Where are you going with cyberpunk ?

[Wolfskin75]

I, of course, would like a brief extension of time to spend more time with "V". I have thought about it a lot and will be more than happy to share where "I" would like to see the story go and with at least 2 of the endings we can spend a short amount of time with "V" again. Would I pay money to see these story ideas come to life? YES. Is that the way they are going to handle more Cyberpunk? realistically no. but a V player can dream.

 

[SigilFey]

I still think the best thing to do is add play time at the beginning of the game.

1.) Players create their character, go through the Lifepath intro, meet Jackie, and the montage plays out.

2.) Simple message by Jackie that he's going to check on something big -- really big. In the meantime, V should continue getting their names out there. It might take a while.

3.) Add in tons of non-linear, role-playing content. No time limit. The player can play as much or as little of the content as they want. When they're ready, they contact Jackie, and the main quest begins.

That would mean that players get to create and play V however they wish, get out and explore NC, and engage in "small-time" missions (which, of course, doesn't mean that they're simple or light -- just that none of the big players in NC give a shit.) It might be really, really cool to have Jackie be a part of some of these missions, all the while remaining tight-lipped about the "big" thing he's working on.

That could be a good segue into why someone like Dex would call on V and Jackie for the heist. It also means that the main plot could work more like end-game content. A wild ride and tragic finale to V's life.

 

[Didacgomez]

Add in tons of non-linear, role-playing content. No time limit. The player can play as much or as little of the content as they want. When they're ready, they contact Jackie, and the main quest begins.

How do you do that without some sort of "radiant" system? Because if it needs to be handcrafted it will be finite. And you will need some sort of automatic level scaling when starting main quest, because if not it will be "forcing" grinding for those who want to go to story early.

 

[SigilFey]

How do you do that without some sort of "radiant" system? Because if it needs to be handcrafted it will be finite. And you will need some sort of automatic level scaling when starting main quest, because if not it will be "forcing" grinding for those who want to go to story early.

I never said anything about "random" missions, and I never said anything about "infinite". I meant: no pressure to push forward because you have an AI slowly eating away at your brain.

I mean "non-linear". Create, saaay, 10 mission chains, each of which contains 3-5 indivudal missions and 2-3 different outcomes. You can do them in any order. You can choose to play individual missions or not. Might be really cool to have certain missions change if you've done other missions first.

And, the player can freely level up and complete things like the street-racing stuff, the prize-fighter chain, the Cyberpsycho missions, the NCPD quests, etc. One of the big reasons I suggest this is because I like the way the main quest plays out when handled in an uninterrupted way. (I didn't handle my game that way -- had something like 110 hours when I was done with the playthrough, but I could easily play back the story in my mind and realize, wow -- that would work really well as a film or miniseries.)

So, I think it would work well as: Intro --> freeform exploration of Night City coupled with snooping, thieving, gigs, leveling up, etc. --> player discovers a bunch of standalone quests, here and there, all of which tell small, contained stories in and of themselves --> player-triggered endgame to meet Dex and begin the heist --> main quest plays out seamlessly and the game ends.

(And/or, if this helps to make sense of it: If you never call Jackie to be like, "This thing you're working on -- let's do it," but instead complete all of the new, non-linear content, you'll get the call from Jackie to meet you downstairs.)

 

[Didacgomez]

I never said anything about "random" missions, and I never said anything about "infinite". I meant: no pressure to push forward because you have an AI slowly eating away at your brain.

I mean "non-linear". Create, saaay, 10 mission chains, each of which contains 3-5 indivudal missions and 2-3 different outcomes. You can do them in any order. You can choose to play individual missions or not. Might be really cool to have certain missions change if you've done other missions first.

And, the player can freely level up and complete things like the street-racing stuff, the prize-fighter chain, the Cyberpsycho missions, the NCPD quests, etc. One of the big reasons I suggest this is because I like the way the main quest plays out when handled in an uninterrupted way. (I didn't handle my game that way -- had something like 110 hours when I was done with the playthrough, but I could easily play back the story in my mind and realize, wow -- that would work really well as a film or miniseries.)

So, I think it would work well as: Intro --> freeform exploration of Night City coupled with snooping, thieving, gigs, leveling up, etc. --> player discovers a bunch of standalone quests, all of which tell small, contained stories in and of themselves --> player-triggered endgame to meet Dex and begin the heist --> main quest plays out seamlessly and the game ends.

(And/or, if this helps to make sense of it: If you never call Jackie to be like, "This thing you're working on -- let's do it," but instead complete all of the new, non-linear content, you'll get the call from Jackie to meet you downstairs.)

Ok, so no random and finite but still how do you keep balance? Objects(cyberware),enemies,there are few skill checks here and there.
I'm not saying is bad idea, since is a player option to engage on this or go for the main story...but the game balance is already bad and anything before the heist would make it worse i think(still wondering what they are going to do in the expansions, add more to level cap? Its already quite high i think)...you can always put a level cap before calling Jackie,but i think is a bad solution(why do stuff for no reward).

 

[koalahugs]

I still think the best thing to do is add play time at the beginning of the game.

1.) Players create their character, go through the Lifepath intro, meet Jackie, and the montage plays out.

2.) Simple message by Jackie that he's going to check on something big -- really big. In the meantime, V should continue getting their names out there. It might take a while.

3.) Add in tons of non-linear, role-playing content. No time limit. The player can play as much or as little of the content as they want. When they're ready, they contact Jackie, and the main quest begins.

That would mean that players get to create and play V however they wish, get out and explore NC, and engage in "small-time" missions (which, of course, doesn't mean that they're simple or light -- just that none of the big players in NC give a shit.) It might be really, really cool to have Jackie be a part of some of these missions, all the while remaining tight-lipped about the "big" thing he's working on.

That could be a good segue into why someone like Dex would call on V and Jackie for the heist. It also means that the main plot could work more like end-game content. A wild ride and tragic finale to V's life.

That would flow so much better than how it currently is. Ludonarrative dissonance goes bye-bye.

Either that or tell V she has months to live rather than a couple weeks. Would also help if less characters said "meet me tonight/after sundown/etc." - I think I had 2 or 3 main characters call me in one day in 2 of my playthroughs :/

 

[HOPA83]

Yep adding a system like Sigil Fey suggests would be a good idea, but a bonus idea, I mean, it would add content at the start of the game, at least having the choice to walk around, but it is already possible, nothing do not prevent you from already doing it, and then launching the main dex evelyne / malstorm quests. But yes the main quest is linked very quickly, especially if you want to follow the strict PR, or things evolve very quickly while taking the time to do EVERYTHING RP speaking it does not hold up too much, seeing that the time is counted, I see what you mean. But hey, even if this would add things to the beginnings of the game, it would also mean redoing everything we already know without surprise. But for a pre-sequel for different purposes, in the meantime, yes it's an idea! And for Christmas I hope all the same that it will not be a t-shirt with a tree and a small car with the appearance of Santa Claus for silverhand ... ( yes because the only little "dlc?" That had it since all this time, is still ...) Anyway ^^

 

[LeKill3rFou]

How do you do that without some sort of "radiant" system? Because if it needs to be handcrafted it will be finite. And you will need some sort of automatic level scaling when starting main quest, because if not it will be "forcing" grinding for those who want to go to story early.

Maybe I missunderstood, but it's already a little bit the case.

You can start the Heist very early (at level 3-4 at max) by focusing only on main quests (so almost no stuff, nor Cyberwares).
Or you can walk around, clear almost all the GIGs/Side quests in NorthSide/Little China and start the Heist at level 10-12 (with legendary stuff, powerful cyberwares,...)

So finally, in my opinion, it wouldn't really change so much whatever how you play the beginning (even with 10-20 low level quests, you will end at level 14-16 at max, not a game changer anyway)

 

[Didacgomez]

Maybe I missunderstood, but it's already a little bit the case.

I know i know, i was thinking adding something like 10-20 hours worth content.

Or you can walk around, clear almost all the GIGs/Side quests in NorthSide/Little China and start the Heist at level 10-12 (with legendary stuff, powerful cyberwares,...)

Never done that,since i try to keep the "curve". For me that is bad design (although i understand why they did and that many players simply want to be op).
Don't you feel that at level 20 or so balance goes down the hill?-maybe even early,if you know your build- I'm not opposed to drop a DLC before the heist,or after or after post ending... its just,that if me playing in very hard with a trackball find it easy...then is for sure easy.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Don't you feel that at level 20 or so balance goes down the hill?-maybe even early,if you know your build- I'm not opposed to drop a DLC before the heist,or after or after post ending... its just,that if me playing in very hard with a trackball find it easy...then is for sure easy.

Obviously it seem already "unbalanced" if you spend hours before doing the Heist, I never did it after my first playthrough and I only redid it in my last to try the Heist only with a silenced gun (1K armor, 100% crit chance and 300% crit damages). Which it remain impossible to complete even with my top build...)

So more quests, levels, cyberwares before the Heist wouldn't really change this fact. It's up to the players to choose how they want to do it. If someone want to be even more powerful and even if quests become a piece of cake, that's fine

 

[GogRelvas]

I still think the best thing to do is add play time at the beginning of the game.

1.) Players create their character, go through the Lifepath intro, meet Jackie, and the montage plays out.

2.) Simple message by Jackie that he's going to check on something big -- really big. In the meantime, V should continue getting their names out there. It might take a while.

3.) Add in tons of non-linear, role-playing content. No time limit. The player can play as much or as little of the content as they want. When they're ready, they contact Jackie, and the main quest begins.

That would mean that players get to create and play V however they wish, get out and explore NC, and engage in "small-time" missions (which, of course, doesn't mean that they're simple or light -- just that none of the big players in NC give a shit.) It might be really, really cool to have Jackie be a part of some of these missions, all the while remaining tight-lipped about the "big" thing he's working on.

That could be a good segue into why someone like Dex would call on V and Jackie for the heist. It also means that the main plot could work more like end-game content. A wild ride and tragic finale to V's life.

I've been a defender of this for a long time now. To make it more simple I would add a manual trigger to do the Sandra Dorsett mission (before lockdown) and open up the city. Then create one mission per fixer where we meet them (differences per lifepath). That way it would only be necessary to block some gigs that are act 2 related and keep other requirements active

 

[SigilFey]

Ok, so no random and finite but still how do you keep balance? Objects(cyberware),enemies,there are few skill checks here and there.
I'm not saying is bad idea, since is a player option to engage on this or go for the main story...but the game balance is already bad and anything before the heist would make it worse i think(still wondering what they are going to do in the expansions, add more to level cap? Its already quite high i think)...you can always put a level cap before calling Jackie,but i think is a bad solution(why do stuff for no reward).

Basically, no need. Ideally, it would add enough content for the player to hit Level 50 before the main quest. Then the quest itself would be more about resolving the story and less about getting more stuff, better skills, etc.

Although, it could also work exactly like TW3 and just gate off experience gain until you advance to the next milestone of the plot. Meaning the player could advance to level 30 max during the "Pre-Dex" part of the game, and could continue up to Level 50 during the "main quest" part of the game.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Although, it could also work exactly like TW3 and just gate off experience gain until you advance to the next milestone of the plot. Meaning the player could advance to level 30 max during the "Pre-Dex" part of the game, and could continue up to Level 50 during the "main quest" part of the game.

You can do that in TW3 ?
In my point of view, all the "pre-Dex" content in Cyberpunk is the same kind as the first tiny White Orchard part in TW3. Just as a "tutorial" part to take in hand the basics of the game
Level 30 pre-Dex, it's a lot, generally for reach level 30, I have to complete all the NCPD Scanner Hustles on all the map (no blue icon remaining) and also complete some side quest like Delamain.

Edit : For now, before the Heist, so before any form of "urgency-Johnny", you can spend easily twenty hours in North Side by doing stuff (and I'm not talking about grinding or simply wandering like me)

 

[Notserious80]

im guessing that the expansions will be atleast 1 midgame and possibly 1 endgame(probably before the ending tho). But i like the ide of a early get too know the city one too. Hopefully they would make the city more interactive and fun too be in in that case tho. I would love more non gig quests too (no violence just other stuff) i just want a more interactive city tbh. The verticality of it is nice but not really functioning if its just empty of stuff too do.

 

[SigilFey]

You can do that in TW3 ?
In my point of view, all the "pre-Dex" content in Cyberpunk is the same kind as the first tiny White Orchard part in TW3. Just as a "tutorial" part to take in hand the basics of the game
Level 30 pre-Dex, it's a lot, generally for reach level 30, I have to complete all the NCPD Scanner Hustles on all the map (no blue icon remaining) and also complete some side quest like Delamain.

Edit : For now, before the Heist, so before any form of "urgency-Johnny", you can spend easily twenty hours in North Side by doing stuff (and I'm not talking about grinding or simply wandering like me)

What I meant was, there are points in TW3 where Geralt will simply stop gaining any experience from anything until the main quest is advanced. Like, I'll never get past Level 4 in White Orchard. I can kill every single wolf, drowner, water hag, and wraith 10 times each...and I'll just stay at Level 4. Go to Vizima, and viola! I start gaining exp. again. But only until Level 12 or so. I then need to complete the Kira and Bloody Baron quests before I can start leveling up again.

Thus, the beginning of CP2077 could simply hard-cap at Level 30 or whatever. You can continue playing the other quests, making money, and getting gear, but you won't advance V's character anymore until you meet with Dex and begin the heist.

Personally, though, I'd just leave it all uncapped. Let the player get all the way to 50 if they want. I think it would be cool to be maxed out before engaging in the main story. A life lived...and now the climax. I think it would also play to one of TW3's best strengths in my opinion: short, narrative arcs for every single side-quest in the game, many of which were extremely interesting and memorable. Plus, it's much easier to do cool branching when the overall story arc(s) are very short.

 

[Didacgomez]

Basically, no need. Ideally, it would add enough content for the player to hit Level 50 before the main quest. Then the quest itself would be more about resolving the story and less about getting more stuff, better skills, etc.

Uff, you are going to need to stretch your moderator muscles (more than usual in this forum with this game) if in a RPG your main and side quests don't get any character progression. I mean 20 to 60 hours of content without character progression seems a lot.
Might work for some players, not sure something that I would play but ok.

What I meant was, there are points in TW3 where Geralt will simply stop gaining any experience from anything until the main quest is advanced. Like, I'll never get past Level 4 in White Orchard. I can kill every single wolf, drowner, water hag, and wraith 10 times each...and I'll just stay at Level 4. Go to Vizima, and viola! I start gaining exp. again. But only until Level 12 or so. I then need to complete the Kira and Bloody Baron quests before I can start leveling up again.

Level capping in story arcs seems better imho, but seems something that needs to be implemented before hand and compartmentalized carefully... basically seems a rewrite of post-Heist + extra content that you might add before as new content... not sure is a good idea to mess with the core of the game.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

What I meant was, there are points in TW3 where Geralt will simply stop gaining any experience from anything until the main quest is advanced. Like, I'll never get past Level 4 in White Orchard. I can kill every single wolf, drowner, water hag, and wraith 10 times each...and I'll just stay at Level 4. Go to Vizima, and viola! I start gaining exp. again. But only until Level 12 or so. I then need to complete the Kira and Bloody Baron quests before I can start leveling up again.

Maybe I'm wrong (it's almost two year that I played TW3), but there wasn't a system of XP earned in relation to the level of the quest and the level of Geralt ?
Like a quest noticed as level 10.

• You doing it at level 5, you earn lot of xp (if it's possible).
• You doing it at level 10, you earn "normal" xp.
• You doing it at level 15, you earn almost no xp.

It's cool (and don't bother me), but in this way, you loose a little bit the possibility to really choose when you want to do each quest (you "have" to follow the level of quests). In Cyberpunk, you're totally free to do each quest whatever you want, with no "real" penalities (for example, in my case, doing all the GIGs only after reaching the level 50 or doing main quests post-Heist only after reaching the level 30)

 

[SigilFey]

Uff, you are going to need to stretch your moderator muscles (more than usual in this forum with this game) if in a RPG your main and side quests don't get any character progression. I mean 20 to 60 hours of content without character progression seems a lot.
Might work for some players, not sure something that I would play but ok.

Level capping in story arcs seems better imho, but seems something that needs to be implemented before hand and compartmentalized carefully... basically seems a rewrite of post-Heist + extra content that you might add before as new content... not sure is a good idea to mess with the core of the game.

That's why I'd also consider gating off a portion of the progress. Or the new content could be specifically designed to award only a certain amount. These are mostly semantics, though. It's rather impossible to foresee how level advancement would work until there was at least a detailed outline of what the actual content would be. Getting way to far ahead of ourselves.

The primary concept is: "Add more to the beginning of the game to let players establish their own V before engaging in the main questline."

Maybe I'm wrong (it's almost two year that I played TW3), but there wasn't a system of XP earned in relation to the level of the quest and the level of Geralt ?
Like a quest noticed as level 10.

• You doing it at level 5, you earn lot of xp (if it's possible).
• You doing it at level 10, you earn "normal" xp.
• You doing it at level 15, you earn almost no xp.

It's cool (and don't bother me), but in this way, you loose a little bit the possibility to really choose when you want to do each quest (you "have" to follow the level of quests). In Cyberpunk, you're totally free to do each quest whatever you want, with no "real" penalities (for example, in my case, doing all the GIGs only after reaching the level 50 or doing main quests post-Heist only after reaching the level 30)

Everything you're saying is correct -- but it also includes the "caps" on experience gained at certain points along the main questline. For example, you'll notice that when you take "grey" quests, witcher contracts, etc., you'll get literally 1 XP at the end. You'll get 1 XP or nothing for killing creatures after a certain point. Etc.

This was put in place so that various stages of the main quest could be balanced for those levels. Can't really stop players from over-leveling for what's presently available -- but it's definitely possible to plateau the power-curve to ensure future portions of the game are still challenging/rewarding.

(Then, of course, there are the arguable balance issues that remain. Like the Jenny o' th' Woods or The Last Wish battles even if over-leveled. That djinn sucks absolute duck eggs. I have never hated a swirling ball of air...so...much...)

 

[Wolfskin75]

I still think the best thing to do is add play time at the beginning of the game.

1.) Players create their character, go through the Lifepath intro, meet Jackie, and the montage plays out.

2.) Simple message by Jackie that he's going to check on something big -- really big. In the meantime, V should continue getting their names out there. It might take a while.

3.) Add in tons of non-linear, role-playing content. No time limit. The player can play as much or as little of the content as they want. When they're ready, they contact Jackie, and the main quest begins.

That would mean that players get to create and play V however they wish, get out and explore NC, and engage in "small-time" missions (which, of course, doesn't mean that they're simple or light -- just that none of the big players in NC give a shit.) It might be really, really cool to have Jackie be a part of some of these missions, all the while remaining tight-lipped about the "big" thing he's working on.

That could be a good segue into why someone like Dex would call on V and Jackie for the heist. It also means that the main plot could work more like end-game content. A wild ride and tragic finale to V's life.

Okay, I fully agree with this. However, I would like to add this: I would like to add more time with Mama Wells. Find out perhaps the other things V has sacrificed. Smaller things but I would also like to see more Nomad V. I would love maybe a softer V that had lost a relationship because of their decision to leave the Backers behind which you could add a little more pang of hope in finding and getting to know the Aldecaldos maybe. Same thing with the street kid to make (in my opinion that life path makes more sense.)

If I am being honest, I want more Panam and Judy romance as a Female V. Those two were painfully short. I am very sure a lot of people had suggested that as well. You had like ONE good discussion each.

I don't know. that is what was important to me in the game. I have been thinking about it a lot and (moon ending) to walk away from all that loss to finally find happiness. (tearing up a little) To develop those two relationships better and to get more of that comfortable final breeze in your hair as Panam hugs you. .. is why I would come back to the game.

sorry to rant

 

[HOPA83]

This is all good guys but you talk about the start of the game, view, review, already reviewed again and again. Many want continuity ! For example (a simple idea) area 51, alien technology, regeneration of brain cells, other neurons and synapses ! So of course less simplistic, but successful ...