have gotten), let Songbird die, feel a bit like a total heel for making the selfish choice...but you live and then you get to go on with all of the friends you've made along the way. The game EXPLICITLY states that this is the choice you are making (in the form of the Reed character). You'll be out for a month or so.

THAT is your "bittersweet" ending that everyone says MUST be mandatory for Cyberpunk. The bitter is losing Johnny and feeling like, despite Song being a liar and using you the entire way, she was just trying to survive and doing what she had to in order to do so and you let her down by selling her out at the end when you learned the truth. The sweet is that you are cured, keep all of your OTHER friends, and now are a legend with the ability to possibly continue to make a difference going forward without having weeks to live.

That is the very definition of what bittersweet means: some bitter sacrifices and loss to go with some upside, hope and happiness.

Okay, so things go wrong. Arguably that's still fair enough. Reed could be wrong, untrustworthy, etc. But it is from there that the "story" goes completely bonkers in order to railroad to a certain ending. It's very much the equivalent of a bad tabletop DM who WILL make a certain result happen regardless of player agency.

Because it breaks all of the established characters in order to get to that ending. Nearly every character in the game acts completely against how they have been written thus far in order to write the story the way CDPR wanted to write it. If not for the voice actors, the characters would be unrecognizable as who they had been written up until that point. They don't act like themselves in any way for the most part.

So to summarize:

1. Removes most of the impact of player choices by leaving no way of getting good outcomes
2. Breaks established characters in order to force as depressing an outcome as possible
3. Tells a bad story because of these two things.
4. Basically acts like every sort of stereotypical bad DM ever.

A good story has characters act with some sort of consistency.
 
The game doesn't necessarily need happy endings.

That said, Cyberpunk as a genre is also not always bleak and nihilistic with its outcomes. The world may be soul crushing, but sometimes victory is eking out a sliver of humanity and hope amidst a crushing reality. Its not a hardcoded rule as some would argue.

Many stories like Neuromancer, Snowcrash, Blade Runner, Ghost in the Shell have better outcomes for their protagonists, so it really falls down to the creator's intent. Cyberpunk is cautionary contemplative fiction, but its also about rebellion, change, American anxieties about the future, the malaise of Capitalism and the nature of consciousness. Sometimes overcoming death is the easy part, and the true challenge is dealing with the ramifications.

These endings are perfectly okay to me so long as it means they pickup on V's story in Orion. Otherwise, they're way too open ended to feel like a satisfactory self contained story imo. Most of the endings setup too much to just end here.
 
Last edited:
a legend should not have a happy ending; its main goal is to be remembered, and this is an incompatible concept with happiness. That’s why I hope that V doesn’t have a good ending, I wouldn’t even choose it out of interest - it’s not canon.
(Google translator)ua.
 
This is very much not the selling point of a choice driven game.

(1) - The RPG genre is very much based on your choices having some ability to dictate the outcome. And they, honestly, do in this game as well. You are given the ability to choose various outcomes. The problem is that they all suck. Every single one of them.

(2) - I would argue that people aren't necessarily mad just because they don't get to ride off into the sunset with their preferred love interest. (Although that SHOULD be possible depending on your choices or what's the point?)

(3) - Nearly every character in the game acts completely against how they have been written thus far in order to write the story the way CDPR wanted to write it.
I've numbered the 3 points I want to make, as I have no idea how to multi quote.

1) Not every story has a happy ending, it's a bit of a trope for RPGs to have happy endings, you level up, take on the big bad boss and ride off into the sunset. Cyberpunk has never been that type of RPG, much like it's fantasy cousin, Shadowrun. The Corps have massive amounts of resources and can make anyone disappear if they become too much trouble. They don't fear the law because they own law enforcement. For a similar theme, look at John Wick, four movies and he got what he wanted, but died in the process.

2) Maybe it should be possible, but at what cost? Do you focus on saving your life, or on spending your last days with someone you fell in love with? As the story shows, you can't have both. You can leave with your love and die months later, or you can save your life but lose them in the process. Having both just hits that generic fantasy trope that doesn't fit the genre. I think CDPR made the right choice with their options. But on that subject, why get involved at all when you know you're going to die soon? In the hope that it'll all work out in the end? In Night City? Really?

3) I think they acted normally. I'm not sure how many you can call, but in my playthrough I had Panam, Judy and Kerry. Kerry was in Europe, playing live shows and was distracted. Judy also travelled and got married. Panam didn't want to know. All interactions made sense. Each one only knew V for a short time, they're not going to fall to their knees and cry because you returned to them. Kerry had continued his music career. Judy was always quick to switch partners so being married makes sense. And Panam was a selfish narcissist, so blocking you makes sense there too. In game terms, I met them all about a third of the way into the game, and when I finished the iguana had recently hatched which takes 2 months in-game time. So they knew V for about a month and a bit. It's long enough to make a friendship, not long enough to be heartbroken if they stop calling.
 
I've numbered the 3 points I want to make, as I have no idea how to multi quote.

1) Not every story has a happy ending, it's a bit of a trope for RPGs to have happy endings, you level up, take on the big bad boss and ride off into the sunset. Cyberpunk has never been that type of RPG, much like it's fantasy cousin, Shadowrun. The Corps have massive amounts of resources and can make anyone disappear if they become too much trouble. They don't fear the law because they own law enforcement. For a similar theme, look at John Wick, four movies and he got what he wanted, but died in the process.

2) Maybe it should be possible, but at what cost? Do you focus on saving your life, or on spending your last days with someone you fell in love with? As the story shows, you can't have both. You can leave with your love and die months later, or you can save your life but lose them in the process. Having both just hits that generic fantasy trope that doesn't fit the genre. I think CDPR made the right choice with their options. But on that subject, why get involved at all when you know you're going to die soon? In the hope that it'll all work out in the end? In Night City? Really?

3) I think they acted normally. I'm not sure how many you can call, but in my playthrough I had Panam, Judy and Kerry. Kerry was in Europe, playing live shows and was distracted. Judy also travelled and got married. Panam didn't want to know. All interactions made sense. Each one only knew V for a short time, they're not going to fall to their knees and cry because you returned to them. Kerry had continued his music career. Judy was always quick to switch partners so being married makes sense. And Panam was a selfish narcissist, so blocking you makes sense there too. In game terms, I met them all about a third of the way into the game, and when I finished the iguana had recently hatched which takes 2 months in-game time. So they knew V for about a month and a bit. It's long enough to make a friendship, not long enough to be heartbroken if they stop calling.
I don't know how to multi quote either, so this works for me.

1. I did explicitly spell out a way to have the Tower ending be a "bittersweet" ending vs. a purely happy one and how they went above and beyond bittersweet to dictate a shitty ending by breaking established characters.

But, realistically, there's no rule saying that Cyberpunk CAN'T have a happy ending as at least ONE of the options. The Witcher universe is well established as a crapsack world and there are ways to get one. Heck, even some of the characters in Cyberpunk2077 have objectively happy endings. (For example, if you're playing a male V, Judy leaves Night City finds a fresh start and a new girlfriend and objectively gets one of those "ride off into the sunset sort of endings.")

I'm not as familiar with Cyberpunk as others, but multiple posters in multiple threads have named similar examples from established canon that happy endings aren't impossible to get.

2. The story only "shows" this by breaking the characters in the Tower ending. For example, if you're in a relationship with Panam you have saved the entire Aldecado clan. They still exist because of you. In another ending, they're willing to storm Arasaka Tower for you. That's how dedicated and grateful they are. That is how they are WRITTEN in the main game.

So to have Panam completely unwilling to even return your calls, even after you've been in a coma, is dictating a worse ending by breaking the Panam character. It is railroading and not taking your choices into account up until that point in the story.

Panam in base game: "You want me to sacrifice my clan in a raid on Arasaka because you think it will save you? Sure, we're family and we got your back always. We won't leave you hanging after everything you have done for us."

Panam in PL: "You were in a coma for 2 years? FUCK YOU, YOU PIECE OF SHIT. NEVER CONTACT ME OR MY CLAN EVER AGAIN!"


This is the ultimate rebuttal to anyone who claims that Panam is just a selfish narcissist. In the base game, she's willing to sacrifice everything to try and help you. And in the expansion, she won't even return your phone call after you explain you've been in a coma? Nah, bro. That's just shit tier writing to railroad the plot along. These are two completely different characters.

Put more bluntly: people aren't mad JUST because they can't have an option for a halfway decent ending (including a whole lot of people such as myself where this is my very first exposure to the genre) but they're mad because the writing makes zero sense here! The answer to your question of "why get involved at all when you know you're going to die soon? In the hope that it'll all work out in the end? In Night City? Really?" is that a lot of people kinda naively assumed that wasn't written in stone tablets. That our choices actually weren't utterly meaningless and we weren't doomed no matter what we do to just choosing between the specific type of crap. "Hello sir, would you like to eat cat shit or dog shit today? We also have bird shit if you'd like to try something a little different."

If everything is going to be total shit with no way of changing it, a better question is "Why even bother playing at all?" By making all the endings dictate total suckiness regardless of what you do, it makes everything you do as a player playing the game meaningless. As you put it, why bother?

3. It may have made sense in your playthrough under the decisions that you have made, but it makes zero sense in a lot of playthroughs for a lot of other people who did a lot more for the characters in question.

Simple length of time is not the be-all, end-all on the impact people have in someone's lives. Take River for example. Sure, you've hardly known him all that long......when you go out of your way to save his nephews life and possibly prevent his sister from committing suicide. This is largely true for many of the characters in the game.

They may not have known you long, but you're largely responsible for saving their lives, saving their family's lives, saving their happiness, or their careers or MULTIPLE of the above.
 
Last edited:
As far as I know there are no happy endings, which is a shame, after so many hours you could give V a good farewell and send him/her of with a loved one.
 
2. The story only "shows" this by breaking the characters in the Tower ending. For example, if you're in a relationship with Panam you have saved the entire Aldecado clan. They still exist because of you. In another ending, they're willing to storm Arasaka Tower for you. That's how dedicated and grateful they are. That is how they are WRITTEN in the main game.

So to have Panam completely unwilling to even return your calls, even after you've been in a coma, is dictating a worse ending by breaking the Panam character. It is railroading and not taking your choices into account up until that point in the story.

Panam in base game: "You want me to sacrifice my clan in a raid on Arasaka because you think it will save you? Sure, we're family and we got your back always. We won't leave you hanging after everything you have done for us."

Panam in PL: "You were in a coma for 2 years? FUCK YOU, YOU PIECE OF SHIT. NEVER CONTACT ME OR MY CLAN EVER AGAIN!"
As you said and I highlighted, In another ending. This is a different path, a different story. You helped the Aldecaldo's and then promptly vanished with barely a word, though I'll agree the text messages sent before going into hospital were a bit weak. If I remember right, you find Panam tried to reach out to you multiple times before finally giving up through old text messages. Though you were in a coma and can tell her that, you don't know what's happened since - perhaps she too has moved on, has a new partner and isn't talking to you to save your feelings and her new partners feelings. Who knows? The clan would likely follow her wishes to not reveal anything and ask V to let it go.

Two years is a long time, a lot can happen. Contacting someone after that long would be akin to Judy, where she's got a new partner, moved out of the city, got married, etc. You wouldn't go into it expectantly, more with a little hope that their lives haven't changed too much and you can maybe reconnect.

At the end, two people remained but even they had changed. It's life. And it also shows that V can have her own life now, if everyone you know can change and go in different directions in two short years, then a lifetime sure is a lot for V to look forward to.
 
Devs originally did an ending where V moved to a log cabin in the mountains and made friends with the squirrels and deer and woodpeckers and dormice. With their chosen partner they made babies and built a village school and taught their children to sing lovely songs with many key changes. Then V became a grandpa or grandma and their grandchildren spread the word and achieved world peace and made sure there were rainbows in the sky every evening.

But devs felt it was too obvious as the logical conclusion to a story in which every story strand relates back to the concepts of the soul and of mortality, so they cut it to make sure the game wasn't too predictable.
 
As you said and I highlighted, In another ending. This is a different path, a different story. You helped the Aldecaldo's and then promptly vanished with barely a word, though I'll agree the text messages sent before going into hospital were a bit weak. If I remember right, you find Panam tried to reach out to you multiple times before finally giving up through old text messages. Though you were in a coma and can tell her that, you don't know what's happened since - perhaps she too has moved on, has a new partner and isn't talking to you to save your feelings and her new partners feelings. Who knows? The clan would likely follow her wishes to not reveal anything and ask V to let it go.

Two years is a long time, a lot can happen. Contacting someone after that long would be akin to Judy, where she's got a new partner, moved out of the city, got married, etc. You wouldn't go into it expectantly, more with a little hope that their lives haven't changed too much and you can maybe reconnect.

At the end, two people remained but even they had changed. It's life. And it also shows that V can have her own life now, if everyone you know can change and go in different directions in two short years, then a lifetime sure is a lot for V to look forward to.
Two years is not THAT long in the context that you saved her and her entire family from complete annihilation.

I don't care what happened after that. Once you explain: "Hey, COMA" then the combo of that plus "saved her life and the lives of everyone she loves..." (multiple times even depending on how many side quests you do) kinda trumps two measly years or at the very least warrants hearing you out. Even if she has a new partner, she would owe you at least a conversation. (Even Judy was willing to do that much.) And, again, this is the same person who was willing to attack the headquarters of the most powerful corporation in the entire world...was willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING for you.

Two years changes it from that to never wanting to speak with you ever again even despite mentioning you were in a coma.

This once again gets back to: shit tier writing intended to railroad a bad ending. They wanted to make the ending as depressing as possible. And they bent every character as far as they could to make that happen.

Want V to lose Panam too in this ending? Sure, go ahead and write in that she found a new partner...and then let V know that she still hasn't forgotten everything he did for her and if he needs a new home in the Aldecados it is waiting for him. Even that would have been a bit more satisfying and make sense. "Bittersweet" if you will rather than...dog shit in your mouth.

Again, the way they went out of their way to try and make it as bad as possible is indicative that screwing you for making that choice was the point...and they are punishing the player for choosing to have V live.

I also want to quickly double back to Judy for a second with the insinuation that she changes partners frequently. This is not presented in any for that character either. Quite the opposite. She makes it her life's mission to avenge and help out Evelyn Parker for instance. And before that, with Maiko, you can tell from the emails that you find that was a long term, committed relationship that fell apart due Maiko's ruthlessness and cold heartedness eventually being to great a hurdle for the relationship to overcome.

If anything, she is the opposite of someone who lets go of people quickly in the game. Most of her entire arc involves trying to track down and help Evelyn. (Which...you do for her. Another character that they twist beyond recognition to force feed the Tower abandonment ending.)
 
No, there isn't. They totally ignored the importance of any other choice you make in the main game for the sake of telling a specific story, which would be fine within the context of the expansion itself but total horseshit when factoring in, you know, the main game and also no, you can't free roam after PL. You're supposed to get the pop up to reload the point of no return save but it didn't function for me.
You can still free roam, you just need to select Load Game and pick the point of no return save
 
good ending: leaving with panam (+ judy)
bad ending: arasaka
new ending withPL: just another ending cause a lot of players wanted an ending where V survives.

the sun ending: canon ending (cause V has a secret deal with mr Blue Eyes, exactly like Songbird + johnny is more important in that ending)

i'm probably wrong, but we'll see with Cyberpunk Orion.
 
Last edited:
No, and it doesn't need a happy ending.

What it does need is a story and ending that provide some logic to playing in a large open world, rather than racing through the main quest as quickly as possible and rolling ending credits. It's never had that, CDPR missed multiple opportunities to provide even one such rational choice, and is the reason that despite the fact that the game is definitely fun, it will never be anywhere near my top game list. Too much cognitive dissonance with having to actively deny everything the game is telling me about my character's condition and prognosis.
 
No, and it doesn't need a happy ending.

What it does need is a story and ending that provide some logic to playing in a large open world, rather than racing through the main quest as quickly as possible and rolling ending credits. It's never had that, CDPR missed multiple opportunities to provide even one such rational choice, and is the reason that despite the fact that the game is definitely fun, it will never be anywhere near my top game list. Too much cognitive dissonance with having to actively deny everything the game is telling me about my character's condition and prognosis.
Weirdly I had a MUCH bigger problem with this in Witcher 3 than Cyberpunk. Possibly because I'd played Witcher 3 before, but also because saving your sort-of daughter but let's stop to pick flowers felt to me so obviously urgent and incongruous with the side content that I had to block it from my mind. In Cyberpunk the urgency is not about some other person under your protection, just a question of what you, yourself, want in respect of your own health.

But, yes, a small tweak to Vik's post-heist lines would go a long way to addressing the issue. Alas at this stage probably too late to add voice work.
 
Weirdly I had a MUCH bigger problem with this in Witcher 3 than Cyberpunk. Possibly because I'd played Witcher 3 before, but also because saving your sort-of daughter but let's stop to pick flowers felt to me so obviously urgent and incongruous with the side content that I had to block it from my mind. In Cyberpunk the urgency is not about some other person under your protection, just a question of what you, yourself, want in respect of your own health.

But, yes, a small tweak to Vik's post-heist lines would go a long way to addressing the issue. Alas at this stage probably too late to add voice work.
That's true.

I can rationalize it somewhat for TW3, only in the sense that the search for Ciri isn't framed with quite so much immediacy, and some of Geralt's activities relate to his Witcher contracts to earn enough money to continue the pursuit, and other of his activities relate to trying to run down leads on where to look for her in the first place. But no doubt there are a lot of side quests that are just miscellaneous things to occupy time.

And then there's probably some element of my frustration with the CP2077 story wrapped up in the simple fact that I've seen variations on this trope in enough games for enough years (including elements of TW3) that it's just no longer acceptable low cognitive effort story telling. It's past time to do better. I'm going to resist the temptation to completely go off on BG3's use of that same lazy, outdated trope.
 
That's true.

I can rationalize it somewhat for TW3, only in the sense that the search for Ciri isn't framed with quite so much immediacy, and some of Geralt's activities relate to his Witcher contracts to earn enough money to continue the pursuit, and other of his activities relate to trying to run down leads on where to look for her in the first place. But no doubt there are a lot of side quests that are just miscellaneous things to occupy time.

And then there's probably some element of my frustration with the CP2077 story wrapped up in the simple fact that I've seen variations on this trope in enough games for enough years (including elements of TW3) that it's just no longer acceptable low cognitive effort story telling. It's past time to do better. I'm going to resist the temptation to completely go off on BG3's use of that same lazy, outdated trope.
Well, Cyberpunk is about mortality and the soul and the whole game is designed around those themes, so in that sense I don't think the urgency device is really a trope here. It's central to the themes the story (and side content) are exploring.

I really don't mind open world games having urgency that you need to sort of semi ignore when you do the side content. The alternative is the Bethesda approach -- flaccid, cartoonish storytelling with no tension and in which nothing is at stake because it's been designed to deliver up gameplay loops first and foremost whenever the player desires them. That's a deliberate choice in Bethesda's case because their prime focus is freedom of player gameplay experience, rather than narrative quality. But it sure doesn't lead to tight narratives with credible stakes.
 
Last edited:
Truly great game until the end and I wish I never played this game. Gaming should be an escape from rl. Somewhere you go to have fun and for that moment to forget the hard day at work for example. Gamers invest a lot of time and get so emotionally involved. In my opinion there are different types of players and we shouldn't judge anyone's preferences however, giving different ending both sad and happy ending I believe would make all types of players appreciate the game from their own perspective. I think that's the only mission link with cp.
 
Top Bottom