The White Frost

[whiteroseblackthorn]

The White Frost

So my question is, what exactly IS the white frost? Where does it come from? What caused it? I get no sense of that from W1 or W3, just that it is a prophecy that comes to pass, and only the elder blood can destroy it, whatever that may be. So someone who has read the books, can you answer the question?

 

[inanimate_object]

Good question.

 

[frozenkex]

ice age.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

So my question is, what exactly IS the white frost? Where does it come from? What caused it? I get no sense of that from W1 or W3, just that it is a prophecy that comes to pass, and only the elder blood can destroy it, whatever that may be. So someone who has read the books, can you answer the question?

The white frost is a kind of natural force, much like an ice age.

I've written quite a bit about the White Frost and the elder blood here: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...-mess-major-spoilers!!!?p=1761767#post1761767

In the books the elder blood can't "destroy" the White Frost. It's a force of nature no being - no matter how powerful - can destroy. It the books it was never the task or purpose of the elder blood to destroy the White Frost in the first place, but to open a steady gate between the worlds - the Ard Gaeth - in order to evacuate poeple to other worlds once the White Frost begins to consume the respective world.

Spoiler

"We have [...] more than good reason to assume that your world is in danger of annihilation. A climatic catastrophy of extreme scope. With your profound education you've surely heard of Aen Itlinn Speath, Itlina's prophecy. It relates to the White Frost. We think that it means a strong glaciation. And since 90 percent of the main land of your world are located on the northern hemisphere a glaciation can threaten the very existence of most beings. They will just die of cold. Those who will survive will descend into chaos, wiping each other out in merciless struggles for food, becoming the prey of predators mad of hunger themselves. Remember the wording of the prohecy: time of contempt, time of axe, time of wolve storms... [...]
The child we care about so much, the descendent of Lara Dorren and bearer of her gene which was specially built by us can save the inhabitants of this world. We have reason to believe that Lara's descendent - and yours, naturally - will have abilities at their command that will be more than a thousand times stronger than ours, the ones of the Sages. And which you have at your command as well, in a rudimentary form.[...] It's about the possibility to not only be able to transport yourself, your own not so important person, between the worlds. It's about the opening of Ard Gaeth, the big and steady gate that can be used by everyone. Before the conjunction we once managed to achieve that and we want to be able to do so again now. We will evacuate the Aen Seidhe from the dying world in which they live. Our brothers to whom we owe help. We couldn't live with the awareness that we missed something in order to save them. And we will save them, we will evacuate everyone who is threatened in this world. Everyone, Zirael. Even the humans."

Avallac'h telling Ciri about the White Frost in Andrzej Sapkowski, The Lady of the Lake

 

[onionshavelayers]

This is my biggest problem with the game. Destroying The White Frost was never the central focus of the story, and was crammed right at the end, at the conclusion of the Geralt story.

We as the players have no clue as to what exactly The White Frost is, only that it brings about an ice age has been profisised. The game doesn't show us exactly what it is, and how Ciri defeats it or even why SHE needs to in the first place. And introducing this at the conclusion of the story only brings more unanswered questions, instead of bring closure to the story.

I think the writers were going for a twist ending but this is not how you do it. A good twist ending is one that you never saw coming but makes sense when you piece together the events that occurred during the entire story.

 

[Ljesnjanin]

Yes, unstoppable and inevitable climate change...According to Nimue it will happen in 3000 years, iirc...

 

[sidv88]

The white frost is a kind of natural force, much like an ice age.

I've written quite a bit about the White Frost and the elder blood here: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...-mess-major-spoilers!!!?p=1761767#post1761767

In the books the elder blood can't "destroy" the White Frost. It's a force of nature no being - no matter how powerful - can destroy. It the books it was never the task or purpose of the elder blood to destroy the White Frost in the first place, but to open a steady gate between the worlds - the Ard Gaeth - in order to evacuate poeple to other worlds once the White Frost begins to consume the respective world.

Spoiler

"We have [...] more than good reason to assume that your world is in danger of annihilation. A climatic catastrophy of extreme scope. With your profound education you've surely heard of Aen Itlinn Speath, Itlina's prophecy. It relates to the White Frost. We think that it means a strong glaciation. And since 90 percent of the main land of your world are located on the northern hemisphere a glaciation can threaten the very existence of most beings. They will just die of cold. Those who will survive will descend into chaos, wiping each other out in merciless struggles for food, becoming the prey of predators mad of hunger themselves. Remember the wording of the prohecy: time of contempt, time of axe, time of wolve storms... [...]
The child we care about so much, the descendent of Lara Dorren and bearer of her gene which was specially built by us can save the inhabitants of this world. We have reason to believe that Lara's descendent - and yours, naturally - will have abilities at their command that will be more than a thousand times stronger than ours, the ones of the Sages. And which you have at your command as well, in a rudimentary form.[...] It's about the possibility to not only be able to transport yourself, your own not so important person, between the worlds. It's about the opening of Ard Gaeth, the big and steady gate that can be used by everyone. Before the conjunction we once managed to achieve that and we want to be able to do so again now. We will evacuate the Aen Seidhe from the dying world in which they live. Our brothers to whom we owe help. We couldn't live with the awareness that we missed something in order to save them. And we will save them, we will evacuate everyone who is threatened in this world. Everyone, Zirael. Even the humans."

Avallac'h telling Ciri about the White Frost in Andrzej Sapkowski, The Lady of the Lake

I blame Alvin. He thought it was the responsibility of Elder Blood folks like him to stop the Frost, and says as much in TW1 and

Spoiler

in his letter to Geralt in TW3.

Obviously he found Ciri between 'Lady of the Lake' and TW1 and put it in her head to stop it. Just lucky he happened to be right.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Yes, unstoppable and inevitable climate change...According to Nimue it will happen in 3000 years, iirc...

You are correct. But remember that Nimue lives quite some years after the events in the books, more than 100 years later (~ 1373).

I blame Alvin. He thought it was the responsibility of Elder Blood folks like him to stop the Frost, and says as much in TW1 and

Spoiler

in his letter to Geralt in TW3.

Obviously he found Ciri between 'Lady of the Lake' and TW1 and put it in her head to stop it. Just lucky he happened to be right.

Too bad the books have parts which play a hundred years after Ciri's and Geralt's actions in TW3 and the White Frost is still a natural thread then. And how do you want to change nature itself anyway?

 

[sidv88]

You are correct. But remember that Nimue lives quite some years after the events in the books, more than 100 years later (~ 1380).



Too bad the books have parts which play a hundred years after Ciri's and Geralt's actions in TW3 and the White Frost is still a natural thread then. And how do you want to change nature itself anyway?

I guess Alvin was wrong. Geralt warned Ciri not to talk to those 'Order of the White Rose' folks, they always had crazy and useless ideas that they would try to impart to her. Sequel time!

 

[warbaby2]

Yes, unstoppable and inevitable climate change...According to Nimue it will happen in 3000 years, iirc...

If...

Spoiler

CIri didn't defeat it for good in the end, that is.

 

[Ljesnjanin]

If...

Ah...Well, Witcher 3 will be even better game without it, imho...
Chosen one...Meh...

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Yeah, it's a shame. Especially if you think about the mere fact that Sapkowski left behind tiny, but very promising bits of the "future", that could have been used and built upon by CDPR. Instead they just marginalized the whole thing in a way that is completely unfitting to the whole premise and setting of the Witcher saga... :dry:

 

[Ljesnjanin]

Yeah, it's a shame. Especially if you think about the mere fact that Sapkowski left behind tiny, but very promising bits of the "future", that could have been used and built upon by CDPR. Instead they just marginalized the whole thing in a way that is completely unfitting to the whole premise and setting of the Witcher saga...

Witcher 3 is fantastic...But is it book sequel? Not exactly. Is it Witcher 2 sequel? Again, not exactly.
It is something in between - White Frost included

 

[saricc]

Yeah the white frost was completely altered... Not only that but the White frost was not the reason why Avallac'h wanted to open the gate between the worlds. He wanted it open so the Aen'Elle could go back to conquering and genociding. So even his entire motivation was altered. Oh well, at the end of the day I think CD Projekt just wanted to tie up all the loose ends that they could, so they altered the white frost, Avallac'h, and the Aen'Elle a lot.

 

[warbaby2]

Yeah, it's a shame. Especially if you think about the mere fact that Sapkowski left behind tiny, but very promising bits of the "future", that could have been used and built upon by CDPR. Instead they just marginalized the whole thing in a way that is completely unfitting to the whole premise and setting of the Witcher saga... :dry:

Yea, I mean, defeating the Wild Hunt for good was neat, but the whole world saving stuff in the end did overdo it. At least it was ambiguous enough to keep people guessing what really happened.

Still, for such a rich story and world, that generally keeps it's narrative rooted in "reality", it was to "gamy" an ending...

 

[whiteroseblackthorn]

The white frost is a kind of natural force, much like an ice age.

I've written quite a bit about the White Frost and the elder blood here: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/thre...-mess-major-spoilers!!!?p=1761767#post1761767

In the books the elder blood can't "destroy" the White Frost. It's a force of nature no being - no matter how powerful - can destroy. It the books it was never the task or purpose of the elder blood to destroy the White Frost in the first place, but to open a steady gate between the worlds - the Ard Gaeth - in order to evacuate poeple to other worlds once the White Frost begins to consume the respective world.

Spoiler

"We have [...] more than good reason to assume that your world is in danger of annihilation. A climatic catastrophy of extreme scope. With your profound education you've surely heard of Aen Itlinn Speath, Itlina's prophecy. It relates to the White Frost. We think that it means a strong glaciation. And since 90 percent of the main land of your world are located on the northern hemisphere a glaciation can threaten the very existence of most beings. They will just die of cold. Those who will survive will descend into chaos, wiping each other out in merciless struggles for food, becoming the prey of predators mad of hunger themselves. Remember the wording of the prohecy: time of contempt, time of axe, time of wolve storms... [...]
The child we care about so much, the descendent of Lara Dorren and bearer of her gene which was specially built by us can save the inhabitants of this world. We have reason to believe that Lara's descendent - and yours, naturally - will have abilities at their command that will be more than a thousand times stronger than ours, the ones of the Sages. And which you have at your command as well, in a rudimentary form.[...] It's about the possibility to not only be able to transport yourself, your own not so important person, between the worlds. It's about the opening of Ard Gaeth, the big and steady gate that can be used by everyone. Before the conjunction we once managed to achieve that and we want to be able to do so again now. We will evacuate the Aen Seidhe from the dying world in which they live. Our brothers to whom we owe help. We couldn't live with the awareness that we missed something in order to save them. And we will save them, we will evacuate everyone who is threatened in this world. Everyone, Zirael. Even the humans."

Avallac'h telling Ciri about the White Frost in Andrzej Sapkowski, The Lady of the Lake

My only problem with it being a natural force like an ice age, is that if it is some kind of force like climate change, why does it happen with every world everyone goes to, and also never end (as far as I am aware)? Could it possibly be some sort of "aftereffect" of using the "natural force" of magic itself? Or like game of thrones, is caused by some otherworldly being like the white walkers, just no one knows about them? Obviously no one in the witcher world itself knows at this point, at least that has been revealed. As the game itself takes place after the books, and CDPR continues to bring this up in the game as a major event, i'd imagine at some point this will be explained further, maybe in the expansion DLC that is coming. I've always been facinated about the white frost, since Alvin (and the man beasts lol), and I wasn't expecting them to bring it back up again in this game, at least as the "ultimate evil to destroy". All in all, a very interesting topic

 

[keldrath]

My only problem with it being a natural force like an ice age, is that if it is some kind of force like climate change, why does it happen with every world everyone goes to, and also never end (as far as I am aware)? Could it possibly be some sort of "aftereffect" of using the "natural force" of magic itself? Or like game of thrones, is caused by some otherworldly being like the white walkers, just no one knows about them? Obviously no one in the witcher world itself knows at this point, at least that has been revealed. As the game itself takes place after the books, and CDPR continues to bring this up in the game as a major event, i'd imagine at some point this will be explained further, maybe in the expansion DLC that is coming. I've always been facinated about the white frost, since Alvin (and the man beasts lol), and I wasn't expecting them to bring it back up again in this game, at least as the "ultimate evil to destroy". All in all, a very interesting topic

That relates to the heat death of the universe.

 

[sidv88]

Yeah the white frost was completely altered... Not only that but the White frost was not the reason why Avallac'h wanted to open the gate between the worlds. He wanted it open so the Aen'Elle could go back to conquering and genociding. So even his entire motivation was altered. Oh well, at the end of the day I think CD Projekt just wanted to tie up all the loose ends that they could, so they altered the white frost, Avallac'h, and the Aen'Elle a lot.

I took Avallac'h's new motivation to be part of his change of heart between 'Lady of the Lake' and TW3. Obviously there's some missing story pieces there where he gets together with Ciri and joins the "good guys". Unless Avallac'h is claiming now that stopping the White Frost was *always* his intention? I could have missed that part, and if Avallac'h said that he's obviously lying.

 

[lwp]

Yea, I mean, defeating the Wild Hunt for good was neat, but the whole world saving stuff in the end did overdo it. At least it was ambiguous enough to keep people guessing what really happened.

Yep. As soon as Ciri appeared behind Avallac'h and said 'this was my idea' I groaned. Here comes the world savey nonsense. Didn't ruin the story, but it could have been great not just good. The changes to Avallac'h's motivations and the WF kind of through me for a loop.

 

[inanimate_object]

That relates to the heat death of the universe.

The White Frost is not the moment of maximum entropy. Instead it as a very very very small gravitational shift in the planet's orbit around the sun. Or so Sapkowski has described it.