Silent or Voiced Protagonist?

[Sydanyo]

On the topic of dialogue in games...

What I hate is when the dialogue tree is done half-assed; when you've got a tree that starts with A, B, C, D and E, then A leads to AA1 and AA2, and AA1 leads to it's own branch and so on. Then once you're done with one of the branches, you have to start the whole damn dialogue again, because you missed some things, and because the dialogue is still showing that option in a different color, telling you there's stuff there you haven't read or listened to.

Also, when you do go through it again, you hear the same shit, when you shouldn't. For example:

First time you want to ask an NPC something, you'll go "Can I ask you something?"
The next time you want to ask an NPC something, you should go "Hey, can I ask you something else?"

Or for example:

First time you go "Hey, could you tell me about X?"
And the next time you ask that, it should be "Hey, I'm sorry but could you tell me about X again?"

Intelligently built dialogue trees is what's missing in so many games. It's so frustrating to go through them, when I know they could easily be made better (you could make dialogue trees yourself in the NWN editor), if you just spent a bit of time on it, making the "re-discussion" logic a bit better. Sure, it would be a bit of more time and resources spent, but man would it be nice.

Also, when you go through a dialogue option completely once, it should go under a new dialogue option at the very end. Something like "Hey, remember that one topic we covered once..." That way you'd know exactly what you've read and listened through, and you'd know what are new things. Even though they're usually colored, making the dialogue tree more intelligent could only be a good thing.

On the topic of fresh dialogue, there should be some. If you talk to person X and exhaust his dialogue options, then come back a year later and he's got nothing new to say... Man. Wouldn't it be better if he'd have at least one new story to tell?

As far as silent or voiced protagonists go, I'm all for having a voiced one. The problem with dialogue is though, Cyberpunk 2077 most likely has a very thick lingo we can't really follow without subtitles, and if it's done properly, the English used is more towards Panglish now; a mishmash of several languages, and an evolved language in itself.

 

[Yngh]

C. MacLeod, you basically covered everything that bothers me about standard RPG dialogue structure. However, you realise that even basic questions that are worded differently have to be recorded? It's not cheap and it's time-consuming. The devs are also limited when they want to make small changes to some conversations, because that means that they need additional recordings. In my book, text gives much more flexibility.

Do take note that there is a difference between having a great deal of dialogue and actually having actual choices that mean / lead to something. If a dialog choice has no real purpose except to give an illusion of more options, then it tends to be completely useless in my eyes.

Not necessarily. In case of dialogues that actually lead to option A/B/C, you are right - there should be no illusion of choice here (although note that even RPGs with full voice overs tend to do that). However, dialogues are also very important for immersion and even in case of standard conversations I like to have the ability to choose a sarcastic remark, to be gentle etc., even if it doesn't change the fate of the world. It's called "role-playing".

 

[Sydanyo]

However, you realise that even basic questions that are worded differently have to be recorded? It's not cheap and it's time-consuming.

I know. It's not only a problem with the protagonist dialogue, though. I would expect the NPC's to respond differently when you ask them about the same thing for the second time, let alone the 27th time. There should be some kind of a feeling of realism in those dialogues. So, those dialogues would have to be created and it would take money and time.

However, ask any voice actor, and they'll tell you it's a piece of cake these days. Well, that's at least how every single actor in Hollywood talks about their voice acting work. They show up in their jammies, no make-up, they go in a booth and they read a bunch of lines off a card. So, adding 10-15% more lines for the sake of making the dialogue a bit better shouldn't raise the price of voice actors that much, nor would the writing of those dialogues in text form.

Making anything better in a game costs money and takes time. I guess it's just a case of what the developers have prioritized.

 

[Chewin3]

Not necessarily. In case of dialogues that actually lead to option A/B/C, you are right - there should be no illusion of choice here (although note that even RPGs with full voice overs tend to do that). However, dialogues are also very important for immersion and even in case of standard conversations I like to have the ability to choose a sarcastic remark, to be gentle etc., even if it doesn't change the fate of the world. It's called "role-playing".

Certainly, a silent protagonist tends to offer more variety in roleplaying aspects when it comes to dialog, which usually is more restricted to voiced ones. But there are instances where several options leads to the same outcome no matter what you choose, which I personally loathe. Ultimately it is subjective.

 

[Yngh]

The point is that the text with no audio makes things so much easier and cheaper. In case of Planescape: Torment, for example, creating a quest with many lines of text and complex choices was mostly limited by your imagination. Now you have to hire actors and they need to do a pretty good job in order to create convincing characters. Note that it concerns DLCs and mods, too. It becomes harder to make them, which is bad...

But there are instances where several options leads to the same outcome no matter what you choose, which I personally loathe

True, but as I said, this is what sometimes happens in games with full voice overs, too. There are many instances in Mass Effect when talking is only done for RP purposes, as you will have to fight no matter what... and it's not always a bad thing, although I'm usually in favour of many possible outcomes, of course.

 

[Chewin3]

True, but as I said, this is what sometimes happens in games with full voice overs, too. There are many instances in Mass Effect when talking is only done for RP purposes, as you will have to fight no matter what... and it's not always a bad thing, although I'm usually in favour of many possible outcomes, of course.

With voiced characters that is often the case, and I agree silent has a lot more versatility in that field.

But I wouldn't take ME as an example, since Shepard is an idiot who primarily focuses on taking down his / her enemies with violence.

 

[d1am0ndback]

Depends. If a voiced protagonist means that we will get fewer dialogue options, then I think that it would be better to have a silent one. A poorly selected actor could actually ruin the experience for me...

^This

Seems like a voiced actor would limit our character, hinder us instead as well as ruin the immersion.

 

[username_3644576]

I think this topic touches a much deeper question - whether you want a character that has strong, unique personality and background story (such as Geralt from the witcher games) or a generic, blank-slate character such as in TES games.

The first option offers more depth to storytelling and typically allows more interesting plots. The second one makes it more difficult to create an interesting, emotionally engaging story but it does give the players more room for imagination and personal roleplaying. Of course those are two extremes and anything in between is possible. For example VTM:Bloodlines had a pretty interesting plot despite silent protagonist, but the result of the latter was that the story didn't feel very personal.

Given the CDP's track record so far, I'd say they should concentrate on what they're good at - the storytelling, emotions and moral dilemmas. Go with strong, fully voiced protagonists for each class. Some people might dislike it, but that's what mods are for. It's easier to mod the personality out of the protagonist and leave a blank slate character than build the main protagonist's identity from scrach via a mod. Given the voicework and adjustments to the main plot that would be needed, I'd argue it's not even possible.

 

[solidillusion]

Voiced would be the best option

 

[testsubject013]

Voice or silent doesn’t matter to me. What does matter is a strong rich varied dialogue system like FNV had everything from S.P.E.C.I.A.L to skills to perks to which faction likes you could change the dialogue.

 

[Overdosing]

Voice or silent doesn’t matter to me. What does matter is a strong rich varied dialogue system like FNV had everything from S.P.E.C.I.A.L to skills to perks to which faction likes you could change the dialogue.

This.

 

[Aditya]

No, voiced does matter. I don't remember anyone except Link or Gordon Freeman being memorable, or is it just me? Corvo in Dishonored came close but that kind of did ruined it for me and the same goes for The Warden from DAO or Dovahkiin. I mean, that doesn't guarantee the character will be great or memorable, but making silent takes away that essential aspect of it. Just my opinion.

And coming here, what does the last option even mean for fuck's sake?

 

[Garrison72]

No, voiced does matter. I don't remember anyone except Link or Gordon Freeman being memorable, or is it just me? Corvo in Dishonored came close but that kind of did ruined it for me and the same goes for The Warden from DAO or Dovahkiin. I mean, that doesn't guarantee the character will be great or memorable, but making silent takes away that essential aspect of it. Just my opinion.

And coming here, what does the last option even mean for fuck's sake?

You're becoming quite the potty mouth lately Aditya. Too much time around me.

Yeah, Corvo could have been something special, but instead he was a cipher. I know some gamers use the argument of imagination regarding silent PC's, but I don't really buy it. For me, it's all in the quality of writing anyway and a good voice actor simply brings it to life.

 

[testsubject013]

My main point is that dialogue needs to be diverse and reflect player choices whether the PC is a blank slate or a predefine character. Each has their advantages and disadvantages.
Voice or silent is a matter of preference just like vanilla or chocolate

 

[Sardukhar]

My main point is that dialogue needs to be diverse and reflect player choices whether the PC is a blank slate or a predefine character. Each has their advantages and disadvantages.
Voice or silent is a matter of preference just like vanilla or chocolate

If only this were so. If only our fellow gamers had this perspective of yours - content over presentation. Can you imagine such a world?

Instead I give you The Old Republic. "Every NPC is voiced! It's so amazing! Finally!" Or Oblivion/Skyrim: "Voices! Voices!"

And content? We-ell. Hardcore players care about your dialogue choices and how they change things. And I give you Alpha Protocol.

 

[Sydanyo]

content over presentation

Substance over Style?

Really, Sardukhar?

 

[Sardukhar]

I...am a traitor to the game. Execute me immediately.

Actually, that's the one CPunk motto I always ignored, since I preferred to have the character that got noticed the least, usually.

 

[Sydanyo]

Not being noticed can be, and is, Style. Excuses man!

 

[Sirnaq]

The biggest problem with games where you can create your character is that if you want to give him voice you won't be able to cover everything, some gamers want to play female character, some gamers want to play crazy character etc.. I think that the best solution is to just make predefined character that you can customize by giving him class stats etc. kinda like in gothic or torment. Second solution is to just let player design his character but keep him silent.

 

[gregski]

Let's keep in mind that the game will come out somewhere in 2015 and the so called production value factor AT THAT TIME might not even considere something like a silent protagonist. We're talking about AAA+ game here, based on a setting beloved by millions with the hype level way over 9000.