Interface design for fantasy games. Medieval style or industrial minimalism?

[soundslikerust]

Cool thread. I would note two important things. First we can't talk interface thinking about an inventory menu, its much more in a game than that (but cool examples presented here). Second you put too little emphasis on keyboard+mouse VS gamepad interfaces. They should be little different so I will mention for wchich control sheme i refer to.

My point of view is more gamepad (PC) balanced. And i would add a better exapmple for this purpose (just inventory menu) bioware's dragon age3 LIST vs witcher's checkerboard. Interestingly the icon focused inventories are more suited for keyboard+mose hovering than clickfest on gamepad.
A list with icons + written info is much faster and clearer. Add proper categories (witcher ) Add a thumbstick fast analog scrolling + dpad cursor movement. Cursor should be dragged by thumbstick fast moving window with it not like in the Witcher where if you want to select something with dpad on scrolled list you are thrown back to top of the list.

Playing Witcher 3 I noticed I was always missing some information about inventory. Just look at compare widows difference and readability in bioware's inventory screen. Look (and check on gamepad) how fast and usable compare system is in this game. Witcher doeasn't have icon + description sheme so it's much slower finding what you want.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

@soundslikerust: Yes, controllers are harder to design for, because they are so limited. That's why minimalism there is more reasonable. But even your Bioware example doesn't feel good to me. It might be more usable than TW3, but the style doesn't fit such games. The worst part of it is, that once they start cater to consoles, developers usually don't bother to make two designs (for controllers and keyboard + mouse separately). So such minimalistic bland interfaces start spreading into PC versions too.

 

[soundslikerust]

@soundslikerust: Yes, controllers are harder to design for, because they are so limited. That's why minimalism there is more reasonable. But even your Bioware example doesn't feel good to me. It might be more usable than TW3, but the style doesn't fit such games. The worst part of it is, that once they start cater to consoles, developers usually don't bother to make two designs (for controllers and keyboard + mouse separately). So such minimalistic bland interfaces start spreading into PC versions too.

I think otherwise - controllers are less limited than k+m. It just has to be designed properly and differently than m+k (witcher does the same here and here)
I play PC games with controller which is in my opinion less limited than mouse i.e. fast mouse movement nedded to precision turning character make camera shaking and gamer loosing focus and orientation VS smooth cinematic camera with analog very acurate char movement.

I gave an example in previous post how to use analog sticks to make scrolling even fater and better than k+m. There are tons of examples like this for every piece of interface. So i can't agree with your point, sorry

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I think otherwise - controllers are less limited than k+m. It just has to be designed properly and differently than m+k (witcher does the same here and here)

They are more limited because simply they have less input options and that input isn't as precise. I.e. with keyboard you have 100+ buttons (which you can put shortcuts on) and precision of the mouse. With controllers that's lacking, so interface has to work around that (you yourself mentioned it above about icons and etc.). Some new approaches (like Steam controller for instance) try to reduce this gap, but it can only go so far.

 

[soundslikerust]

They are more limited because simply they have less input options and that input isn't as precise. I.e. with keyboard you have 100+ buttons (which you can put shortcuts on) and precision of the mouse. With controllers that's lacking, so interface has to work around that (you yourself mentioned it above about icons and etc.). Some new approaches (like Steam controller for instance) try to reduce this gap, but it can only go so far.

Again i cant agree, you want use 100+ buttons in game interface. You use maybe six or seven max (count it). Controller has like 17 buttons + ~4 analogs (in it two analog buttons) which is more than enough here... Key difference is you don't have to look at those 17 keys like on keyboard. With k+m you have only one analog input so no, kb is more limited in game

EDIT
p.s. You said controller is lacking from mouse and interface has to work around that. Thats the second point of misunderstanding. YOU CANT DO WORK AROUNDS to emulate mouse. Use controllers better sheme.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Again i cant agree, you want use 100+ buttons in game interface.

You can. You didn't play PlaneShift I guess. It has a lot of spells. Really a lot. Even when if you start assigning them to keyboard you quickly run out of buttons. So some combinations with Ctrl, Alt, Shift and etc. come very handy (since the amount of shortcuts multiplies). You can't do anything like that with a controller. How are you going to cast that spell fast when you need it? Scroll through a list of hundreds names in the UI? That's too slow. And I'm not even talking about complex crafting there. Typing all those commands or clicking stuff is waaay too slow. So scripting actions and assigning them to keyboard shortcuts is a common practice. With controller I have no idea how it can be done with reasonable speed altogether.

Key difference is you don't have to look at those 17 keys like on keyboard.

Why are you supposed to look at them on the keyboard? The whole point is to memorize some combination. Not any different than regular blind typing.

You said controller is lacking from mouse and interface has to work around that. Thats the second point of misunderstanding. YOU CANT DO WORK AROUNDS to emulate mouse. Use controllers better sheme.

Sure, you don't need to emulate the mouse, but you need to create an interface which will address the lack of precision in the controller. So all this jumping and etc. comes from there.

 

[soundslikerust]

Come on, it obvious that both have limitations i listed big k+m limitations you listed controllers limitation. I played EVE so i would use kb for that obviously. But it doesnt mean k+m is better. Try using xbox controller with witcher in fight and you wont go back to k+m, really it's that much better. Without it you do not see some game strongest points.
But the point here is that interface which were all talking have to be made differently which i talked before and made even graphical example before..

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

@soundslikerus: Sure, each has its limitations. For instance I was playing Maldita Castilla and it's insanely hard to play with a keyboard (controller can really help with it). I.e. controller helps better for directional input in such cases. But interfaces are affected more by other set of differences, that's why it's not accidental that interfaces for controllers need to be more simplistic and interfaces for keyboard + mouse can afford to be more elaborate.

 

[soundslikerust]

Not only directional but analog/ different force on both sticks and analog force buttons. The thing i'm desperately trying to provide is that it has to be designed differently with different aproach tahn for k+m. And when you design like that it's much better than k+b except in rare cases like eve or planeshift. It's like a touch interface. If you try to emulate mouse its hilarious and unusable and if you make touch aproach it's SO much better than mouse in most cases

 

[Phinnway]

I like the interfaces in Pillars and Deus Ex. Seeing those side by side next to Witcher 3's interface makes it look drab and boring.

I think a balance between functionality and artistry is optimal. Pillars and Deus Ex hit that balance pretty well. Maybe someone will make a stylized interface for Witcher 3 someday :hope:

 

[soundslikerust]

I like the interfaces in Pillars and Deus Ex. Seeing those side by side next to Witcher 3's interface makes it look drab and boring.

I think a balance between functionality and artistry is optimal. Pillars and Deus Ex hit that balance pretty well. Maybe someone will make a stylized interface for Witcher 3 someday :hope:

I liked deus ex interface too, it 's clear and fast:yes

 

[roelani]

I for one am all for simplicity and clarity in design, even in games which feature a fantasy setting. I can find very few "fantasy-heavy" designs which don't look, to me, either overcrowded af or simply just tacky as hell in terms of font choices and gradients and overused bland textures all over the damn place. I like my menus and inventory to be easy to read, and as a graphic designer by profession, I'm a lot more drawn to clean, simple lines than an overabundance of design elements for the sake of theming.

But then a lot of that is down to personal preference. The exemples listed as fantasy in the OP's post just scream TACKY to me, and I couldn't see myself using those without a heavy dose of swallow-down-your-visual-preferences compromising, honestly. I just can't do the whole weathered wood and nails, torn paper crap. I can't.

Witcher 3, with the dark menus and clean lines... Man, I love that. The color scheme is enough to suggest fantasy to me. I don't need the fantasy theme to be shoved in my face constantly. I know what I'm playing, thanks very much. I think they did a great job, personally.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

@roelani: That ignores the question of immersion. Industrial design can be out of place for a fantasy game same as a laser gun can be out of place in the actual fantasy setting. Sure, from the abstract design perspective, functionality and usability can be a measure of quality. So the simpler it is, the better (but not simpler than simple however). But when creating the actual art it's not the only thing that's measured.

I agree however that perception of it is subjective as well as affected by cultural differences. It was already mentioned above. I.e. when it comes to liking or not liking some design - tastes differ.

 

[roelani]

@Gilrond-i-Virdan: I'm aware. I just generally don't like the look chosen when theming fantasy. So I prefer a more subdued approach. I thought the notice boards in W3 were well done, however. I guess it's just a question of finding a balance. As it stands now, I don't feel like I would change anything in the functional (menus and such) interface of W3.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

@Gilrond-i-Virdan: I'm aware. I just generally don't like the look chosen when theming fantasy. So I prefer a more subdued approach. I thought the notice boards in W3 were well done, however. I guess it's just a question of finding a balance. As it stands now, I don't feel like I would change anything in the functional (menus and such) interface of W3.

I on the other hand find it too bland and modernized, while Pillars of Eternity design looks good to me artistically, and at the same time it doesn't degrade usability But like above, that's subjective. However, what's quite objective is that consolization affects design choices which developers make. And I personally don't see it as a good thing.

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It's like a touch interface. If you try to emulate mouse its hilarious and unusable and if you make touch aproach it's SO much better than mouse in most cases

Touch interface is quite useful for some use cases, but it has a ton of its own limitations as well. Steam controller actually uses a trackpad in addition to traditional stick: http://www.gamestop.com/steammachine
I'll probably buy it when it will come out.

 

[soundslikerust]

@Gilrond-i-Virdan you're trying to make k+m better. I was like that on pc until i thrown back my ~20 years habits. Just buy it and try it. Don't mention imaginary limitations. It's hard to talk to you about the thing you just don't like to use. Try to be less conservative for your good

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

you're trying to make k+m better. I was like that on pc until i thrown back my ~20 years habits. Just try it. Don't mention limitations. It's hard to talk to you about the thing you just don't like to use. Try to be less conservative for yor good

I'll try controllers when I need them (Maldita Castilla case). Or may be some simulator games where they make sense (i.e. this kind of stuff). But otherwise keyboard and mouse work just fine. I don't need controllers for games like the TW3.

 

[soundslikerust]

I'll try controllers when I need them (Maldita Castilla case). Or may be some simulator games where they make sense (i.e. this kind of stuff). But otherwise keyboard and mouse work just fine. I don't need controllers for games like the TW3.

You didn't try on TW3. You would notice much better controll like in Dark Souls which Whicher copies in combat. Try it please

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

You didn't try on TW3.

I didn't play TW3 yet, but I know how it was in the previous games. Anyway, let's focus on graphical interfaces, and not on how usable or not controllers are.

 

[soundslikerust]

Man i have a BIG respect for you for starting this thread. Please check the TW3 which we were talking about, check dark souls and controllers on PC. Please. You will stay with it like me. Some things are better for k+m. But TW3 is a controller game.