Yennefer of Vengerberg (all spoilers)

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I should first preface this by saying that I have only played the games and have not read the books (they are on order). I also chose Yennefer in the game. I'm also wondering why there are so many posts about Yennefer v. Triss on here and other forums as if people need to justify why they choose one or the other. In the interest of being mildly hypocritical, I am just throwing my hat in with the rest of you.

That being said, I felt Yennefer was a much deeper character. Let me explain what I mean: Triss came off as being more of a 'game character', that is, typically cute, friendly, and, for the most part, riding the coat tails of our much beloved protagonist, Geralt. This combined with her good looks and the assumed ginger obsession, probably seems like the more obvious choice for a lot of people, hence the great lengths people are going through in order to acquire additional content for her. I can understand this. But, and maybe this is just strange game mechanics, there are instances where Triss' character seems flat, one-dimensional and lacking depth due to her more 'game character' attributes. You don't really get a sense, at least in the third game, that there is a rich history between them even though there is, at least according to the games (which is what I am drawing references from).

There is also the observation made about Geralt losing his memory and that he would be able to choose his romantic interest anew. This would all make sense EXCEPT for the fact that Geralt fully regains his memory in the second game. We are never really told what that means and perhaps that is simply a deficiency in the narration.

Now before the hordes of Triss avatars descend on me, hear me out: I understand why you like her. I like her too. I just find that her character is just a little too typical and possessing too many 'game character' traits to keep me interested. There are hints of some complex situations that occurred, mostly in the second game, in their relationship but, for the most part, if you remember many of their interactions it came off as being more of a perpetual dating scenario rather than a meaningful relationship. Perhaps this is due to Triss obsessing over Geralt but her true interests lay at court and the scene on the docks where she is pursuing her 'dream job' and fleeing a real hell is only altered if you truly confess your feelings for her, then she just decides to stay. There should just be more tension in this scene, on the one hand she has this great job awaiting her and the promise of a better life and on the other hand she has the person she supposedly loves who is also trying to find and save a sister-like figure to Triss. Instead, the scene is rather flat, you either tell her you love her, or the more subtle "Stay with me" with some other strategic prompts to get her to stay. This scene should have had more depth, but because she comes off more as a 'game character', it is cut and dry.

As someone mentioned in this thread, Yennefer is a maze and Triss is more linear. I think that speaks volumes to my point.

Now, let's discuss Yennefer. I can see how people see her personality as being abrasive, complicated, and difficult. But she just comes off as a much deeper character. You can see, or maybe not see for some, that she has a troubled past, that she has some real issues outside of Geralt, that she has become cynical with the world, and that there is a much deeper history between the two of them rather than the 'perpetual dating scenario' that you find with Triss and Geralt. This can come off as bitchiness, but I didn't see it that way (and I also didn't read the books). It came off as being more real.

I fight with my wife all the time, we have both had difficult pasts and we are both very different people and perhaps because of this, I resonated with Yennefer far more. I can see that underlying their relationship, there is something more, something deeper, but that the vagaries of circumstance and the complexities present on the continent have forced both of them to adapt thereby making their relationship much more multifaceted than a cut and dry romance. There is history there and you can see it. There are two different personalities there and you can see it. There are two philosophical systems at play within each of them and you can see it. You can see what might be observed as 'contradictory forces', but often, as in literature, relationships of this nature become far deeper, and far richer because of it. So while on the surface, she can just seem like she is trying to control Geralt or give him a hard time, it's believable, and you can also see in other instances when the facade weakens and her true feelings come forth. All of this made me like her all the more because she seemed like a far more believable person than the alternatives.

I don't think there is any warranted criticism for people that pick Triss, but I also don't understand the shallow interpretations that people have of Yennefer. Maybe people prefer the simpler option of the two: one that just wants to be with you, comes off as being more friendly of the two, doesn't really give you a hard time, and is generally the 'cutsey, girl next door, damsel in distress' kind of vibe. I get it, I really do. But for me, and I think for several others (especially those on this thread, not to mention the people that have a broader sense of the total lore of the world and the protagonist in particular) can see the forest for the trees and others are only looking at surface level characteristics and behaviors without ever questioning why they might be there.

If you want to pick Triss just because she is more your type, then that makes sense to me. If you want to pick Triss just because 'you hate Yennefer and think she's a bitch', that seems rather silly, for there is far more than meets the eye.

I think that is enough for this wall of text.

Happy Trails.

Bless this post
 
snip*
I think that is enough for this wall of text.

Happy Trails.

Thank you for this post. It's nice to see someone who doesn't have the background of having read the books grasp the relationship between Yen and Geralt. As for Criticizing Triss, there are good reasons for those that have read the books to dislike her, and her game representation is a bit different and feels "forced" like they favored her and tried to change her into a "more healthy relationship" option for Geralt. There's good reasons to like her as well, but having read the books, it gave me a less favorable viewpoint on her.
 
I disagree, when Yen is curing UMA, shows me how altruistic she is, for me she is the kind of person who talks a lot, most ot the time is annoying, but when you knows better, you see how her actions are fullfilled with love.

I had no doubts about who Geralts should romance after that scene, i imagined the Lady of the Lake ending :crybaby::crybaby::crybaby:

If Erimond hadn't been there, a lot of people would have died. She also desecrated Ciri's friend's body.

Yennefer would burn the world to save Ciri.

And Ciri would rather die than hurt anyone.
 
If Erimond hadn't been there, a lot of people would have died. She also desecrated Ciri's friend's body.

Yennefer would burn the world to save Ciri.

And Ciri would rather die than hurt anyone.

Geralt would also burn the world to save ciri, they are the same in that regard.
 
Geralt would also burn the world to save ciri, they are the same in that regard.

You can very deliberately choose to subvert this and this is a major part of Ciri living, actually.

Ciri will kill herself if she believes it will save others.
 
The Relationsship between Geralt and Yen felt for me like a maze.
After the last wish, which opened a door for them, they were captured in that maze and it took them so many frustrating years to actually find each other.
CDPR opened a door for a Triss/Geralt Relationship, but for me it felt like a straight road.
Which one is better? I don't know honestly.
Walking a straight road is easier, but finding the exit in a maze is so much more satisfying.

Well, maybe i am also little bit exaggerating with the 50:50. When they are actually together, they are making quite a good pair and you can also see that they are happy, even more than that, it's just this doesn't hold forever and both are unable to deal with those problems. Maybe because they never had something like that before like ever.

And when they part their way, it's usually without many words until they meet again and even then, it's also usually without much fuss.

So it's more like 70% happy, 29% not together and 1% actually an exchange of opinion, which could be the reason for their problems ;)

I have not read the books so my impression of Yennifer is based almost entire on how she is portrayed in the game and with that comes a lack of investment and interest in her character going into the game. She is often referred to as an ice-queen here on the forums, and from my understanding she is very popular among those who have read the book(s). This is something I find a bit puzzling to be honest, reading about peoples impression of the character in the game seems to indicate that CDPR captured Yennifer very well and most people feel she accurately depicted. Which would mean that she is equally cruel in the books as in the game, and I have never understood why cruelty, selfishness and a cold demeanor are attractive traits? Maybe some guys have a submissive streak and what such a domineering lady? Geralt certainly allows himself to be "guided" and "castrated" by her.

That being said, I enjoyed her very much in this game, her part in the overall plot and as an interesting fictional character, just not as a person.

Hm, i think the biggest problem is that her "transformation" was in the books and CDPR couldn't do that again in one single game, that would result in having like 10 quests solely based on her or approx. 10-15 hours only to explain her character, how do you think would the Triss-fans react to that? :D

The book reader already knows who she was and how she changed and by what.

The same goes for Ciri,
i have read how she grew up,
i read how she lost her home,
i read how she lost her family,
i read how she looked up at Geralt and Yennefer and saw more than just 2 people, namely a new family,
i read how she went through terrible, terrible things and this also counts for Yennefer and Geralt of course too.

You think you saw in the game how Yennefer tries everything to save Ciri? She would have moved a mountain in the books, if she had to. She was willing and ready to fight against the whole lodge all at once, because the lodge didn't want to let her go.

She had barely any information where Ciri could be, so she went to the only place that could lead to a trail and she almost died doing that.

Triss isn't the only one being tortured for Ciri, Yennefer
was tortured for weeks without someone in the next room saving her.
I don't want to downplay what Triss did, but CDPR did that not without any ulterior motives.


About the cruelity, as someone already posted she prevented a miscarriage of a woman, she didn't do that for money or for a better conscience, she did it, because she could and wanted to help.

I am one of those lucky guys, who played the two games first, then read all books and played the games again, and again, and again. It felt like two new games just by knowing more and back then characters like Yennefer and Ciri weren't still anywhere, heck even Geralt wasn't the same and still it felt like i knew him forever already. It changed my stance to the games, the world, the characters and my respect to CDPR how they achieved that sensation.


That seems to be the arguement everyone uses. "I should read the books". But this isn't a book this is a game, and as far as I know it did not come with a note from CDPR telling me that in order to fully enjoy the game I need to have read the books. The game(s) stand on its own separated from the books, which means that its story and characters are evaluated based on their actions within the game universe. And in the game she isn't very nice, and even if I had read the books and in them Yennifer was the sweetest, kindest and gentlest person it would not make her actions in the game any less cruel.

Was it cruel to use the Trial of Grasses on Uma? Yes, but it worked, while every other method failed. She didn't do it to be cruel, but because it was necessary.

Was it cruel that she disturbed the memorial ceremony? Yes, but as she says, "while you mourn for the dead, i am looking for the living. One can't be saved anymore, but the other can, so please help us good people." She is telling that to the people, who threw a dead body onto a pile of waste !!!

She isn't cruel, because she wants to, but because it is sometimes necessary. We have a saying in german, "Die Welt ist kein Ponyhof", which would be translated into "life isn't easy", but it means literally "the world isn't a pony farm", which is despite looking strange a better despiction.
A pony farm is cute, warm, pleasant, everything seems so easy and fluffy, but life isn't that cute, warm and pleasant. Life can be a bitch sometimes or even often, sometimes for weeks before it gets better again.
Sometimes you have to be consequent, mean or even cruel. Not because you want it, but because you has to. Being consequent towards a child or a sibling, sometimes being mean to someone, who is always asking for your help and never tries it on his/her own first. Being cruel and saying 'no' to someone, who is exploiting you at work.

The world is simply not a pony farm.

Yennefer can live with hate and antipathy, she always had. She doesn't care what a random guy in a town thinks she is, why should she?

Geralt was the first and maybe the only one looking past that facade and it took time for him to cause a crack to that facade.
 
You can very deliberately choose to subvert this and this is a major part of Ciri living, actually.

Ciri will kill herself if she believes it will save others.

Ciri living has nothing to do with Geralt doing whatever it takes to save her. It has to do with Geralt developing her self confidence and letting her make decisions for herself. Just because your kid leaves the nest doesn't mean you have to stop keeping them safe no matter what. Geralt would still do anything for Ciri's safety, but he also knows that he has to let her make her own decisions or otherwise that safety is meaningless.
 
She also desecrated Ciri's friend's body.

You mean the one the town folks threw on a pile of waste later? But i have to say that i don't understand, why they (Geralt & Yennefer) couldn't just bury him, maybe they thought the town folk will deal with him and give him a proper burial, which they didn't...


@dzbrown
really nice to read, also to see that it is indeed possible to look behind her facade and understand her character even without reading the books, which most oft us can't, as we have read them and you can't undo that.
So i kinda regret not having played Witcher 3 before reading the books, but at the same time i don't regret reading the books, best winter ever :)
 
You mean the one the town folks threw on a pile of waste later? But i have to say that i don't understand, why they (Geralt & Yennefer) couldn't just bury him, maybe they thought the town folk will deal with him and give him a proper burial, which they didn't...


@dzbrown
really nice to read, also to see that it is indeed possible to look behind her facade and understand her character even without reading the books, which most oft us can't, as we have read them and you can't undo that.
So i kinda regret not having played Witcher 3 before reading the books, but at the same time i don't regret reading the books, best winter ever :)

Thanks. I was just telling it like I see it. I have a thing for deep, complicated women. After the exchange in Vizima, which was perceived by some as 'cold and offputting', I knew I had to get to know her more. I had an inkling there was a real gem beneath that troubled exterior. I suppose it also helps that I find her incredibly attractive and mysterious...

So, I ordered the books the other day and I'm really looking forward to reading them. Unfortunately, the last two books have yet to be translated into English. I saw that you are German, but I was just wondering if you (or someone else) know if the fan translations are decent? That at least would help me wrap it up as I usually read books rather quickly, especially ones that I'm really interested in. From reading various forum topics on the matter, it seems the appropriate order--and please let me know if it isn't--is: Last Wish; Sword of Destiny; Blood of the Elves; Time of Contempt; Baptism of Fire; The Swallow's Tower; Lady of the Lake; and Season of Storms.

Thanks for starting the thread!
 
In the quest Child of the Elder Blood, Geralt mentions human mages experimenting on those with the Elder Blood. Ciri then asks Yennefer if she was involved in the experiments.

What gets me here is Yennefer's expression when she says 'of course not'. To me, it looked incredibly guilty. Was there something from the books or games I am missing? Don't seem to recall anything...yet the game seems to suggest she did.

Thoughts?
 
Thanks. I was just telling it like I see it. I have a thing for deep, complicated women. After the exchange in Vizima, which was perceived by some as 'cold and offputting', I knew I had to get to know her more. I had an inkling there was a real gem beneath that troubled exterior. I suppose it also helps that I find her incredibly attractive and mysterious...

So, I ordered the books the other day and I'm really looking forward to reading them. Unfortunately, the last two books have yet to be translated into English. I saw that you are German, but I was just wondering if you (or someone else) know if the fan translations are decent? That at least would help me wrap it up as I usually read books rather quickly, especially ones that I'm really interested in. From reading various forum topics on the matter, it seems the appropriate order--and please let me know if it isn't--is: Last Wish; Sword of Destiny; Blood of the Elves; Time of Contempt; Baptism of Fire; The Swallow's Tower; Lady of the Lake; and Season of Storms.

Thanks for starting the thread!

I read the English fan translations. They aren't perfect, the lady of the lake especially is full of grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, but you still get the message just fine.
 
In the quest Child of the Elder Blood, Geralt mentions human mages experimenting on those with the Elder Blood. Ciri then asks Yennefer if she was involved in the experiments.

What gets me here is Yennefer's expression when she says 'of course not'. To me, it looked incredibly guilty. Was there something from the books or games I am missing? Don't seem to recall anything...yet the game seems to suggest she did.

Thoughts?

Oh yeah, she was absolutely involved. Yennefer and Triss were up to their eyeballs in shady stuff.

---------- Updated at 12:57 AM ----------

Ciri living has nothing to do with Geralt doing whatever it takes to save her. It has to do with Geralt developing her self confidence and letting her make decisions for herself. Just because your kid leaves the nest doesn't mean you have to stop keeping them safe no matter what. Geralt would still do anything for Ciri's safety, but he also knows that he has to let her make her own decisions or otherwise that safety is meaningless.

Yes, which means respecting putting her life in danger and that means not saying, "Burn the world to save Ciri" because if you do that, you have defamed everything Ciri stands for and made a mockery of her life.

The Witcher is wonderfully complex that way.
 
Oh yeah, she was absolutely involved. Yennefer and Triss were up to their eyeballs in shady stuff.

---------- Updated at 12:57 AM ----------



Yes, which means respecting putting her life in danger and that means not saying, "Burn the world to save Ciri" because if you do that, you have defamed everything Ciri stands for and made a mockery of her life.

The Witcher is wonderfully complex that way.

No neither Yennefer or Triss was involved in that.
 
incredibly attractive and mysterious...

Yeah, that helps ;)

Last Wish; Sword of Destiny; Blood of the Elves; Time of Contempt; Baptism of Fire; The Swallow's Tower; Lady of the Lake; and Season of Storms.

It is the right order.
Last Wish
Sword of Destiny

are mostly short stories, but they lead into the saga with
Blood of the Elves
Time of Contempt
Baptism of Fire
The Swallow's Tower
Lady of the Lake


while Season of Storms is the newest book in almost 15 years. It will be also take a while before all the remaining books are officially translated in english, i think 2017 is the release of the last book. But as i just saw, spektroskopista is translating it and has already covered more than 120 pages, really not bad.

There are also 2 non-canon short stories:
one about Geralt's maybe parents (can't find the correct english name for it)
and Something ends, something begins
They aren't necessary for the world, but especially the latter one is pure fanservice for a book reader. Sapkowski says explicitly that both stories shouldn't be considered as canon.

Well, as you have seen, i am "working" with the fan translations, so i have read quite a bit of it. They aren't perfect, but they are if i remember correctly translated from polish, so there are as close as possible to the original. Some of the wit and subtlety of the polish langauge is still lost, but that's probably inevitable.

I read the English fan translations. They aren't perfect, the lady of the lake especially is full of grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, but you still get the message just fine.

Yeah, i noticed that too, but you can live with it. There were times, where from 7 books back then only 2 were officially translated in english, so it could be worse :)

In the quest Child of the Elder Blood, Geralt mentions human mages experimenting on those with the Elder Blood. Ciri then asks Yennefer if she was involved in the experiments.

What gets me here is Yennefer's expression when she says 'of course not'. To me, it looked incredibly guilty. Was there something from the books or games I am missing? Don't seem to recall anything...yet the game seems to suggest she did.

Thoughts?

She is indeed involved in it as almost all members of the lodge, but that was way before Ciri was even born. It's so long ago, i would assume more than 60-70 years, maybe even more. Probably started even before Yennefer was born (so ~100 years ago), in the meanwhile they even gave up on that idea to create a child with Elder Blood. As far as i know they don't go much more into details, so it's a bit shady.

Ciri has royal blood and it is no surprise that she had powers in any way, as all women in her family had some kind of power, be it magic or some kind of aura. Therefore nobody really suspected that she is destined to much more.

---------- Updated at 03:13 AM ----------

No neither Yennefer or Triss was involved in that.

Nah, well, "involved" is maybe the wrong word. It wasn't like Yennefer or Triss were in a lab and doing experiments with blood samples, but the council/brotherhood or whatever underground group they had back then was involved in it or let's say they investigated in it. Yennefer being in a higher position probably knew things.
 
Oh yeah, she was absolutely involved. Yennefer and Triss were up to their eyeballs in shady stuff.

---------- Updated at 12:57 AM ----------



Yes, which means respecting putting her life in danger and that means not saying, "Burn the world to save Ciri" because if you do that, you have defamed everything Ciri stands for and made a mockery of her life.

The Witcher is wonderfully complex that way.

I don't know about that. It seems to me that Ciri just wants to be a normal person. She doesn't want to save everyone. I mean not only does she state this multiple times throughout the game, but at the end of the books she literally abandons the world to its own fate (she leaves it to die by the white frost). Also you have to realize that Ciri willingly joined a group of bandits during the books. It's not like those bandits were good, either. At the end of the day Ciri just wants independence and the right to choose her own destiny.
 
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Thanks. I was just telling it like I see it. I have a thing for deep, complicated women. After the exchange in Vizima, which was perceived by some as 'cold and offputting', I knew I had to get to know her more. I had an inkling there was a real gem beneath that troubled exterior. I suppose it also helps that I find her incredibly attractive and mysterious...

So, I ordered the books the other day and I'm really looking forward to reading them. Unfortunately, the last two books have yet to be translated into English. I saw that you are German, but I was just wondering if you (or someone else) know if the fan translations are decent? That at least would help me wrap it up as I usually read books rather quickly, especially ones that I'm really interested in. From reading various forum topics on the matter, it seems the appropriate order--and please let me know if it isn't--is: Last Wish; Sword of Destiny; Blood of the Elves; Time of Contempt; Baptism of Fire; The Swallow's Tower; Lady of the Lake; and Season of Storms.

Thanks for starting the thread!
I read all of the books entirely through the fan translations (English) and I thought they were great. You just have to tolerate some one word typos (like every 10-20 pages).
 
Nah, well, "involved" is maybe the wrong word. It wasn't like Yennefer or Triss were in a lab and doing experiments with blood samples, but the council/brotherhood or whatever underground group they had back then was involved in it or let's say they investigated in it. Yennefer being in a higher position probably knew things.

It was Tissaia de Vries, Augusta Wagner, Leticia Charonneau, Hen Gedymdeith, and Francesca Findabair that were involved with it.

It's talked about in Baptism of Fire in Chapter 6.
 
It was Tissaia de Vries, Augusta Wagner, Leticia Charonneau, Hen Gedymdeith, and Francesca Findabair that were involved with it.

Yup, but..
‘This is what I mean,’ she said coldly, pointed to the chaos of the fruit. ‘For these are the possible genetic combinations. And we know only what we see here. That is, nothing. Your mistake has been avenged, Francesca, by producing an avalanche of mistakes. The gene appeared by chance, after a hundred years, during which events may have occurred, of which we have no knowledge. Events kept secret, hidden, covered up. Children of premarital, extramarital, secret adoption, even swapped. Incest. Crossbreeding, the blood of forgotten ancestors which then revives in later generations. To conclude: a hundred years ago you had the gene in your hand and it escaped you.
Mistake, Enid, mistake, mistake! Too much spontaneity, too many accidents. Too little control, too little interference with chance.’
‘We were not,’ Enid an Gleanna, pursed her lips, ‘dealing with rabbits, which can be locked in a cage and their parks chosen for them.’
Fringilla, following the gaze of Triss Merigold, saw Yennefer’s hands clench suddenly the carved arms of her chair.

This is what now unites Yennefer and Francesca, Triss thought feverishly, still avoiding eye contact. The calculation. Because, what they did had something to do with parks and breeding rabbits. Yes, their plans for Ciri and Kovir’s king, although seemingly unlikely, are completely real. They have already done this. They place who they want on the thrones, they create links and dynasties as they wished, as it is more convenient for them. The used charms, potions and aphrodisiacs. The kings and queens enter into foreign marriages, often morganatic, against any plan, intentions and treaties. And then those who want children and should not are administered secret measures to prevent pregnancy. Those who did not want to have children, but it was necessary to do so are instead or the promised cured were given placebos, water with licorice. Hence, all these incredible connections. Calanthe, Pavetta... Ciri. Yennefer was involved in it. And now regrets it. And she is right. Heck, if Geralt finds out about it...

[...]

She felt the eyes of Francesca and Philippa on her. Triss, however, whose gaze she was trying to attract, avoided her eyes. Damn, thought Yennefer, with effort keeping an indifferent expression on her face. What damn snare entangles this girl? Damn, how can I look in the witcher’s eyes…


Well and that's it. We don't learn much more than this about that. It is at least doubtful, whether, who and how much everyone is involved.
As i said Yennefer is 102 years old in Witcher 3, so if they stopped the research almost 100 years ago, she can't be much involved in it anyway. If a sorcerer has finished the training, s/he has to look for a job, that's means usually working for another sorcerer until the apprentice has finished his/her journeyman's examination. Tissia de Vries was the direct mentor of Yennefer, so it's no surprise that she got involved then, as she worked for her most likely.

I think that none of the younger (<150 years) sorcerers can be involved, just because of the time difference.
 
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