really? so you mean if just spell is used, it doesnt count as "player set". will have to try this too
Every skellige is using Coral because all other gold SK cards are trash. Lack of powerfull golden cards is a big problem for SK(and for Northern Kingdoms too). So nothing wrong with Coral/ AC itself (problem is in 20+ bronze cards and lack of players/content in Gwent)ResoundingBuahaha;n9846011 said:
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ZenaRose;n9851421 said:
Another skellige gold trash talk (sigh & facepalm). Let first admit Wolfsbane is practically a skellige gold alright? I don't want to be mean or sarcastic but honestly skellige gold are not trash especially when Coral is available to skellige. Every gold have its role and usually it demand a deck to be built around, a gold can have pro and con in various scenario and archetype and it's totally natural. A functional card don't have high tempo or a big body card provides some downside, some gold only best at early game like Iorveth, wolfsbane and some gold rather like a finisher and quite useless at beginning. Other golds like DJ extra, Cerys, Isengrim requires a deck or at least a package of cards built around it (deck thinning, key card . relevant mechanic etc). My point is, gold card usually require a fair condition to be good. However Coral is not the case.
Give Coral to any faction she is basically auto included as she did in skellige, simply because of her great effect (an engine shut down can't be revived, good tempo, gold body, flexibility.). You don't need to worry about any risk or downside running her, neither in long game nor in short game. This is a excellent good card regardless of archetype and is definitely different from a choice due to "no other option". Compared to Coral, SURE, other cards in skellige looks like trash, in fact the whole game don't have many gold could reach par with Coral. So you are partially right, no other gold can be so good like Coral in skellige so they look like trash, but it doesn't mean the other golds are bad stand alone and they shouldn't be that good in the first place, they subject to the common sense of pro and con above,or require a condition to be good. (The real trash here, Baron
).And other skellige gold's quality is, in any sense, irrelevant to the quality of Coral as far as I could concern, so please don't use that as evidence, doesn't make sense to me at least.
I wouldn't mind Coral having a bit less strength. Giving a silver card ability a body without conditions is often a dangerous thing (some silver cards produce impressive numbers on their own and every additional point hurts). Besides, in the current meta it's definitely very useful being able to get rid of certain cards for good and the +5 ensures that you always get enough value from it. AC on its own is a lot more risky.
Spellatell absolutely destroys every non-Tier 1 deck with the help of this card. I really wish CDPR would address this card because it's weak for other factions but my god, on Spellatell, it makes the game incredibly unfun. There is absolutely no way to play around it when you can play it twice, they almost ALWAYS have a fan way to be able use it round 1, and then they get to use it again. On top of the that, they introduced this ridiculous Muzzle card which makes it pretty much impossible to play against for certain decks.
Two Artefact Compressions & Muzzle exist as a reminder that you should've just copied a top deck for GwentDB instead.
Two Artefact Compressions & Muzzle exist as a reminder that you should've just copied a top deck for GwentDB instead.
Agree. Some cards do stuff like that in the game. You can take a 30+ power unit and eliminate it. I don't get why this card is allowed to do what it does while cards like Muzzle has a power limit.
For some reason some cards have limits on them, which is great, while others don't :/ Really curios to know the thought process behind that.
For some reason some cards have limits on them, which is great, while others don't :/ Really curios to know the thought process behind that.
olegavi;n9858041 said:
First of all, cards like Muzzle count for double points because you steal them away. Not limiting those is allowing for an unhealthy amount of power swing, unless the effect is delayed so it can be countered, like with Succubus. Besides, AC's strength isn't specifically bringing down big units because you have Scorch for that. Instead, it's targeting units with an active ability. Finally, buffing units has no limit either, but there is (and always should be) a risk it gets countered, not only by AC or Scorch, but also by a simple reset effect.
4RM3D;n9858201 said:
Unhealthy amount of power swing? You're joking right? Compressing a 35 power unit is not a power swing in your eyes? "AC's strength isn't specifically bringing down big units because you have Scorch for that" - Scorch comes with a big risk, you can kill your own as well. Same with igni, there's a condition.
"buffing units has no limit either, but there is (and always should be) a risk it gets countered, not only by AC or Scorch" - Agree, I just don't agree with the fact it can be done with one card. You can accumulate power the entire round just to have your opponent laughing at you while having Scorch or AC in hand. In some cases these cards can shut down entire archetypes such as consume, while some factions have little to no counter to their's (Spy NG).
olegavi;n9858441 said:
While that's definitely a power swing, it's an unrealistic example and also one that most players try to avoid because it can be easily countered, not just by AC, but also by things like Scorch effects, reset effects, Menno and Succubus, like I've explained. Besides, AC isn't really played much outside of Spell'Tael. If it really was that powerful, then more decks would use it. The exception is Coral, but that's because of the gold body and the lack of better alternatives.
The one thing that makes AC favorable is having no risks to play it. That still means it doesn't always find great value. Scorch's strength is its raw power potential, which can be devastating when two or more units are aligned. And the risk of running Scorch is little when your deck revolves around it. AC has its strengths and weaknesses, just like Scorch, or even like Mandrake.
EDIT: PS. "Artefact Compression is pretty overrated." - Swim
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Ι think it is best summed up in the opinion above, that on it's own, it is no big deal, but being able to reuse it can make it devastating. With Eithne, you don't even need to worry about playing it too early, you can always revive it later on if an opponent summons a unit you would prefer he doesn't have.
Now granted, it is not a very popular choice outside Spell'tael, like pointed out, but that's mostly due to the synergy faction specific silvers and golds have with that faction. Plus the fact that most decks can't really take advantage of it a second time, aside from Skellige (if Renew is in the deck) and Spell'Tael. Just because it isn't popular it doesn't mean it has no value.
If AC's Strength is targeting active units then the power limiter is not really hindering it right? You still have Scorch for powerful tagets, AC for things like Impera Enforcers or Nekkers. But not having a power limiter does inevitably allow it to fulfill the role of a targeted Scorch as well. It has the drawback of not being able to hit more than one targets, but the advantages of not being in danger yourself, taking out the unit permanently and being allowed to target what to banish.
Now granted, it is not a very popular choice outside Spell'tael, like pointed out, but that's mostly due to the synergy faction specific silvers and golds have with that faction. Plus the fact that most decks can't really take advantage of it a second time, aside from Skellige (if Renew is in the deck) and Spell'Tael. Just because it isn't popular it doesn't mean it has no value.
If AC's Strength is targeting active units then the power limiter is not really hindering it right? You still have Scorch for powerful tagets, AC for things like Impera Enforcers or Nekkers. But not having a power limiter does inevitably allow it to fulfill the role of a targeted Scorch as well. It has the drawback of not being able to hit more than one targets, but the advantages of not being in danger yourself, taking out the unit permanently and being allowed to target what to banish.
Gemueseknolle;n9851241 said:
Alright so I saw this counter happen again. This time it was used against me and not the spell, but Coral. I used Coral on Blueboy Lugos' whale and my opponent used Summoning Circle and he spawned another Blueboy Lugos and whale. Got me scratching my head. So I guess this can actually be a playstyle for Blueboy, since the whale doesn't actually come from the hand, but is spawned by an ability. Which is the logic as to why Summoning Circle should generally work as counter play to Artefact Decompression, but only seems to happen on very few select cases.
Help me out here people. Anybody else experiencing these flukes?
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Jigzter;n9889411 said:
From my own experience, Summoning Circle (SC) doesn't work when the unit played from hand is Artefact Compressed, regardless of whether or not the source was Coral or just the basic spell. This is consistent behavior and I haven't experienced any flukes. Also, when you play a gold unit from hand and then demote it to silver, it can be copied by SC. This means that SC re-evaluates the state of the last played unit after it was affected by a spell.
ZenaRose;n9851421 said:
Little more extreme than I'd put it, but it's true. I am without Coral and Lugos, and often feel at a disadvantage. I need my silver slots to make the deck work, and Coral and Muzzle act as a stand in for locking a unit without having to run shackles.
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4RM3D;n9889861 said:
Gotcha, thanks! That means SC can be used as counter-play to decompression in cases of resurrection or muster. Seems like that's gonna make it a standard for SK decks, like Sigdrifa. Yup, knew about the second point. I was able to duplicate a demoted Avallach in a mill deck I used before.
I don't agree that Artefact Compression overpowered. It's primarily an anti-big unit tool, and in that sense it's competing with Scorch. Scorch has the potential for much better upside. Compression gets past deathwishes and resurrects but it leaves a 2-power body behind. It also can't kill golds (Tibor).
Getting past deathwishes can be great but is often not that important. Aside from Nekkers, what deathwish is that important? If you cast Compression on a Morkvarg, you've effectively only gotten 3 tempo out of it (from 5 strength to 2, assuming the Morkvarg was discarded by Bran). Even against Nekkers you get little tempo out of it (at best, from about 11 power to 2). Remember it is a silver card, which has a higher bar. Compression is at its best against Avallach, but mill NG should still be able to mill 6 cards before you can Compression using its leader ability & Cahir.
I think Scorch is generally the better card. Compression is better in edge cases, but in general it's inferior to Scorch. Coral tacks Compression onto a 5-power body, but it's still not THAT good. Against Eredin for example, the best case you can hope for is to Compression your spy, which makes Coral a 15-power gold, which is solid but not spectacular.
Getting past deathwishes can be great but is often not that important. Aside from Nekkers, what deathwish is that important? If you cast Compression on a Morkvarg, you've effectively only gotten 3 tempo out of it (from 5 strength to 2, assuming the Morkvarg was discarded by Bran). Even against Nekkers you get little tempo out of it (at best, from about 11 power to 2). Remember it is a silver card, which has a higher bar. Compression is at its best against Avallach, but mill NG should still be able to mill 6 cards before you can Compression using its leader ability & Cahir.
I think Scorch is generally the better card. Compression is better in edge cases, but in general it's inferior to Scorch. Coral tacks Compression onto a 5-power body, but it's still not THAT good. Against Eredin for example, the best case you can hope for is to Compression your spy, which makes Coral a 15-power gold, which is solid but not spectacular.
Considering that nekker decks usually pack a whole swarm of them, the tempo you lose can range from minimal to game changing. Sure it turns an 11 power into 2. It also stops the player from summoning any of his other 2 - 6 nekkers which are sitting in his deck, with STR 10 or more. Not even with Slyzards, and the summoning circle will at best spawn a base copy.
And the potential to prevent the enemy from bringing on Cerys but I'll agree with you that this potential is minimal, considering Discard decks pack more than enough An Craite Raiders and medics.
Jeydra;n9893171 said:
Not being able to kill golds is not really important aside from Eggebracht, which is the only gold that Scorch can get rid of without AC being able to. Golds have lost their immunity, and there are not many strong golds in the game, they mostly rely on their abilities to deliver. And the 2 power body is negligent to say the least