we will see. I for one am not picking up the game again until the next gen upgrade patch. i might try another run then if it is solid but as it is i have no urge to do another playthrough
As an artist in my spare time I get the whole WIP disclaimer, but there is a correct way to use it and a not so correct way. For example anytime I or any other sculptor shows progress shots of what we're working on is usually bare bones with the disclaimer WIP; what you will not see are sculptors showing off some really awesome looking statue with immense amount of details while touting it's a WIP only to then release final shots of the finished statue with all those details toned way back.Sorry, I don't follow. How is it fake advertising if someone:
1) warns you that the promo material you're watching is subject to change
2) warns you that you should expect some features to be cut and altered by the time the game comes out; that this is only meant to give you the rough idea of what the game is and nothing beyond that
3) informs you of the most notable cut features well in advance
What should the correct course of action be when developers can't find the way to implement some features they've initially planned to include? Hit the cancel button on the entire project or tell customers about what was cut and leave them to decide if they still want to buy the game or not. They did the latter.
So what's the answer? Don't show WIP? They certainly won't after what happened. Not before any future game is 95% done. They didn't even plan to show 48 min demo to the public, only to journalists. It was only after 3-4 months of constant "SHOW US WHAT YOU SHOWED TO THEM!!!" that they decided to release it.In short, you don't go backwards from a WIP.
The answer is show only what you can achieve.So what's the answer? Don't show WIP? They certainly won't after what happened. Not before any future game is 95% done. They didn't even plan to show 48 min demo to the public, only to journalists. It was only after 3-4 months of constant "SHOW US WHAT YOU SHOWED TO THEM!!!" that they decided to release it.
With all the respect to your profession (i'm a nullity in arts so is real respect), but comparisons only work between similar subjects/disciplines and i can guarantee you that in software and hardware development changing and redifining during the project is mostly not to add features.As an artist in my spare time I get the whole WIP disclaimer, but there is a correct way to use it and a not so correct way. For example anytime I or any other sculptor shows progress shots of what we're working on is usually bare bones with the disclaimer WIP; what you will not see are sculptors showing off some really awesome looking statue with immense amount of details while touting it's a WIP only to then release final shots of the finished statue with all those details toned way back.
Another example are the companies XMSTUDIOS and PRIME1, they'll show WIP shots of their upcoming prepaint statues that look phenomenal, but then the final shots of the final design look more awesome sometimes even completely redesigned with a better pose and more elaborate base,etc.
In short, you don't go backwards from a WIP.
The concept remains the same in that you show what you can achieve or paint a roadmap of the direction( usually forward ) of where you are headed. To throw in a bunch of features for the sake of a demo that you only tested for the scripted video only to remove said features is bad.With all the respect to your profession (i'm a nullity in arts so is real respect), but comparisons only work between similar subjects/disciplines and i can guarantee you that in software and hardware development changing and redifining during the project is mostly not to add features.
I really think that from now on this is exactly what will happen and therefore we will not see anything at all or almost until a few weeks/days before the release (and not only for CDPR)The answer is show only what you can achieve.
That what Bethesda did for Fallout 4 and it worked out, marketing wise.I really think that from now on this is exactly what will happen and therefore we will not see anything at all or almost until a few weeks/days before the release (and not only for CDPR)
A computer game is not a physical object, let's be fair here.As an artist in my spare time I get the whole WIP disclaimer, but there is a correct way to use it and a not so correct way. For example anytime I or any other sculptor shows progress shots of what we're working on is usually bare bones with the disclaimer WIP; what you will not see are sculptors showing off some really awesome looking statue with immense amount of details while touting it's a WIP only to then release final shots of the finished statue with all those details toned way back.
Another example are the companies XMSTUDIOS and PRIME1, they'll show WIP shots of their upcoming prepaint statues that look phenomenal, but then the final shots of the final design look more awesome sometimes even completely redesigned with a better pose and more elaborate base,etc.
In short, you don't go backwards from a WIP.
Neither is a digital sculpture, until it's printed. Again, the concept is the same in regards to a WIP.A computer game is not a physical object, let's be fair here.
I can agreeA computer game is not a physical object, let's be fair here.
A computer game is not a physical object, let's be fair here.
I can't comment about hype and that as I didn't follow that but I don't think creating a digital sculpture requires working with other people, entire departments. There's is one creator, for product like CP 2077 there are many visions from different people and those visions are bound to clash at some point.Neither is a digital sculpture, until it's printed. Again, the concept is the same in regards to a WIP.
The difference is that a videogame (software in general, some types of hardware like integrated circuits or @CS554 car example) are complex systems understood as a systems composed of multiple systems interacting with each other, that might work isolated or in limited scales (like a demo) and stop working or working unexpectly when tested in large scale or with unpredicted inputs (as millions of operating systems updates testify) .Neither is a digital sculpture, until it's printed. Again, the concept is the same in regards to a WIP.
Depends, if you're sculpting for yourself then no you don't work with other people. If you're sculpting for a client/private collector you're working with/for them and doing the piece based on their designs and specifications, which can and do change through the course of the project.I can't comment about hype and that as I didn't follow that but I don't think creating a digital sculpture requires working with other people, entire departments. There's is one creator, for product like CP 2077 there are many visions from different people and those visions are bound to clash at some point.
Something comparable I can think of is car industry where it often takes 6 years from concept car to mass production (if concept makes it at all) and mass market version may not have that much in common with original concept car.
For CP 2077 their work making visual models, body language including micro expressions and writing together is something I haven't seen anywhere else. Gaming industry likes this story how every new product is so much more impressive, but what I have seen really is better graphical fidelity powered by more RAM and more powerful CPU's and especially GPU's. That's not the same thing at all what was done with CP 2077.
Adding a bunch of features for an isolated environment and then removing said features when actually trying to incorporate into the game falls more under an alpha or early tech demo. I get that features are dropped during a games development but in cyberpunks case it was rather extreme.
So to sum up your post it was simply bad direction. A WIP is a WIP whether hundreds of people are involved or not, you show the direction, what can be achieved, hundreds of people being involved doesn't change that core aspect period, whether sculpting, programming or building a rocket.I don't think it was. What did they drop? Wallrunning? Whoop. They let you have jump, double jump and *&^@ hover legs. I can assure you most of those weren't in the PnP and I recall only seeing a boost jump once in a trailer. Netrunning? We never saw the minigame hacking, but we saw the quickhacks. The deep-run netrunning was changed - had it been left in, I guarantee you many people would complain it was too complicated or intensive or just not-fun. A la braindance.
What else? I've seen the reddit lists and I laugh. Most of that is stuff one dev said in an interview once, while talking about what the current state was or what they hoped for. Or what players decided was in the game, such as riding the metro. Hardly show-then-take-away.
I liked the line from one of the "TV" spots where they talked about a customized sportscar and players decided that meant that customization was in the game.
The disjunction between what many players thought that the game was going to be and what it was is far from just CDPR's fault. Players heard what they wanted to hear, read what they wanted to see and ignored any later corrections or clarifications.
Should CDPR have said a lot less, since they obviously didn't realise how -much- people thought was going to be there? Oh yes. Should they have shown so many things that you couldn't do in-game like ride the metro or dual wield or have a good car chase? No, in retrospect, obviously not.
Thing is, they did this for Witcher series and it worked out, because people hadn't put that series on some impossible pedestal. Outside the console snafu, most of CDPR's failure in commitment was simple - they mismanaged hype and expectations. I think they know that now.
Also, comparing sculpting a single piece of art or even a series of pieces to a many-year, hundreds-of-people involved, multi-million dollar mega project? Not the same scale at all. What you are offering and showing clients is in a really different atmosphere and with really different expectations on both sides. Not to mention, much clearer communication opportunities than with the millions CDPR was trying to talk to/with.
So to sum up your post it was simply bad direction. A WIP is a WIP whether hundreds of people are involved or not, you show the direction, what can be achieved, hundreds of people being involved doesn't change that core aspect period, whether sculpting, programming or building a rocket.
Letting journalist run wild with exaggeration of features has also been a long time tactic of developers/publishers to help hype and sell their games and then claim plausible deniability; as well as wordplay from the developers themselves which fuels speculation and hype that they never correct until well after a games release with a "this is what was said and if you thought that meant confirmation then that's on you even though we intentionally worded it in a grey area and never explicitly said it was not a feature."
Admittedly I didn't follow the hype for cp2077, didn't watch any of the dev streams, etc. It wasn't until the complaints that I started looking back. Even disregarding the topic at hand on what was cut and what wasn't lack of certain basic features in this type of game show that maybe it was too ambitious for cdpr as the development appears to have been all over the place even more lack of visual customization in a game centered on the cyberpunk universe shows also maybe they didn't have a clear understanding of the content. CDPR was put on a pedestal for a reason. There were always going to be people upset no matter how the game turned out.
My only hope is that, at least on the pc, the modders will make the game better with an actual toolkit.
Trigger warning! I've made no comparison to sculpting and making a rocket or video game. Try reading all my replies again.You've compared sculpting to building a rocket now... I don't wish to denigrate sculpting but clearly I've underappreciated just how incredibly complex and unpredictable it must be.