River Rework For Lesbian V

[remipearce]

Well the title says it all, I am mainly wondering if it's just me but the entire River questline has been just uncomfortable with me and in my long time I've gaming this is one of the few times I just reloaded a save just so I don't finish a quest, I dislike not doing 100% runs but Rivers dialogue for female V is always assuming you are flirting with him, hell I didn't even start the quest until after I had gotten with Judy, he gives me heavy vibes of actual real life creeps I've met and the fact my V seems into it AND when discussing stories it seems she is only ever implied to have an interest in men is so absolutely wild to me, I'm loving the game so far but this has genuinely surprised me with how poorly done it is.
TLDR I'm a lesbian woman playing a lesbian V and have to miss one hundred percenting a save because Rivers questline is just plain uncomfortable and removes player choice

 

[MartineDee]

Hi.
My take is that the player has to be able to say a clear no rather than tip toeing around it via the current dialogue options.

 

[eddie-eerie]

If you are playing on PC there is a good mod for it, ive played a female V in one of my playthrough and i agree, no matter what sexuality female V has, the River romance is really cringy and is probably the worse of all 4 options ingame. That you cant choose a option straight away to just brush him off is strange and he really cant take a hint. Check Nexus for "No River Romance Dialogue" and you can skip the entire Romance option but still complete the quest like male V can

 

[northwold]

Same issue for PanAm if you're a gay guy. It's just one of those things but, yes, an option would have been nice in the player choices to shut it down.

 

[mightymatt27]

Same issue for PanAm if you're a gay guy. It's just one of those things but, yes, an option would have been nice in the player choices to shut it down.

I know early on w/ Panam she asks if there is someone in V's life and the answers are basically 'No' and 'There might be', but I haven't given her the "might be" response w/ male V.

I always thought it would have been nice if River at least asked something like that. Granted, it would have to shut down the romance line to be relevant.

 

[northwold]

I know early on w/ Panam she asks if there is someone in V's life and the answers are basically 'No' and 'There might be', but I haven't given her the "might be" response w/ male V.

I always thought it would have been nice if River at least asked something like that. Granted, it would have to shut down the romance line to be relevant.

I found PanAm's behaviour very, very uncomfortable because you basically get trapped between leading her on or being a bastard without the option to say "I'm gay". But, well, it is what it is. From a gay perspective, River's "date" and subsequent rejection were oddly spot on and I rather liked it!

 

[mightymatt27]

I found PanAm's behaviour very, very uncomfortable because you basically get trapped between leading her on or being a bastard without the option to say "I'm gay". But, well, it is what it is. From a gay perspective, River's "date" and subsequent rejection were oddly spot on and I rather liked it!

Do you recall if you gave her the "Might have something going on" when she asks early on? (If you can recall). I assume it doesn't matter and she acts like that regardless, I'm just curious.

 

[northwold]

Do you recall if you gave her the "Might have something going on" when she asks early on? (If you can recall). I assume it doesn't matter and she acts like that regardless, I'm just curious.

It's a long time since I played it so can't remember what I'd have said. I remember feeling obliged to sleep with her so as not to hurt her feelings. :-]

 

[mightymatt27]

It's a long time since I played it so can't remember what I'd have said. I remember feeling obliged to sleep with her so as not to hurt her feelings. :-]

Oh my gosh,

 

[Bloodartist]

Well the title says it all, I am mainly wondering if it's just me but the entire River questline has been just uncomfortable with me and in my long time I've gaming this is one of the few times I just reloaded a save just so I don't finish a quest, I dislike not doing 100% runs but Rivers dialogue for female V is always assuming you are flirting with him, hell I didn't even start the quest until after I had gotten with Judy, he gives me heavy vibes of actual real life creeps I've met and the fact my V seems into it AND when discussing stories it seems she is only ever implied to have an interest in men is so absolutely wild to me, I'm loving the game so far but this has genuinely surprised me with how poorly done it is.

You can't blame him from being interested, but I remember that you could simply say no at one point. After which its just having a beer on top of a watertank or a dinner with the family etc just be good friends. Gotta pay attention to the dialog choices, as there simply isn't much actual variety in them.

I found PanAm's behaviour very, very uncomfortable because you basically get trapped between leading her on or being a bastard without the option to say "I'm gay". But, well, it is what it is. From a gay perspective, River's "date" and subsequent rejection were oddly spot on and I rather liked it!

I play only female V's and I remember how Panam politely said not being interested after I made a move in that cabin in the sandstorm (I cant remember exact words, but it was pretty clear). Same as with River, you can be good friends, you dont need to be a bastard.

 

[alittleLowkey]

You can't blame him from being interested, but I remember that you could simply say no at one point. After which its just having a beer on top of a watertank or a dinner with the family etc just be good friends. Gotta pay attention to the dialog choices, as there simply isn't much actual variety in them.

It's a no after him coming on very stronly, and Johnny making comments about how you are obviously attracted to River. I can see how that can feel off to people since you have no say in it at all. Also it's a pretty weak I have to much in my life no, rather than a I'm just not into you since i like girls no. Or a I'm in a relationship no witch would also be reasonable

Similar comments are made about how you get butterflies when seeing Judy, so it goes both ways. It would be nice if you could shut down all of these immediately upon meeting the characters in some way.

 

[mightymatt27]

Right now I'm trying every rude or rude-adjacent choice in convos involving River. As we know, it's impossible over texts since your choices are flirt or flirt-lite. The best ones were with his sister talking about the Randy search because you can completely blow up his vibe. It's funny though he doesn't react much. I don't expect this will change anything when it comes to the diner/water tower scene.

Part of what makes RIver's come on particular strong in the line "Tell me you know why we're up here?" signaling not just that he's hoping you know, but that you should know. And the only reason I can't technically fault him for that is because all the text responses V has available are flirt or flirt-lite. This, of course, is just a contrivance of the writing. And THEN he follows up with "Don't string me along".... Bruh... BRUH!... I have not done a damn thing to string you along. Don't put that on me.

 

[Bloodartist]

how that can feel off to people since you have no say in it at all.

Guess what. You have no say in what other people say.

You however DO have a say in what you YOURSELF say.

 

[alittleLowkey]

Guess what. You have no say in what other people say.

You however DO have a say in what you YOURSELF say.

Guess what, you don't have a say in what you yourself say (as V). You have a say in what predetermined options you pick from a dialogue tree. And those options dictates that you can only say no after River has asked you not to string him along. There are plenty of times before that when I (the real person) would have said something about having a partner or not being into guys. But those options are not available.

You can't even say that you have a partner when Joss straight up asks you during dinner.

 

[mightymatt27]

Guess what, you don't have a say in what you yourself say (as V). You have a say in what predetermined options you pick from a dialogue tree. And those options dictates that you can only say no after River has asked you not to string him along.

100%
1. As has been said exhaustively. The dialogues/opportunities to shut down a romance are limited at best.
2. In many cases it seems like the only opportunity to shut it down is to be a dirtbag.
3. And this is something being missed. There are little to no instances where reaching a relationship green light is earned. Sure you do an important mission. But anyone can do that.

It's not like the dialogue structure of this romance line is some new fangled concept and the limitations are the best gaming has to offer. I'm glad the options exist, they're cool, but the implementation is very basic and these criticisms call that out.

Other games have the player character make inquiries and commentary that affects some sort of approval mechanic. One of those things will be Personal Companion mission, but that's only part of it. CP2077 leans on the personal mission almost exclusively.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Do you recall if you gave her the "Might have something going on" when she asks early on? (If you can recall). I assume it doesn't matter and she acts like that regardless, I'm just curious.

Doesn't change at all, because Panam basically ask if V have "good friend(s)" like Mitch and Scorpion for her (this question is the direct continuation of the dialogue about Mitch and Scorpion). So "might be" means that maybe V and Panam could eventually become friends soon.

2. In many cases it seems like the only opportunity to shut it down is to be a dirtbag.

I never felt I had to be a dirtbag with anyone. River didn't get the few previous hints that you're not interested, but even on the tower, don't need to be a dirtbag anyway.

 

[mightymatt27]

Doesn't change at all, because Panam basically ask if V have "good friend(s)" like Mitch and Scorpion for her (this question is the direct continuation of the dialogue about Mitch and Scorpion). So "might be" means that maybe V and Panam could eventually become friends soon.

I expected as much, thanks.

I never felt I had to be a dirtbag with anyone. River didn't get the few previous hints that you're not interested, but even on the tower, don't need to be a dirtbag anyway.

Not the point. Because an option doesn't exist to express a non-interest, It seems like the only option is to not help him with Randy. There are some dialogue options when V first meets Joss where V can be direct/blunt/rude. Call it dirtbag or not, they are definitely options that are contrary to how he would have liked it to go. The only move I can think of right now to put River off V is to not help with Randy. Huge dirtbag move.



One other note/question. Has anyone has these sorts of issues with Kerry? I have not, using both male and female V.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Not the point. Because an option doesn't exist to express a non-interest, It seems like the only option is to not help him with Randy.

Well, that's just me, but he didn't really asked too or at least, nothing which required a straight answer. But you can give him few hints ("better to find Randy" instead of "Drink a beer together" / "It’s not been that long since we last saw each other" when he said he miss you,...)
He didn't get them (or didn't want to get them), but it never bothered me. I'd say it's pretty flattering and River's "clumsy" way of trying is rather cute. No need to be rude

On side note, how many playthroughs I watched when players who played male V and still tried to romance Judy until the end... while she also provide hints all along her quest line that she's not into guy at all

 

[mightymatt27]

Well, that's just me, but he didn't really asked too or at least, nothing which required a straight answer. But you can give him few hints ("better to find Randy" instead of "Drink a beer together" / "It’s not been that long since we last saw each other" when he said he miss you,...)
He didn't get them (or didn't want to get them), but it never bothered me. I'd say it's pretty flattering and River's "clumsy" way of trying is rather cute. No need to be rude

I mean, that's the thing though. I'm treating him the way I treat any friend only none of my friends are hopelessly in love with me and asking me not to string them along (unless... )

Him not getting the hint seems sad to me
Him not getting it on purpose... yikes

On side note, how many playthroughs I watched when players who played male V and still tried to romance Judy until the end... while she also provide hints all along her quest line that she's not into guy at all

What can I say, guess we're living in a world full of Rivers. (though I'd say most of those are really just puddles )

 

[alittleLowkey]

On side note, how many playthroughs I watched when players who played male V and still tried to romance Judy until the end... while she also provide hints all along her quest line that she's not into guy at all

I told my wife about it and got that look that just says 'Oh honey'.