What CP's elements are(n't) cyberpunk-ish?

[0248991]

Hey,
what elements of CP77 do you think are and aren't cyberpunk-ish? - meaning that they do or don't represent cyberpunk as a genre.

Personally, I think there are many cyberpunk elements, especially in the base game, which show many aspects of the world, like:
- meeting nomads - living on roads, raids, cars, working together, freedom, responsibility,...
- meeting corpos - blind hunger for power justified by "prosperity", technology, resourcefulness, well-being...or not,...
- meeting people on the edge (like e.g. River's family) - people not getting enough resources (like food, water, clothes, time, work, education, money,...),...
- ...

I recently watched this video:

and it argues that CP77 is not (so much) a cyberpunk game, because it's missing the PUNK element - that people are dying no matter what, that they have no hope; nor rebel against the system. I disagree with that on quite many occasions.

What do you guys think?
Do you see a difference between the base game and PL?

 

[Hoplite_22]

It is more neon liberal than cyberpunk, but some of that is the nature of games and progression systems. But very much the main game story is not about breaking the system, weather or not you fail, it's about making it as a merc.

 

[0248991]

It is more neon liberal than cyberpunk, but some of that is the nature of games and progression systems. But very much the main game story is not about breaking the system, weather or not you fail, it's about making it as a merc.

I guess you are right.
V can break many things along the way, but it mostly doesn't stop the bigger entities from living through it.
In the end, it's about dealing with the relic.

Although it's pretty weird at the end when V is basically a nationality-level thread and can wipe out the whole Arasaka Tower alone, but there's still no greater force after him/her.

 

[0248991]

But very much the main game story is not about breaking the system, weather or not you fail, it's about making it as a merc.

What then are the smallest changes possible you would make to the game to make it more cyberpunk and less liberalistic?
What's your biggest immersion breaker in the game regarding the genre?

Do you have any favourite cyberpunk-themed plots, themes, symbolism,...or generally; design rules of the world?
Do you like what CDPR did with the design of the game as a whole?

What do you imagine a day in a cyberpunk's life is like?
And would/could it mostly differ from a liberal one?

 

[Hoplite_22]

What then are the smallest changes possible you would make to the game to make it more cyberpunk and less liberalistic?
What's your biggest immersion breaker in the game regarding the genre?

Do you have any favourite cyberpunk-themed plots, themes, symbolism,...or generally; design rules of the world?
Do you like what CDPR did with the design of the game as a whole?

What do you imagine a day in a cyberpunk's life is like?
And would/could it mostly differ from a liberal one?

its tricky because it would look very similar, but i think the street rep, not levels, should be what opens up what, who will talk to you and who won't, you are still going to have to beg borrow and steal to get what you need for you to hit back at them, but a stack of eddies and a garage full of cars? no.

but in the big problem is can you make any of that fun in a game? that question might be why we ended up where we are, that and the limits of tech.

 

[0248991]

i think the street rep, not levels, should be what opens up what, who will talk to you and who won't, you are still going to have to beg borrow and steal to get what you need for you to hit back at them, but a stack of eddies and a garage full of cars? no.

Right, nice one

can you make any of that fun in a game?

I think so. For starters, some sort of social system (street rep.) could be one thing, as you mentioned.

The begging, borrowing, etc.. could definitely be other. There are many such cases in the game - e.g. all romanceable characters (= NPCs with bigger story roles) ask something from V and give something in return - Judy gives V the braindance reader thingy & can leave with V, Panam gives a rifle, a bike, and a whole ending with nomads; and about River and Kerry I am not so sure, because I haven't played their romances

I think there are plenty of such elements in the game, but they are more subtle than the hands-on stuff like combat system and customization.

I find the atmosphere and attention to detail in the game to be absolutely insane - e.g. the dialogue with Evelynn in the booth - it's real, intriguing, informative, personal,... - I think it shows very well Evelynn's struggle, possibly what is she about, what does she want,... - to "punk" the system before it "cybernetically" (the race with VBs and Netwatch for the relic) punks her - she decided to risk being remotely fried for a chance to disappear with a ton of money - I think it shows both aspects of "cyber" and "punk".

 

[Bloodartist]

V can break many things along the way, but it mostly doesn't stop the bigger entities from living through it.

Over the course of the game, V does achieves precisely zero things that change the world. You have an effect in the lives of some individuals but those are insignificant. V starts a nobody and ends up as a nobody.

And its precisely why I can never give this game full score. The main story is its weakest element.

 

[0248991]

Over the course of the game, V does achieves precisely zero things that change the world. You have an effect in the lives of some individuals but those are insignificant. V starts a nobody and ends up as a nobody.

And its precisely why I can never give this game full score. The main story is its weakest element.

Hey,
I think it's more complicated than that - to "punk" against the system doesn't necessarily mean to (be able to) change it.

V can change the situations of individuals, and from their perspectives, it's not insignificant.
And can even destroy bigger entities like VBs, the Netwatch agent, Arasaka tower, Yorinobu,...
And definitely doesn't end up as nobody - (s)he reaches insane heights and the whole NC or even NUSA knows about him/her.

I guess that the biggest doubt we were discussing was that the game might be focused on V as an unbeatable hero (e.g. dealing with the relic, Arasaka, Adam Smasher, Hanako, V's ending, having many cars, many apartments, tons of money,...) too much, instead of on the theme of punking against the system - in the end, it was more like V declaring a one-man war against Arasaka, Dogtown and possibly NUSA.

So, I feel it's the exact opposite - V can massively influence bigger entities, to the point the game isn't about punking anymore.
But on the other hand, many of the entities seem to be unaffected by it - I can't understand how V and Aldecaldos can destroy Arasaka Tower and ride away to the sunset without being chased by an army - I find it not believable and inconsistent.