**glances at DVD shelves**You don't like drama movies, no ?
Well, not a lot, anyway. A lot of the movies that aren't sci-fi/fantasy are rom-coms rather than, say, tearjerkers.
Well, not a lot, anyway. A lot of the movies that aren't sci-fi/fantasy are rom-coms rather than, say, tearjerkers.
I like it when you hope until the end that everything will end well and that in fact no that does not happen
I find it rather courageous on the part of CDPR to have done this (we like it or not it doesn't matter), that changes from the "easy" choice of the hero who always wins, saves the world and ends his life happy.
Then you and I probably shouldn't plan a movie outing together.I like it when you hope until the end that everything will end well and that in fact no that does not happen
Whether we like it or not matters a great deal, actually.
It's certainly made me less likely to purchase a CDPR game in the future...
And, were I in charge, I'd have been quite open to having a spectrum of "happy" and "sad" endings in order to please all players.
It depends on the story they wanted to write (and maybe DLCs in preparation. If we watch TW3, it's more of a happy ending
That's why I say it's courageous of them, knowing that it wasn't going to please everyone, CDPR did it anyway. While logic (at least commercial) would like it to please to as many people as possible.
This is one thing that really bugs me, cuz I never played any of the Witcher games; I have, basically zero interest in the premise or the setting, y'see. Also haven't played a Red Dead Redemption game, either, for pretty much the same reason. (I gave Cyberpunk a go cuz I likes me the high-tech settings, I does!)
So comparisons to those two franchises always kind of leaves me in the dark; not a clue what people are getting at when those are their go-tos.
"Brave" or not, I think it was not to their benefit. It certainly wasn't to mine.
I finished the game a while back; started one or two other playthroughs and just kinda...lost interest in playing the game as anything other than a shooter, after a while. I'm in a bad mood...? Let's kill a few bad guys, get that adrenaline going; that'll shake ya out of it, Kate!
And it's mostly because the ending I got was, like, way depressing. And I hear almost all of the endings are kind of depressing. So all I'm thinking while playing is, "I know this is going to end badly...I'll just kill stuff instead of following the story; it's less of a drag."
There is no rule that says that the main character should die because it is a dystopian world
the game is still not a bunch of sadness
In the whole story there are a lot of really nice moments (not sad at all), like with River, Kerry, Judy or Panam.
And for example I never do the Devil ending (i do it one time for see it), i like sadness but it's too much for me. Yet I still find it really good.
But i understand you're point of view (for me it would have been the opposite that I wouldn't like too much (a collection of "everyone is nice and happy")
the game is still not a bunch of sadness
True, true.
But we're kinda talkin' endings, here.
And now that I know perhaps more than I'd like about the possible endings to this game, I have to say that I'm not super on-board with any of 'em, cuz I want my happily-ever-after, and they don't provide.
Well...Panam, as a person/character, reminds me way too much of an ex who did a real number on my life (long story; nobody wants to hear it), which is kind of funny because she looked more like Judy. Talked more like her, too. I spent a lot of time not trusting Judy because she reminded me so much of my ex, physically, while I started out kinda-sorta thinking Panam was pretty cool...until I spent time with her and saw how much of her behavior reminded me of my old girlfriend...yeesh.
Okay, okay, I know; that's probably wildly off-topic for these forums. Or maybe it's not. I'm actually not sure.
I'm just sayin' that real life got in the way of my enjoyment more than once, playing this game. Heh. Not CDPR's fault; if anything, that's a testament to good writing, that I had such visceral reactions.
But i understand you're point of view (for me it would have been the opposite that I wouldn't like too much (a collection of "everyone is nice and happy")
Oh, well, I didn't mean to give the impression that I meant everyone would come to a happy end...or had to.
Well, like I said earlier in the thread, making V unsaveable would've been fine had they approached her character arc very differently i.e. have her make peace and come to terms with her mortality. But they don't do that, that's why the ending feels so unsatisfying (but, whatever, DLC will probably change that and she'll probably be saved).
Breaking Bad has one of the most satisfying endings to a story I've ever seen - but that show wasn't built around the idea that Walter could ever be cured, and a huge part of Walter's character arc is literally him coming to terms with his lot and making his peace. Ergo, satisfying ending.
If Breaking Bad was totally different and the whole concept was, "let's cure Walter" with all the plot threads leading up to him being cured, then him dying at the end would've felt incredibly deflating.
So it's not about whether or not the protagonist lives or dies, it's about whether or not that fits in with the story you're actually telling.
Breaking Bad has one of the most satisfying endings to a story I've ever seen - but that show wasn't built around the idea that Walter could ever be cured, and a huge part of Walter's character arc is literally him coming to terms with his lot and making his peace. Ergo, satisfying ending.
If Breaking Bad was totally different and the whole concept was, "let's cure Walter" with all the plot threads leading up to him being cured, then him dying at the end would've felt incredibly deflating.
So it's not about whether or not the protagonist lives or dies, it's about whether or not that fits in with the story you're actually telling.
There are enough hints that V can be saved, so I hope that the open endings are rather to be continued story (expansion)where V finds the cure.
Yes, you're right
Just reload a save for read the message (i hope it's the same in english and my translation is not wrong).
Panam :
"I hope you are making progress with your biochip problem."
V :
"We are starting to run out of time ... the chances of overcoming all this are diminishing."
Panam :
"Look, Saul and I, we've been thinking about a way to get the family back on track. We have a plan."
"But the most important thing is that we may be able to help you"
V :
"What kind of plan?"
Panam :
"TRUST ME !"
"If everything goes according to plan, then ... well let's say that the train breakage will be nothing next"
Sadly, nothing about the Arasaka Tower or the Relic
If it's for Arasaka tower, it's a bug (send message too early or else).
If it's about Relic it could be a remainder of content cut or a little teaser for futur DLC.
(I hope it's not too different in English, because there, it would be inevitable that we don't see things the same)
actually it could still be about the break in. I don't remember it, but someone said if you wander around the nomad camp talking to people someone reveals that they were thinking about trying the initial part of the plan, not the mikoshi part, but the attack arasaka part earlier. Shemay have assumed they could get something useful there.
The other possibility ties into the ending, where she says she knows someone in Arizona who may help. She only says this in the star ending, so its likely they needed resources from Arasaka to get help from this person/group. Essentially someone within the nomad network with expertise that might be useful to V, was willing to possibly help V, but demanded some arasaka tech in return. It would just mean they were working on helping V before the ending, which isn't that unlikely, panam is doer.
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yeah, but in the middle the cancer goes into remission, so the idea isn't always that he is always going to die.
To be honest, I don't think the game narrative is designed as a one off. I agree that they didnt really design the story such that it seems like the endings were the natural conclusion of V's story. Not just the dying angle, but most of the narrative arcs are incomplete from a character standpoint.
Devil ending V isn't quite at a place where they either received stability in exchange for service, or a place where they gave up everything to be a higher up. Which is two possible ways that story might develop. Instead they are at the turning point, where they just signed the deal with the devil or just decided to beat the devil at his own game.
Sun ending, V could die in the pursuit of glory, or Die trying to give back to the community or their city peops, but they don't end in either of those situations. The big heist, hasn't actually happened yet, or V hasn't found a way to give their lives and struggle meaning for those who come after them.
In star ending, the goal would be a life for the family, and helping the family survive, but the aldecado's are still very much in transition, and the family is not safe. You also don't get to help/see the family grow that much.
and if the story is a survival story, V has literally only solved one of their survival problems.
So, yeah I think the epilogues are supposed to show you where V's story is going in the future, not really be the ending of V's overall story.
I'd be very surprised if this was the end. However, I do think V could still die in the end, but not as is.
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My solution is after my first play through and discovering my ending (and later finding out about all the other endings) is not to play the game beyond 'the point of no return'. I've spent too much time with my character to just have him/her not to have the chance for at least one good / happy ending. I tend to get attached to my characters and I felt empty with a feeling of not accomplishing anything with that depressing ending I had in the first game. Yeah, sounds silly, but that is my choice.
I still enjoy this game despite this.
I still enjoy this game despite this.
I wonder how (if) they manage to merge endings.Because for that you already need to say that some endings are not cannon (V does not keep the body always,or is presumably dead),there are some drastic world changes between endings and even the status of some story NPCs is different depending on the ending and player actions.
When you make the end Arasaka, it is explained to you that you can't separate Johnny from V. It would have been possible if you hadn't been so merged with each other but when they perform the operation, it can't be done without killing V on the operating table... The fact is that in reality, it is Johnny who kills V and nobody can do anything about it, not even Johnny.
It seems to me that V dies three times... ( Dex's bullet, the Voodoo boys that burn you like a fuse and another time - I don't remember it but I remember picking it up at the time). Each time the relic reanimates the carrier and reconfigures his neural pathways...
On the contrary I think that the subject is preciously the questions about V looking for himself throughout the story and a fortiori, the player is questionning with him:
The price of freedom, the value of life, the place of the soul, the nature of humanity, the spirit of A.I. etc...
Throughout the quests these questions are asked and V finds - or not - his answers. Johnny himself evolves and ironicly find his place in humanity after is own death...
Yes the end is hard and has bitter and desperate tastes but we are talking about a post modern "cybe-punk" universe ! NO FUTURE guys! It CANNOT end well.
Live fast, live hard, die young, in a world where money wants to buy everything -even your own body- and where the real question is: what is priceless?
That's why it's not in vain!
With the creator of Cyberpunk 2020 himself at the helm, the story could only be well written. I only regret one thing. It feels like they finished too fast and ran out of time... We would have liked more!
It seems to me that V dies three times... ( Dex's bullet, the Voodoo boys that burn you like a fuse and another time - I don't remember it but I remember picking it up at the time). Each time the relic reanimates the carrier and reconfigures his neural pathways...
Why pointless ?
On the contrary I think that the subject is preciously the questions about V looking for himself throughout the story and a fortiori, the player is questionning with him:
The price of freedom, the value of life, the place of the soul, the nature of humanity, the spirit of A.I. etc...
Throughout the quests these questions are asked and V finds - or not - his answers. Johnny himself evolves and ironicly find his place in humanity after is own death...
Yes the end is hard and has bitter and desperate tastes but we are talking about a post modern "cybe-punk" universe ! NO FUTURE guys! It CANNOT end well.
Live fast, live hard, die young, in a world where money wants to buy everything -even your own body- and where the real question is: what is priceless?
That's why it's not in vain!
With the creator of Cyberpunk 2020 himself at the helm, the story could only be well written. I only regret one thing. It feels like they finished too fast and ran out of time... We would have liked more!
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Sorry, I don't really understand or follow what you're saying. I think we're probably on very different wavelengths. I've maybe not done a very good job of writing my posts; I'm definitely one of those annoying people who will say something which maybe sounds controversial initially, but once you keep reading, hopefully the nuance of what I'm actually saying comes across. I dunno. If it helps, I think I did a better job of answering that question at #29 and Ayinde_Palmer does a better job following on from that.
Sorry if I'm expressing myself poorly in what I'm trying to share. My English is not very good in writing.
It's Worse... as you're not doing a 1-to-1 comparison.
CDPR writing Breaking Bad making the show about Walter trying to live/overcome cancer - CDPR/Breaking Bad ending would have been huge job rescuing Jessie and a sick Walter stumbling into the Desert everyone still wondering if he will beat cancer - after spending seasons of the show going over why Walter wanted to live and everyone opining or encouraging him to find a cure.
Only for Walter White to stumble away into the sunset with the main premise unresolved.
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The story they started under Game Director 1 with Mike Pondsmith was vastly edited and changed when they both got a different Game Director as well as the massive rewrites to double the part of Silverhand.
Agreed, that's a perfect analogy haha. I still think DLC might give us the "actual ending" and resolve the main premise (which might feel a bit iffy, ethically speaking - unless it's free). Or they're secretly planning to continue V's story in a sequel...
Mike pondsmith said he has been pretty active in the process from what he said in interviews. Nothing he has said in interviews suggests he dislikes what they did with Johnny, or the plotline.
Let me add that the whole part about the operation to save Alt Cunningham is one of the published scenarios in Cyberpunk 2020, or, at least, one of the possible scenarios depending on how the players decide to follow the story in the original roleplaying paper game.
That's why Alt says something along the lines of "that's the story as Johnny remembers it, others probably remember it differently." Yes, it's not an exact quote, but in other words, it's a way of playing the scenario. My GM told me about it, I haven't read it personally since I may play it in the future. But he told me that it is possible to either play an OC mercs team or play the Rogue team with Johnny.
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