Serious question here: Are you going to be using the F.N.F.F. combat system, or a variation thereof in C.P 2077?
RLKing1969;n9320691 said:Serious question here: Are you going to be using the F.N.F.F. combat system, or a variation thereof in C.P 2077?
kofeiiniturpa;n9324891 said:Don't aim too high and you have the room for experimenting a bit more. Aim for those "casuals" and you are forced to play it safe. I do not think these "casuals" should not be targeted as an audience at all, they have the 90% of the industry in their pocket catering precisely to them already, and they will come around anyway if the design is good and the game starts "trending".
I do believe most people -- well if not most, a good lot anyway -- is open to giving a chance for new (to them) experiences if it is indeed well designed. Even if the it isn't directly aimed at them.
kofeiiniturpa;n9324891 said:Don't aim too high and you have the room for experimenting a bit more. Aim for those "casuals" and you are forced to play it safe. I do not think these "casuals" should be targeted as an audience at all, they have the 90% of the industry in their pocket catering precisely to them already, and they will come around anyway if the design is good and the game starts "trending".
I do believe most people -- well if not most, a good lot anyway -- is open to giving a chance for new (to them) experiences if it is indeed well designed. Even if the it isn't directly aimed at them.
Lisbeth_Salander;n9325611 said:To make the gameplay more acessible to the casuals means to make the gameplay less scary to them.
current CDPR's demographic.
Lisbeth_Salander;n9325611 said:You can't completely ignore a demographic and expect different results doing the same thing over and over again.
kofeiiniturpa;n9325771 said:In other words, more streamlined, prechewed and predigested. You can't win here unless that's what you want. It has been on the table for other developers too, several times (trying to make a complex game for a simple audience). Bethesda's excuse - for example - was that "there's a lot of complexity under the hood", which of course is useless to the player if it can't be played. Aiming dead in the middle is going to get both groups unhappy as it is basically the worst bits of both sides. You can't win here unless you take a clear stance towards either side. One of the sides is more profitable, though, as the other only loses them a segment. Or so it has seemed to be thus far. Clear stance, though, does not always mean complete contrary to the opposing stance; just a clear preference.
kofeiiniturpa;n9325771 said:That seems to me to be mostly storygoers and sightseers.
kofeiiniturpa;n9325771 said:Indeed. That's why I will eject immediately if this thing starts to turn sour. I've wasted enough time and money taking the bait in the past as a member of a starving segment of the market.
Lisbeth_Salander;n9325861 said:No hardcore in there you imply? Perhaps with CP2077 it will be different since they'll NEED to please CP2020 players, thus hardcores like you.
The real question is will we be able to complete the game on our own without markers and Batman-vision turned off but leave all that stuff to casual players?Suhiira;n9326691 said:Personally I'd be happy with an in-games map and journal but I know there's no way we'll see that. The question is how many of those casual gamer features can you not implement before you back yourself into a corner where only the "hard-core" (note: hard-core is a relative term in this instance as illustrated above) gamers will even buy your game?
Suhiira;n9326691 said:I don't expect CDPR to ignore casual gamers, but lets be real, that's never been their target audience. Most major publishers make games that (hopefully) sell well, CDPR makes good games and let the sales take care of themselves. Seems to work. Back in the "old days" we kept notebooks and graph paper beside PCs, and given we did exactly the same thing during out PnP games no one thought much about it. Then they started adding quest journals and in-game maps ... WOW! Talk about easy! Next people complained the maps weren't sufficient because they still had to open, and reopen, the quest journal to re-read the directions to get where they were going, and sometimes got lost. So quest markers started showing up. Then people complained because their maps were cluttered with markers and it was sometimes difficult to find the one you wanted. So now we add quest filtering and arrows. But of course then people complained they had to read the journal to find the quest they wished and highlight it, and they could still get lost because getting from point A to B is rarely a straight line. So now we add route markers. But of course there are always those people that skip cut scenes thus have no idea what they're suppose to do once they get to the quest location ... so flashing highlights on each object you have to interact with and/or step-by-step directions on what to do when. As you see, each step above made things easier, and more accessible to the casual gamer. To the point these days if they aren't included people that want to play a game, but not be bothered with paying too much attention to anything but fighting throw tantrums. Personally I'd be happy with an in-games map and journal but I know there's no way we'll see that. The question is how many of those casual gamer features can you not implement before you back yourself into a corner where only the "hard-core" (note: hard-core is a relative term in this instance as illustrated above) gamers will even buy your game?
metalmaniac21;n9328161 said:The real question is will we be able to complete the game on our own without markers and Batman-vision turned off but leave all that stuff to casual players? BTW, we weren't in Witcher 3 since detective vision was mandatory to trigger quest stages and the information from NPC and journals weren't sufficient enough. It's just that easy to realize.
Calistarius;n9326151 said:The feeling I get from CDPR is that they will make the game they feel they want to make... with some aspect of casual-friendlyness, but not to such a degree that it would go against their vision for the game. I mean if they had really truly gone very casual friendly with any of the Witcher games, then I have a feeling that they might have sold a lot more copies then they have... but the tone of the games would probably have been very different, and probably more leaning towards something like the Elder Scrolls series (especially from Oblivion and forward). So, as such... CDPR do not seem to feel that they neccessarily need to pull in absolutly everyone from the casual gaming crowd (they will probably try, but probably not to such a degree that the vision they have for the game is compromised)... and as such seem to have no problems in creating games which might not apeal to everyone in the casual gaming crowd... it is after all what they have done for their 3 Witcher games I feel.
kofeiiniturpa;n9327231 said:I don't consider myself "hardcore".
Playing TW3 with only the health bars, horse panic bar and breath bar was so much better than with all the other bells and whistles. If they keep it so all the other stuff can be left off, and make it so that directions in the journal/cut-scene make it so you can find where your supposed to go with some thought, I would love it. Addresses in a modern city would certainly help. I was fine for the most part with the way this was handled in TW3. Just make it so you can play it either way (which CDPR has already shown they can do for the most part).Suhiira;n9326691 said:I don't expect CDPR to ignore casual gamers, but lets be real, that's never been their target audience. Most major publishers make games that (hopefully) sell well, CDPR makes good games and let the sales take care of themselves. Seems to work.
Back in the "old days" we kept notebooks and graph paper beside PCs, and given we did exactly the same thing during out PnP games no one thought much about it. Then they started adding quest journals and in-game maps ... WOW! Talk about easy! Next people complained the maps weren't sufficient because they still had to open, and reopen, the quest journal to re-read the directions to get where they were going, and sometimes got lost. So quest markers started showing up. Then people complained because their maps were cluttered with markers and it was sometimes difficult to find the one you wanted. So now we add quest filtering and arrows. But of course then people complained they had to read the journal to find the quest they wished and highlight it, and they could still get lost because getting from point A to B is rarely a straight line. So now we add route markers. But of course there are always those people that skip cut scenes thus have no idea what they're suppose to do once they get to the quest location ... so flashing highlights on each object you have to interact with and/or step-by-step directions on what to do when.
As you see, each step above made things easier, and more accessible to the casual gamer. To the point these days if they aren't included people that want to play a game, but not be bothered with paying too much attention to anything but fighting throw tantrums.
Personally I'd be happy with an in-games map and journal but I know there's no way we'll see that. The question is how many of those casual gamer features can you not implement before you back yourself into a corner where only the "hard-core" (note: hard-core is a relative term in this instance as illustrated above) gamers will even buy your game?
Ideally, but as someone else mentioned elsewhere it's not as simple as just turning map markers off, a game has to be designed to be played without them, you need directions and landmarks in the mission descriptions (tho in the case of CP2077 inside the city a simple street address will work). Sure you can then turn off the map markers, but without such directions they're essential because there's no other way to find things.Lisbeth_Salander;n9328571 said:Given that casuals don't like complicated things, perhaps CDPR could make a game with all these "casual features" such as quest markers and flashing highlights to be implemented in a standardized version of the game, in other words, when pressing the start button and creating a new game such casual features would simply be there for players to play with them, but when accessing the game's configuration and options menu such features could be switched on and switched off AND in this same "menu" it would be possible for players to implement/switch on new "hardcore" features that were previously switched off in the standardized version of the game. Following this logic, the game would give the option for hardcore gamers to "personalize" such features to their liking, while casuals wouldn't even know that these options exist. Both demographics would be pleased..
Suhiira;n9330241 said:Ideally, but as someone else mentioned elsewhere it's not as simple as just turning map markers off, a game has to be designed to be played without them, you need directions and landmarks in the mission descriptions (tho in the case of CP2077 inside the city a simple street address will work). Sure you can then turn off the map markers, but without such directions they're essential because there's no other way to find things.
First off, I did not use those words... "selling out"... I have never liked the usage of "selling out" either... and I mean this in the sence of that I do not think someone sells out if they do things that most people conside to be "selling out". I don't blame anyone for wanting their stuff to reach a larger audience, and nore do I blame anyone for wanting to earn enough money (or more money) to keep doing what they are doing and all that... even if that happends to mean that maybe I end up not liking what was made due to it. So, like I said, I don't like using those words of "selling out" due to that. Also, don't take this entire paragraph as me jumping on you or something, I just wanted to explain why I do not like the usage of the words "selling out", and that I don't like either that it was suggested that I was using such a statement about anyone/thing. Think it was due to the music industry a long time ago that I started disliking when people used the statement that someone had sold out due to changing their sound or something, or that someone sold out because they suddenly became popular or something... it always annoyed me, and still do, when I see fans of a band start throwing arround statements like that... so I guess that then eventually bleed over to videogames as well... XDLisbeth_Salander;n9328571 said:Perhaps there are fellings involved, and based on interviews it seems that CDPR's employers have a huge artistic freedom. But usually, CEO's give that freedom a goal, to have an economical objective is necessary for the company. Based on past games, what you said about CDPR not selling out to the "casuals" is true, but now that they have their own place in the gaming industry one might wonder...given the opportunity to please a higher amount of players, shouldn't a company at least try to find such middle ground while still pleasing their current demographic?