Violence will be censored too, I bet. Still, it's apples and oranges. Different effects.I have to ask...
Why are you asking for nudity to be censored, but not the violence and gore?
Violence will be censored too, I bet. Still, it's apples and oranges. Different effects.I have to ask...
Why are you asking for nudity to be censored, but not the violence and gore?
Hence, we have the system we have today.
The larger concern this is a fairly deep rabbit hole. What if one person feels violence, gore, etc. is off-limits but T&A is acceptable? What if another has a personal problem with any type of references to drugs? How far are we going to go with tailoring the experience to the individual?
I'm honestly not sure what you mean. What you're describing is exactly what is done consistently in the world today. This is what censorship laws decide in every country or region, every day of every year. This is what the the experts that sit censorship boards are for. It's their job to decide (as you've put it) "...how far [we are] going to go with tailoring the experience..." whether it's for the the individual, the society, the region, or the country. (Being a censor is a full-time position!)
Censorship in entertainment is an outdated concept (just like region-locking). The only reason it still exists is that nobody bothered to change the law or weren't in a position to do so. There are a lot of weird remnants to be found because of how the law has "evolved" in the past.
Hmm, I'll try to clarify... Yes, different areas of the world handle this type of thing differently. I don't take any issue with this, at all. The concern is when personal requests get added on top of that.
The game is built a certain way and meets certain criteria to satisfy a certain rating. The entire point of going through this process is to establish the target audience for the game. This way you can look at the rating and know what type of content will be in the game. Why should additional steps need to be taken beyond this to make the content appropriate for other demographics outside what it has been rated for and targeted toward?
The rating panel has met their responsibility by rating the game and holding the developer to it. The developer has met their responsibility by marketing and ensuring it meets the criteria for the intended rating provided by the rating panel. Any responsibility beyond this rests on the user of the content.
Let's try it this way.... Say a movie is rated R in the US. Let's say you want to see this movie. Let's also say you want to watch it with the entire family, including your young children. Since we're in a hypothetical, suppose you feel young children shouldn't see R rated movies. Is it acceptable to ask the creators of this movie to provide a PG rated version of the movie, just for you?
As an edit... To be clear, if it requires minimal effort and is easy to pull off to provide an option to disable nudity, sure, why not? Options = good. It's just.... the phrase slippery slope probably applies here.
Now, if you'll excuse me. I'm going to get back to having my character in DIsco Elysium take his pants off and drop some speed before making this jump .
I still don't think there's much distinction with the censorship issue itself. All censorship is a result of numerous, individual requests. It doesn't happen arbitrarily; it's a result of the same requests or complaints being issued repeatedly over a period of time. Hearing only one of those requests does not mean that it's the only one. I've come across at least 10 different members that have shared a similar opinion or concern for Cyberpunk, The Witcher, and Gwent.
As for whether there should be options in games for this type of thing, I look at that as being a bit different than censorship. While I have no issue with nudity in CDPR's titles, and I feel they've handled it very thematically, we lose nothing by providing options. This is a standard that more video games could be exploiting. It's not really possible to do such with film or literature, but it's relatively easy to customize and experience in a game to one's liking. If it's possible for a game to provide an option for people to cater it to their liking...why would a studio ever say 'no'?
there is always a line that must be drawn when it comes to accomodation (in the case of violence, gore, sex, nudity) and exclusion (bigotry, erasure, prejudice). and the answer to where that line is draw is: somewhere. that's it. where the line is drawn is up to the developer and the choice to engage with the content is then up to the individual (even the regional market for that matter, as is the case with Japan).
adjusting to someone's sensitivity to nudity and gore is patently different from adjusting to someone's xenophobia/queerphobia/religious bigotry. there are, very simply, fewer ideological nuances to nudity and gore than there are to ethnicity, sexuality and religion.
"you want a toggle on nudity and blood? yeah sure i can do that""you want a toggle on [people of a certain ethnicity] ? n...no?...i will not do that."the line is drawn somewhere, most often at the boundary of the greater and lesser historically complex ideologies
@SigilFey is this conversation getting out of line/hand? i don't wanna be the one but...i had to make my point
Presumably because it's what matters to him/her. It's not my place to tell someone else which subset of vices they should or shouldn't be offended by.I have to ask...
Why are you asking for nudity to be censored, but not the violence and gore?
@SigilFey is this conversation getting out of line/hand? i don't wanna be the one but...i had to make my point
I haven't mentioned any personal views on the topic. This is for a reason. Well, several reasons... Personal views on the matter have nothing to do with my comments.
Short answer, they shouldn't have to say yes. Going off this logic, what if a person has a personal issue with, I don't know, pink hair? Should the game now include a specific set of assets to replace every single instance of pink hair with a different color? Let's make it more controversial. What if a person has an issue with people of a certain ethnicity, sexual orientation or religious belief system? Should the game offer an optional toggle for those elements?
Isn't this actually the same question as asking Nintendo to add a nudity/gore toggle to the next Mario game?
There is definately an audience for this, but would it make sense?
Presumably because it's what matters to him/her. It's not my place to tell someone else which subset of vices they should or shouldn't be offended by.
Edit: Only because someone will ask an idiotic question that they think is clever: I'm not declaring nudity, violence, or anything else to be vice or non-vice. That's up to each individual. I'm simply responding to the framing that was implied in the question.
Personal views? I'm not talking about any one person's personal views. I think we're addressing two different things.
My point is that regardless of what the detail is that's up for censorship, the act of censorship itself does not happen out of thin air. Censors don't wake up and go, "I don't approve of that. [CENSORED!]" It's a system put in place based on hundreds or thousands of individuals demanding the censorship. Then, a system of "dos and don'ts" is created, and that system is followed in that region.
A person making a request for censorship does not directly determine what will or will not be censored. That only happens after lots and lots and lots of people make the argument to ban a certain type of content with all sorts of validation to back up how and why they want it removed. If anything is censored, it's because LOTS of people wanted it gone. (In the vast majority of places, at least.)
That's why we have experts to draw the line, and it's not decided by anyone and everyone.
And like I argued earlier, it's also a lost cause, in the end. The amount of repression and sheer destruction that would be required to completely eradicate material of any sort is so extreme, we're talking Geneva Convention levels of wrongdoing. (Literally, the burning of the Library of Alexandria. And with most material stored on internet servers nowadays, instead of in physical form...there aren't enough torches in the world.) Hence, once something is created...it's out there. And anyone that really wants to see it is going to see it. Anyone that tries to censor anything is ultimately going to fail in the face of anyone that is determined to get the content.
Thus, I say trying to universally "ban" something is a waste of time. Rather, if anything could be deemed controversial to the point of being harmful to a certain demographic...just add a toggle. Let those who would rather not partake of one or two details still enjoy the rest. Why not?
Vice versa, if censoring something is the act that's causing harm, that's why we have those same experts to say, "No way. We're not censoring that."
The problem is, it's not the world we currently live in. Right now we have these highly subjective rating systems, decided upon by "experts", determining what is or isn't appropriate for content targeted at certain demographics. These rating systems already have to be navigated around by developers. Probably at great expense to them. They shouldn't have to go the extra mile to further censor their content because someone is inconvenienced they feel forced to play their adult rated game away from their young children.
I'm not sure I'd call them experts, but... yeah.
Anyway, this is the other side of the personal view comment. I can only assume you're saying rating systems are pointless here because they do not work. If it makes you feel any better, yes, rating systems are pointless because they don't work. I agree completely. Providing options to turn features on or off because they might be deemed inappropriate for someone is a much better approach.
...
I'd add, it's not hard to see where you're going here. The idea being games can begin offering optional toggles on top of the rating systems. Eventually, hopefully, we'll hit a point where those rating systems are recognized for the obsolete, ineffective concepts they are and replaced with a better option. Unfortunately, I don't think it will play out this way.
The way I see it playing out is a developer starts offering toggles for, I don't know, nudity. Now they feel pressured to continue doing it (cat is out of the bag, so to speak). From there other developers feel pressured into it. Next thing you know someone is asking, as mentioned earlier, for an optional toggle for pink hair. Meanwhile, they still must keep meeting whatever requirements the rating systems throw at them.
And, this all brings us full circle back to my original concern. As I'm sure you're aware, game design is often zero sum. You add X, you can't add Y. I'd rather not end up in a scenario where developers are walking on egg shells and devoting all their attention to optional toggles for feature after feature instead of making a decent game.
There's where I think many people misunderstand the situation. The developers do not have to navigate around it. They do not have to add or remove content because "a censorship board said so". They can choose to cooperate with the censorship if they want to market their game in that region. That's all. Everyone stands to gain something and lose something either way.
This is quite literally the regional equivalent of someone saying, "We don't use foul language in our house." No one has the right to "challenge" that rule while under that person's roof. It doesn't matter how silly or ridiculous I may find it. It's their home. I can respect it, or leave. There is absolutely no problem with that reality in any way whatsoever.
People are going to just get on with life no matter what the censors say. We're going to have adult-oriented material no matter how much some people may dislike it. People that a given society says "should never be exposed to such filth" are going to sneak over to their friend's house and see it there. Humans are going to continue doing exactly what they've always done.
Censorship has absolutely nothing to do with simply providing people options on how spicy they want their chicken wings.
They don't have to do so. If they're making the game they can do whatever they want. My understanding is development is pretty volatile though. If a studio pushes out game after game where they aren't making respectable profits there is a very real possibility they go tits up. There is a reason a great number of older studios from back in the day either disappeared or got swallowed up by the proverbial big boy studios.
Getting a game blacklisted in a region or across entire platforms (like Xbox/PS) isn't a realistic path. So yeah, it's a choice. It kind of isn't though.
Okay but, uh, flip this analogy around a bit. Suppose foul language is perfectly acceptable in the house. Now suppose someone challenges it while there and requests foul language be off limits while they're present. Replace the house with the game and the foul language with the game content/rating. That's where I get confused.
To put this differently... The game is in CDPR's house. It should play by CDPR's rules. Requesting or demanding options to alter it is indistinguishable from doing the same in the above analogy. Honestly, it's good you brought it up because this illustrates my point. I knew what the point was but didn't really know how to put it into words earlier. At least, not in a way where it could be understood fully.
Pretty much. The funny part is I often wonder if the act of censorship isn't counter-productive. The, "Kids shouldn't see this, let's block it.". A great way to make a young, impressionable mind want something is to tell them no .
It doesn't but combing through a game built with nudity in it and filtering out every single instance of it isn't a simple task. Cutting out every instance of violent behavior or language isn't either. Adjusting every instance of pink hair, same deal. Those tasks consume resources. Those resources have to come from somewhere...
I'd much prefer people understand the content in the game and accept it for what it is. Not request or demand a special toggle, just for them, to adjust it. Again, sending ratings packing and having options for all of this type of stuff instead would be ideal. Doing things in an ideal fashion isn't exactly the MO of humanity, unfortunately.
Hi I'm an X Box One X player I respect the fact that the game will be very mature. I would like to request an option to censor the nudity in the game... Asexual people in the community would also appreciate it. Thanks!