Jobs Store Support Register

Mass Effect 3

+
Mass Effect 3

I noticed BioWare have released a short cutscene video about Mass Effect 3. Unsurprisingly the Earth will be attacked in the last section of the trilogy. I then did a quick read on the Wikia. First I have to say I really, loved Mass Effect. It was a beautiful game with a great story. At the end it felt like I had watched a fantastic movie, and was almost moved to tears. I sat in my chair feeling kinda empty, yet overjoyed. Then came Mass Effect 2. Don't get me wrong, it's a good game in its own right, but it's not an RPG, and it's not a logical continuation of the great universe and story that ME created. In short it's a shooter, with some dialogue here and there. Basically only the last mission is related to the overall story, while the rest are sidetracks. It's a good game as a shooter, and I did enjoy it (finished it after all), but it was also a very frustrating experience given how great Mass Effect was. I felt they moved in the wrong direction. Emphasis wasn't on RPG elements, but shooting everything that moves, and crucial choices made in ME didn't really have any impact at all. For example, that my ME love interest treated me like any pleb left me disgusted. Besides Civilization 5, it must be one of the most overhyped games in history. And don't get me started on the DLC sham.So then back to ME3. I was naively (but not really honestly) hoping BioWare would get back to what I understand to be their RPG roots (I'm fairly new to RPG, so don't know their early history), but instead they seem to continue down the erroneous ME2 path with emphasis on combat and "commercialism". A trailer doesn't necessarily say a lot about the game, it's typically just a lot of fancy graphics (usually not using the game's engine) for advertising purposes. But I don't think I go out on a limb by assuming the starting point is basically that the Earth will get invaded, or perhaps have been invaded when we start the game - and our mission is to expel (or prevent) the invaders. Sadly they seem to be moving away from the mystery that was the Reapers, but maybe they'll bring them back here. Given this likely scenario, the game is sure to be yet another "shoot what moves" experience. I'm not looking forward to this one, and may not even buy it.Don't think I can go through reading what the fanboys are writing over at BioWare's forum, so wanted to get a discussion going here instead. How did you guys (and girls?) experience the Mass Effect games, and what are your expectations for ME3?I've been watching many of the videos of TW2 lately, the dev diaries and such, and dearly hope TW2 will be much in line with the story and 'heart' behind TW. So far I think that will happen, but we will see if the quest for more commercial success will mess up another start of a great universe and game series. Hopefully my bad experience with Mass Effect won't be reflected in TW2. I felt that BioWare (or EA?) ruined a great game. Yes, it sold a lot of copies, but as any sensible person will tell you, quantity does not equal quality. And you can sadly achieve a lot through marketing (lying, hyping).I do trust the RED guys a heap lot more than what has become the commercial monster of BioWare, and what I have seen so far of TW2 calms and intrigues me. Hopefully the replay value will still be very good, and the clear emphasis will be on RPG and not battle. Lifting the head a little further, I do find it interesting that some of the best games have come from fairly small developers. If these grow big, games tend to lose some of the great qualities their early games had. The "game" has become less about creating a great experience, and more about making money and selling units. This is the 'red thread' that runs through gaming companies these days, and it's pretty depressing. No wonder there is only a game a year or so that is actually worth buying.
 
Panagaea,I can really hear you and I share any single word you said :)I've loved so much any of the former Black Isle's games, from BG to Icewind Dale 2. When Bioware came I also loved NWN series (except than NWN2) and Mass Effect. I share the same opionion about ME, think it's a very good game with a nice story, though a just bit "naive". I've never played ME2 yet, but I had great expectation after watching the trailer. Unfortunatly this expectation was deluded by the gameplay videos. I think Bioware is deeply changed and I think it's no more the group which made such masterpieces.Talking about Bioware's fantasy: DAO is way far from the previous games. The story is simplistic, childish, trivial, insignificant, the characters insipid and steorotyped. Darkspawn is simply ridiculous, stupid dummies (like the Empire Troopers of Star Wars).... no creativity, no imagination, no interesting monster design. Just a lot of work spent on creating realistic eyes on characters and finishing cinematic. Though the engine is nice and the game strategy is interesting is certainly not worthy to be bought. When I watched DA2 teaser I thought even worse: first they're launching a new game too soon. What can we expect from this sequel? Second, my impression is they wanted to point to japan's games like Soul Calibur, FF ect: enormous huge cool weapons embraced my such f..g handsome "darkish" characters, with good old oveinflated Matrix's cinematic (I mean Matrix movie). Not impressed.Now they're launchin ME3 right? Again, I think too soon. Should we expect another boring f--g superhero adventure with no constructive story? Well no, Bioware is no more the team I've loved.I don't know if this will happen to CDP too. Hope not frankly. I think we should wait and see the new game before judging. For sure I was thrilled that such a small team created a game like TW1, just like you. CDP still have my hope. I expect it won't be deluded. :)
 
I'm also new to the RPGs and haven't heard about Mass Effect till the second game hit the stores. I looked it up on web, watched some gameplay on video sites and decided it's a sci-fi shooter and never looked for the first game. I don't fancy shooters much except for a couple of them. Seems like the first one is a different game. I think it's what's been happening to games recently. New games are shorter and easier and trying to address as many people as possible by cutting down on quality and some core elements of a particular game or series.
 
I guess it's not surprising that people here agree with me, but it's still nice to hear. We (at least I) came here because ME2 and DAO did not deliver. Yet they were both madly overhyped. Is it a sign that the rest is to incredibly bad that even good-ish games are rated as great? Or have reviewers simply become marketers for the big developers these days? Both?Don't get me wrong e-ahmet, there is plenty of shooting in ME too. But the whole experience is very different from ME2. In ME2 each mission is very linear, and almost every mission is a side quests with little or no impact for the main story. The story is a backseat passenger, while the main thing we do is to recruit people for a big assault. But in ME each mission helps drive the story forward, the missions are more open, and there is more interaction with characters. And there is an inventory. And no stupid searching hours on end for f-ing minerals. Trying to drive the rubber car in ME up steep rock faces seems like fun compared to that mineral 'game'.After I posted this topic, I read a marketing line that the Reapers were invading and Shepard is the only guy that can stop them (talk about an absurd story, especially given the fleet of Reapers at the end of ME2), and he is now tasked with finding allies in the galaxy. That's a blue copy of ME2, with a different ending. Yawn.I'm not sure if it's Bioware's or EA's fault, but they are making games differently now, probably trying to appeal to bigger masses to make more dough. And losing their soul in the process. So many gaming companies do this these days. They just pump out games way too soon, especially in a franchise (a "name" series), and let the consumers be betatesters. Market it like the biggest thing since the wheel. Rinse and repeat. I'm so fed up of it. I don't think it's a coincidence that some of the best games I've played in the last years have come from small (incidentally Eastern European) developers in the form of Mafia and the Witcher. Before that I really liked Operation Flashpoint too, though I'm not a fan of such games, which also was from a small developer. Then there is Football Manager. They have become bigger now, but are very small compared to the big players in the gaming industry, and basically just have the one title to their name.In the vast majority of cases these days, games is not the end goal in itself. It's just a means to the end of making money. Of course making money has to be part of the equation, or the developer would quickly cease to exist. But it shouldn't be the main goal, or what drives them. With small teams and developers it is probably different, cause they have maybe this one title it all depends on, so they put their whole soul and life into the project. But in bigger developers it's just another brick in the wall, before the coders etc move on to a different game, so they're not truly involved in the game. Not like I'm sure the team behind TW is in theirs. secondchildren, being pretty new to RPG games myself, I can't really compare DAO to much else. I never finished it though. Had probably finished about 80% when I got too fed up and bored with the neverending stream of fighting. Put it on Easy to get through it faster, but it just felt like a hack n slash fest. The story seemed very cliche'd, with your typical 3 character sets, some evil guys trying to take over all that is good in the world, and your dragons and such. Unlike ME2 it at least offered proper interaction with people, but it felt a bit bland too, and became too much of a game to get the people in my team to like me. Then there is the environment that doesn't feel very alive - unlike in the Witcher where people move around, talk, run from the rain, and so forth. I think what is common in my dislike for ME2 (and likely ME3) and DAO is that the story didn't really intrigue me, or it wasn't driven forward properly. I didn't get sucked into it, and didn't have that "I wonder what happens next" feeling that I had with ME and TW. Obviously Mafia was a very different type of game, but here too the story was great and I loved watching it unfold and be part of it. This is what tends to be lacking in today's games, because the developers don't give it enough thought or time to create something unique or new or thinking out of the box. They create something from a recipe of what "ingredients" they want in a game, which is probably derived from marketing research of what most people like. At the end of the day it therefore often ends up being bland and superficial. Just another brick in the wall.It is my hope that TW2 will not do this, and will develop a great game with interesting and surprising twists, with strong emphasis on story and driving it forward in a sensible and intriguing manner. Here's an odd comparison (that just fell into my head right now), but what is great with The Witcher is actually some qualities that is good for building attraction or interest with the opposite sex. Be different from the pack. Stand out in a good way. Be independent. Leave people wanting more (by not tying up all the loose ends).
 
I didnt read the thread cause I get so upset talking about Mass Effect 2 :(Ill probably NOT purchase or play ME3, well not at full price anyways!When game hits the $20.00 steam download I "might" give it a try. All depends what the POST RELEASE reveiws read like!ME2 got 9.5 and 10 outta 10 by all the PRE RELEASE sites and the reveiws clearly intentionally left out issues regarding the game and content!Pretty much EVERY POST RELEASE reveiw I saw of ME2 DID mention those missing issues and content from the PRE RELEASE reveiws and I didnt see anyone give ME2 a higher score then 6 outta 10 from the post release crowd. Even saw as low as 3.5 outta 10.I personally agree with the 6 outta 10 sites like The New York Times (and other well respected outlets).So ill wait to see what they have to say regarding ME3 this time. The short trailer tends to suggest its even MORE shooter then ME2 was and they dont even advertise or mention any actual RP content (much like the new DA2 trailer, all combat, no substance). That simply doesnt interest me!HOWEVER, I do love the STORY of Mass Effect universe so ill STILL BUY the novel and the comics and any other story based content out there regarding the subject. I love the STORY CONTENT of Mass Effect as much (if not more) as Star Wars story and content! I just dont want to play a dumbed down shooter with a paint by numbers linear back story like Mass Effect 2 was.As a huge fan of Bioware RPGs and Mass Effect 1, I was honestly insulted by the content (or lack there of) in Mass Effect 2. I wouldnt even buy the Add Ons because 1) They were to short for the price being asked, and 2) They were simply more paint by number, purely linear, insultingly childish Add Ons (from all credible reports).I mean id LOVE to read about hunting the Shadow Broker down. That could be 1-2-3 complete novels if written correctly and thoughfully! Instead EA/Bioware released it in a 30 minutes ADD ON that costed $7.50 plus tax.No Thanks to that and No Thanks to Mass Effect 3.I know the chances of this happening are almost nill but id be OVERJOYED and THRILLED if people simply refused to buy DA2 and ME3 sending EA/Bioware a CLEAR MESSAGE that we want Bioware quality RPGs. Not Shooter focused twitch games with a storyline a 4 year old could not only follow but most likely write!Thats my opinion on the whole thing!My 2 offline games this year are:The Witcher 2Deus Ex 3 : Human Revolutionand my online games are Forgotten World ( http://www.forgottenworld.com )The Old Republic (Maybe, still waiting on a couple issues before I for sure say yes)I doubt ill ever buy anouther Bioware game at full price (after TOR) to be honest. They have gone from "must have" (before EA take over) to "bleh, what ever" (after EA Takeover).
 
I played through Mass Effect 1 about 8 or 9 times.I'm pretty sure you shot everything that moved in that one as well.Just be cause it took to a more cover based style of shooting from Gear of War doesn't mean its any less of a game then the first one.Hell anyone who played the first loved the new combat an if you didn't then you need to step back and rethink it.Sure the RPG was cut back some what but that all boils down to what you consider a RPG to be.For instance is it leveling up to max level and getting exp that makes it a RPG or is the improving your gun skill and finding a new set of armor. Personally I think its the chooses we make that define what a RPG is.What you say to a npc how you act.RP in RPG stands for Role-play as we all know.Just because you shoot everything (as part of the Game) between your actions doesn't mean your no longer able to RP.Do you shoot them in the head for a clean kill or shot them in the knee then the stomach and watch them bleed out?I do lament the change in RPGs,I miss the days of great frustration and reward for finally killing a dragon in BG. Just like anything else games evolve and this style isn't a exception.There still new people getting introduced to RPGs an some should be eased into them.My first RPG was Dragon Warrior on the NES and I was 9.Took me 2 years before I could figure it out to finally kill the Dragon Lord.
 
I'm a huge fan of the Mass Effect series, the second is probably in my top 5 games of all time. Personally I feel the first game was conflicted in it's genre. It was a third-person shooter that really wanted to work like an RPG, and as a result kind of came off as a cross-breed of the two, and not as good a full game devoted to one genre or the other. Mass Effect 2 made the decision to neaten up the combat system, make it less like the active pausing style that they went so heavily into in Dragon Age, and make it more fast paced skill based shooting. I think it worked brilliantly. It was fun, incredibly accurate, and exciting. Of course it isn't what a lot of RPG fans want, which is many and varied abilities, and different means to do different things. Yes of course you have a lot of choices in Mass Effect, but it probably always comes down one way or another to a gunfight. The reason I love it so much is that it's a great, well programmed shooter, that simply has more depth than almost any other game you'll see around. The characters are a lot of fun, it has an excellent sense of humour, and the world is very expansive. Sure the romance plotlines are a little dumb, and the laughable sex scenes are almost a bad as Dragon Age's.
 
Those reasons are why I didn't like it all that much. It felt like a shooter with a tacky story with lots of holes. Key features were essentially removed from the game, and thus dumbed down. I still played through it, though, and it wasn't bad. But it wasn't good either, IMO. 10 years ago I would probably have liked it as I was more used to shooters then. But now I want story-driven games with I didn't really get that in ME2. Some of the characters were great, I'll give them that, but the game itself does not really have a core story. Just side shows stuff.But I suppose I've said that a few times already, so no need to repeat myself. I know many like it and that's great for them. I just wanted to get through it to see if the story somehow picked up, and the story in ME1 was mind-blowingly good.
 
Pangaea said:
But I suppose I've said that a few times already, so no need to repeat myself. I know many like it and that's great for them. I just wanted to get through it to see if the story somehow picked up, and the story in ME1 was mind-blowingly good.
The reason the story in ME2 doesn't really stand out is because it's sort of absent, really. ME1 had a dominant story thread of figuring out what Sovereign was, and finding out was a big realization.In ME2, we know what the reapers are, and we know that they are coming to destroy everything. ME2 made the mistake of not bringing much new to the table. It takes the whole game for Shepard to find out the reapers are coming, which the audience already knows, so there was no twist, and nothing to actually move the plot forward. The only major plot in ME2 is the introduction of the Illusive man.
 
Yep. Which was a huge "WTF?" of course, given the role of his organization in the first game. Not even having a choice felt wrong. But the main thing is that, as you say, there isn't really a story going on. I'd say about 80% of the game is spent on loyalty missions and side quests. I don't remember everything now as I've only played it once and that was a while ago, but from memory the story doesn't really progress until you go through relay portal or whatever they called it. That is what was most disappointing to me, in addition to the impressively huge holes in the story.The action-oriented approach kinda covers up for most of this, as you are occupied shooting up everything and not really thinking too much about what is going on (like in your typical shooter). But even so, it left me feeling quite disappointed. Had huge hopes for the game, and it fell well short. There is so much they could have done with the story. Some of the introduced characters were well-done, but they don't really do anything with the story - except fuck it up. Also, given that 'everybody' can die in ME2, I don't think many of the characters will return in a big way in ME3. So I expect another "gather a team and beat silly odds" type of game, where the centre will be on saving Earth. I am very interested in learning about how the game turns out, but after ME2 and DA2 my expectations are very low. I hope a development kit will be released at some point, so the annoying things about ME can be solved, new campaigns be made and so forth. But I also read that things were locked in coding, so it was likely to be very difficult to change anything meaningful via mods. A shame. Cause ME1 would be such a fantastic game with the inventory system altered a little and the car not behaving like a rubber ball. As the joke goes, after some criticism of this in ME1, they pulled out the inventory system and the car in ME2. So what will be left in ME3?I probably come across very harsh now. The game was still fairly fun. I played through it and it wasn't a torturous experience (apart from the you-know-what gathering). But it's not a game I would play again, like with ME1 or TW1. They should have built on ME1 instead. It could have been a real masterpiece. We could have been able to land on more planets, there could have been more trading worlds and such, more planets with rogue bandits and whatnot. The plot of the Collectors felt like a complete side track. Instead they could have progressed with the main story. Maybe this will come in ME3, but they could have had attacks on colonies by the Reapers. More diplomacy with the Council and such, instead of letting them all have lobotomy and magically remove their memory and intelligence. So much wasted potential with the game as a whole.
 
Seeker said:
That is the thing about trilogies Story A set it up Story B tells you a bit and set it up for Story C
Oh dear. That turned into quite the block of text :eek: Sorry.Your comment Seeker, reminded me of this hilarious clip from Clerks 2.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxAEo3CWeq8
 
What plot holes were you talking of? I know there's plenty of gaffs science wise, but the story felt pretty tight considering they have to make it carry-on from dozens of possible story variations. My favourite aspect of the game was the final mission, really. The only time in a game i think i've really felt like a commander of a group. You make the wrong decision, they die, simple as that. The final boss was a bit dumb though, really. I hope they put some explanation into why the reapers spent years trying to build a humanoid reaper.The romance subplots were also really dumb, very little emotion in any of them, apart from the cute scenes that play out with Tali and Garrus, respectively. Also, could have done with full nudity in the sex scenes as well, the full clothed dry humping made the scenes nothing but something to giggle at, never actually sexy.
 
There are minor things such as the ammo system and how it doesn't quite fit the story. Everybody in the universe have the exact same ammo for all their weapons, including people who haven't been in touch with the outside world for years, and invading aliens? Couple this with the timeline, and everybody have changed their ammo system in two years? Quite.Then there are more serious ones, such as having to work for the most horrible organization in the universe, going by the first game at least. The Collectors was very odd too I thought. Why the hell would they be collecting humans to create some kind of humanoid reaper? Doesn't make any sense at all. Who the hell is the Illusive Man? Not one reference to him in the first game, and the whole character seems very odd and out of place. Then there is the end, where you can't do what seems the most obvious choice.The start is a bit crap too. Why kill off and revive Shepard? It's a cheap and much over-used trick. Continue the story itself, instead of doing this. Is Shepard supposed to be so special that nobody else in the universe can do what he does?Oh, and why were the classed totally changed? And their abilities?I think the biggest problem is that the real threat of the Reapers is barely mentioned at all in the game, and instead you are focused on a new Collector threat, which means the story in ME 2 goes exactly nowhere. In a trilogy you're supposed to have a good laid-out plan for what you want to tell, but ME2 felt like something they came up with in the last minute. Instead of progressing the story of ME1 we got totally sidetracked, and nothing is done about what is actually threatening life in the universe. Many plot holes and inconsistencies were mentioned in a thread about Mass Effect somewhere on this site, but I can't remember which one it was. Many random thoughts above there, but at least you get some points about my critiques.
 
Pangaea said:
There are minor things such as the ammo system and how it doesn't quite fit the story. Everybody in the universe have the exact same ammo for all their weapons, including people who haven't been in touch with the outside world for years, and invading aliens? Couple this with the timeline, and everybody have changed their ammo system in two years? Quite.Then there are more serious ones, such as having to work for the most horrible organization in the universe, going by the first game at least. The Collectors was very odd too I thought. Why the hell would they be collecting humans to create some kind of humanoid reaper? Doesn't make any sense at all. Who the hell is the Illusive Man? Not one reference to him in the first game, and the whole character seems very odd and out of place. Then there is the end, where you can't do what seems the most obvious choice.The start is a bit crap too. Why kill off and revive Shepard? It's a cheap and much over-used trick. Continue the story itself, instead of doing this. Is Shepard supposed to be so special that nobody else in the universe can do what he does?Oh, and why were the classed totally changed? And their abilities?I think the biggest problem is that the real threat of the Reapers is barely mentioned at all in the game, and instead you are focused on a new Collector threat, which means the story in ME 2 goes exactly nowhere. In a trilogy you're supposed to have a good laid-out plan for what you want to tell, but ME2 felt like something they came up with in the last minute. Instead of progressing the story of ME1 we got totally sidetracked, and nothing is done about what is actually threatening life in the universe. Many plot holes and inconsistencies were mentioned in a thread about Mass Effect somewhere on this site, but I can't remember which one it was. Many random thoughts above there, but at least you get some points about my critiques.
The Illusive man was never mentioned before because he is exactly that, Illusive, no one in the universe is meant to know about him, apart from the highest ranking Cerberus officers.The classes were all changed because they wanted to get rid of all the poorly received RPG aspects of the first game, the way the classes worked, with thier dozen abilities at twenty levels of skill, was really unpopular and had many people complaining that it could have been made much simpler and easier to understand. Personally I prefer games with lots of skill variety though, where you can't have everything, you need to choose what you like best. And the reason reapers are constructing the human reaper is yet to be revealed, but I personally think the (Pretty obvious) explanation will be that humans destroyed Sovereign, the only reaper to ever die, so the remaining reapers realize the human race is powerful, and are redesigning themselves to take the form of this powerful race now.
 
Oh God, that would be a horrible explanation! It will be interesting to see how they get out of the corner they've painted themselves into though. Bioware at least had great writers before, so hopefully they are allowed to shine.Nobody knows the Shadow Broker either, but we're at least told about him. And as to stripping down the classes, that was yet another area where Bioware took some criticism to mean "REMOVE IT ALTOGETHER". Classes are too complex -> Make them virtually redundantInventory system isn't ideal -> Remove itCustomization is pretty complex -> Remove it (not much left anyway)Takes time to equip my teammates -> Remove itNot sure which ability to use -> Make them pretty much uselessThe car didn't handle well -> Remove it==> If something moves, SHOOT IT!!That is the main gripe I have with the game, besides the horrible (non-existing) story. Everything is dumbed down. Or "streamlined" as the popular euphemism goes. It's also the common theme of the DAO to DA2 transition. So this is why I strongly suspect ME3 will be a horrible game for us who like story-driven games with customization and real choice. I don't know if it's EA's or Bioware's fault (probably a combination), but their games are turning into shooters with elements of conversations. I can't help but think there is at least some push from the EA execs towards more shooter driven games. They're easier and cheaper to produce and generally sells very well (fuck knows why). So from a bottom-lines perspective it makes sense as you can push out games in a franchise at least once a year. And then put out a zillion DLCs to milk the market even more. Then at some point down the line the product gets "Guitar Heroed".
 
I just discovered Mass Effect not too long ago. First was the problem with getting things to run. I was able to get ME2 to Install and run on Windows 7, but not ME. I rebooted and installed it ( ME ) in Vista and have been playing it. I guess I could have hooked up the XP machine and run both on that thing as they would have run well ( Pentium D 945 ( 3.4 Ghz ) with Nvidia GeForce 9800GT Video card and 2 Gb of 667 Mhz ram ). Anyway, I have them both on here on two different OS's which makes it a pain. I primarily run in Windows 7 and have to reboot into Vista to play some of the games that won't run in Windows 7. As for the game, it is different and I am enjoying it. I find it in the same realm as say Deus Ex, which is an RPG, but with a lot of shooting as well. My primary reason for getting those game was the fact of Bioware and Black Isle. I have always liked what came out of there with the possible exception of the Icewind Dale stuff. I couldn't get into those things and gave them to my Nephew. I did play ME2 up to the point of getting my ship, before trying to install ME in Vista, and been playing that instead. I don't particularly care much for that rover thing you have to drive around when you leave the ship and land on whatever. I tend to treat it pretty hard and it doesn't hold up well. : )
 
If they can just expand on the rpg elements, reintroduce the dialog skill from ME1, banish black and white choices, and hire Drew Karpyshin back to write the story, it will be great. That's a tall order though. I know CD red can do all those things. Not sure about Bioware.I have high hopes for ME3 anyway. I hope to god the term 'streamlining' was banned from the dev's philosophy when designing the game. Enough simplifying, Bioware. Your fanbase isn't stupid.