DRK3's Thread (Farewell)

[DRK3]

Long time no see, guys (two months, to be more accurate).

I came here to post because this week i acquired and started playing 'Rogue Mage'. Its something i wanted to do since it launched, and at the moment, it also acts as a replacement to Gwent, without the frustration of facing a legion of netdecks.
I know by now, most players either already played it and moved on, or simply arent interested, but i wanted to share my first impressions and this is the most appropriate place to do so:

-The first impact i had was how close most cards are to Gwent.
I was under the impression it had a LOT of differences, not in the card art but in their text, so it would be like learning a whole new game - a prospect which i was looking for - but that is not the case. Most cards are almost exactly the same, they just have different base power if they're upgraded or with different rarities.

-Still, i enjoy having different base decks, with each having cards that belong to different factions in Gwent and you wouldnt normally be able to mix. Also the element of spells, potions and treasures adds to the variety and the excitement of leveling up and unlocking new gameplay elements.

-A couple of days ago i finished the game on the first difficulty, and i was very disappointed in how they tackled higher difficulties: its not AI based, instead its just a collection of modifiers you can turn on and off.
I am not suprised by this, its the easy way to do things and im used to that by now, coming from Gwent. The problem is how random it makes each run, even on the lowest it can be brutal if you have the bad luck of facing some very tough opponents and even more bad luck if you are using an archetype that is countered by their strategy... this is exactly one of the core aspects i was hoping i wouldnt find in Rogue Mage, that you always find in Gwent, but alas, its still there.
Also, why are the elite enemies harder than the final bosses? I never lost against a boss, but elites are absolute nightmares, and i was only able to beat them when i got lucky with treasures and cards.

Overall, im enjoying it, i do recommend it, but it doesnt escape from many problems that also afflict Gwent.
From those who played, what do you think about it?

 

[betraymechino]

Hi there!

I was under the impression it had a LOT of differences, not in the card art but in their text, so it would be like learning a whole new game - a prospect which i was looking for - but that is not the case. Most cards are almost exactly the same, they just have different base power if they're upgraded or with different rarities.

That's because RM was originally supposed to be part of Gwent - an additional, single-player mode. Which I think it should have stayed. Thronebreaker had an excuse for why it was detached from Gwent (though not unquestionable), but the reasoning of filesize doesn't work in case of RM. I'm fairly sure that being part of Gwent would be beneficial for both games and I strongly suspect the only reason RM was released separately is because the dev team knew CDPR won't give them resources to support it further.

-A couple of days ago i finished the game on the first difficulty, and i was very disappointed in how they tackled higher difficulties: its not AI based, instead its just a collection of modifiers you can turn on and off.
I am not suprised by this, its the easy way to do things and im used to that by now, coming from Gwent. The problem is how random it makes each run, even on the lowest it can be brutal if you have the bad luck of facing some very tough opponents and even more bad luck if you are using an archetype that is countered by their strategy... this is exactly one of the core aspects i was hoping i wouldnt find in Rogue Mage, that you always find in Gwent, but alas, its still there.

I actually like the idea of modifiers a lot. They're like harder and harder obstacles that come in Alzur's way, which I find thematically very fitting. However, they highlight a problem you mentioned here...

Also, why are the elite enemies harder than the final bosses? I never lost against a boss, but elites are absolute nightmares, and i was only able to beat them when i got lucky with treasures and cards.

... and that is the randomness of many enemies that are supposed to artificially increase their difficulty level. And that's one of the reasons why Elite enemies seem harder than Bosses. Bosses are designed with a set power values, while Elite enemies have mostly random values and abilities. So in some encounters they won't be more difficult than standard enemies, while in others they'll wreck you completely. I don't necessary think that's a bad thing, because there are ways to play around this rng and learning how enemies play for future encounters* is part of the rogue-likes gameplay, but I feel there might be too much focus on rng not only in Elite enemies, but also in some Standard ones.
Another reason why Elite enemies may seem harder than Bosses is because, by the time you reach Boss fight, you already have bulked up deck, while you can fight Elite enemies with still pretty basic deck.

Overall, im enjoying it, i do recommend it, but it doesnt escape from many problems that also afflict Gwent.
From those who played, what do you think about it?

I'm a known fanboy for single-player Gwent, so I enjoyed it quite a lot and spend over 120 hours in it, but I have some gripes with it. Ones that keep me away from playing RM more.
One is obvious lack of content. *Quite quickly you encounter all available enemies and learn how to play against them, even on higher difficulty and with modifiers on. Honestly, to keep it fresh there should be twice as many enemies across all types of enemies.
Another obvious thing is the minimal story - knowning how good CDPR is at it, it's a real shame that they didn't want to provide more resources in that department.
But my biggest gripe is the linearity of the gameplay: choose a basic deck > complete the map > defeat the boss > start again.
What it needed is an endless mode, where you keep your deck and start a new run with some modifiers applied. Starting anew, with the same basic deck (it could use some more variety here too), after ending a run with a deck that is finally somewhat unique is quite discouraging and often made me just close the game instead playing further.
I also think that the variety of the battles could be improved. You know I'm a Gwent-puzzles nerd, so it's not surprising, but I believe that adding a bunch of puzzles as encounters would improve the variety of the playthroughs. Especially since you'd only have one take at the puzzle, so you'd really have to think it through.

I still enjoyed it a lot, but unfortunately it suffered similar fate as Thronebreaker - was in development too long, then just got dumped on us and since obviously it didn't sell amazingly, CDPR completely turned its back on it, unwilling to build on it more.

Still worth playing, though

 

[DRK3]

But my biggest gripe is the linearity of the gameplay: choose a basic deck > complete the map > defeat the boss > start again.
What it needed is an endless mode, where you keep your deck and start a new run with some modifiers applied. Starting anew, with the same basic deck (it could use some more variety here too), after ending a run with a deck that is finally somewhat unique is quite discouraging and often made me just close the game instead playing further.

I agree with your other comments, so i wont respond to those, only to this:
I am unaware if you're into other videogame genres or not, but in case maybe some other user doesnt know, i will say this - Rogue Mage is a roguelite game, and roguelites/likes are a genre that became very popular in the past 4/5 years, particularly in the indie game industry, hence why CDPR had a variation of Gwent within this genre.

Your frustrations are familiar to me, i too felt like that when i started playing roguelites, but i eventually got used to, basically starting from scratch on each run.
(This is my 5th roguelike/lite: Dead Cells, Curse of the Dead Gods, Slay the Spire - ALSO a roguelite card game and the one most similar to Rogue Mage - , Hades and now Rogue Mage.)
Some have a better sense of progression than others, Hades is probably the most accessible and enjoyable, but Rogue Mage is defnitely not the worst, at least you get to pick the basic deck, the key card, the potion and the spells... in a true roguelike you always start with 0.

 

[betraymechino]

Yes, I'm well aware, StS is one of my favourite games. The map in RM just seem too short and I think a second, "endless" mode would do wonders (at least for me) to enjoy it more.

 

[DRK3]

ROGUE MAGE
Hello everyone, its very fitting that i return to my "personal update thread" with a post about me finally finishing Rogue Mage 100%, when my last post was about me starting that game, 6 months ago! Yes, it took me that long, and i'll explain why.
It may seem unbelievable, i can barely believe it myself as it happened...

So, i played Rogue Mage casually for 2-3 months, for roughly 100h, where i did all the diifferent difficulty runs, got to level 100 and unlocked everything... but 3 pesky achievments, all 3 based on luck, purely random, keeping me away from 100%.
If i was a reasonable person, i would have ignored them and move on, satisfied with what i got from that game. But am i a reasonable guy?

So basically, i spent the following 3 months, the past 3 months up to this day, trying to get those achievments, specifically, 'Swift Transaction' in case anyone's curious on which one almost broke me.
The thing is... Today would be my last day either way, i had set it as the limit for getting that missing achievment i've grown to hate, and just as when i was on my last run before giving up and uninstalling it, that dwarven merchant bastard popped up (which is already rare) and asked me for a treasure i actually got (out of possible 40 options). I couldn't believe my luck, after 100+ hours of boresome grinding (because i already had done everything else), of not knowing whether i would ever get it, of thinking i could be playing something i actually enjoy instead, i somehow got it.
That's it, my luck has been exhausted forever and i'll never repeat something as stupid in search of stupid achievments, that's a promise.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GWENT
And what better way to celebrate, than to reinstall Gwent tomorrow morning after a 7-month hiatus, and see how long it takes for me to be reminded of why i left it several times in the first place!
I know i shouldn't, means im failing my resolution to abandon it for good once again, but i'll do my best to keep it casual. That means no 'deck of the day' revival, i might share some new decks but i wont go to the trouble of writing long, detailed text guides that no one has the patience or the time to read them all.

Why now?
I've been watching some streams and videos for the past 3 weeks, so im mostly up to date on the meta. I know it may not be the most pleasant, but guess what? It never is. And i know for sure that players experiencing sh*t for the first time are more tolerant to it than those that have been dealing with it for many consecutive months. What i mean is: i can accept the unbalanced crap, as long as its different from the one that dominated the meta when i left (looking at you, reavers...)

August will let me try the new stuff, not just from The Tide Rises but also from the previous card drop, and all the reworks. A month should be enough, and when im about to get tired of it again, the last card drop EVER hits in Setember. I mean, if i was here in the beginning, 7 years ago, i might as well be here when it ends.

See you on the battlefield.

 

[quintivarium]

Welcome back.

Post automatically merged: Jul 31, 2023

I think you will find lots of meme potential in the new cards (partly because there are so many almost broken cards that can be copied over and over). Unfortunately, most are not only very binary; they are pretty obvious with no real strategy.

 

[DRK3]

"First impressions" and other comments:

1. I was deranked to rank 17, which is nice to win easily for awhile, but unfair to the opponents i'll face. I read that summer cycle thingy only works on ranked, so i guess i will be sticking with that mode.

2. The summer cycle page says it ends in 1st Setember. So i guess in 1 month i wont be able to reach lv 250 to earn that cardback, which is OK, i have plenty of cardbacks. Maybe i could still do it, but i dont intend to grind and play "forcedly" against a deadline.

3. Still, i like the concept of deck restrictions, seeing it as challenge, so i built a deck to do the cycle quests, i used it on ranked, and alas, it didnt work. I had been seeing a lot of players complaining about these bugs and i paid them no mind, no its my turn to feel the pain

4. The cards i was most interested in trying arent even from the tide rises expansion, but from the previous, like Kraken and Kelpie, and reworks like the new Delirium or Axel. Not surprising, all i want is Skellige (but not warriors, and maybe just a little pirates).

5. I also want to check the reworked Dragons and bonded units, and possibly do a new full neutral deck. And there are neutral scenarios? What the hell is this?

6. Overall, i think the claw and dagger card drop was probably the biggest fail. Its good if they deliberately wanted to avoid powercreep, but when almost none of the cards broke into the meta, and from watching streams, even before the tide rises update, i rarely saw them and dont know that set of cards with the exception of MO insectoids, which found their way into the Masters qualifiers tournament.
(Oh and i know Drakenborg was big, but fortunately it was killed soon, to never be seen again)

7. What the hell are those Nekkers in the shop? They're quite expensive, so i suppose they are meant to be resource sinks. Are they like neutral leader models? Do they do any animation?

8. I was a bit disappointed to see no new trees in reward book, but all seasonal trees are available so i guess its finally time to complete them all, only got 2 left, which should take only a few weeks to accumulate the necessary RPs.

9. The animations for opening kegs is much faster, i dont know when it changed but its a welcome change. Opened 100 kegs very quickly to try and get some new cards, but the card pool is so large now it feels like its more probable to get a legendary than a new card from 2023

10. I would love to play against forum users, feel free to send me challenges or friend requests (in this case also send me a PM through the forums before, so i know you're not an angry opponent trying to insult after a match)

 

[StanislavOZZO]

hey mate, great to see you back =)
I am sure you've already figured a way to progress through summer cycle quickly. I reckon you could reach 250 level in a couple of days of active play.
Here is the strategy I use:
- I have just one vampire deck to progress in summer cycle
- I use ore to instantly unlock the quests
- I reroll quests with scraps until all 9 quests refer to Crimson Curse vampires or monsters
In just a couple of games I get these achieved and repeat the process again.

 

[quintivarium]

Vampires are also good for quests with boost and bleeding requirements.

 

[DRK3]

hey mate, great to see you back =)
I am sure you've already figured a way to progress through summer cycle quickly. I reckon you could reach 250 level in a couple of days of active play.
Here is the strategy I use:
- I have just one vampire deck to progress in summer cycle
- I use ore to instantly unlock the quests
- I reroll quests with scraps until all 9 quests refer to Crimson Curse vampires or monsters
In just a couple of games I get these achieved and repeat the process again.

Thanks. Currently i am Lv 160, on the past few days i have been progressing little because ive been ignoring cycle and been using decks i find more interesting. But im still on track to reach lv 250 by the end of the month.

Its funny that only now im getting close to running out of resources. Particularly scraps and ore, i've always had "infinite" amounts of it during Homecoming Gwent, but due to those Nekker figures in the shop that are resource sinks, i had to use most of my ore to open kegs and get enough MPowder to also transmute all missing cards. Plus, those cycle quest unlocks and rerolls, im finally using more ore than what i get, and i like it.

What i dont like is that two of the biggest feats possible in Gwent, that require thousands of hours into the game and simply are not rewarded (or its not working as intended):
-Reaching Max level. Prestige 10, Lv60. Ive been there for years, and the achievment for it, that gives the 'Elder' title is still bugged
-Completing every single reward book tree, that ive only done last week, gives you absolutely nothing

 

[DRK3]

Welcome to the...

DRAGON CHRONICLES - ENTRY #0

What are these 'Dragon Chronicles'?
Its my newfound quest to create the most awesome and unique Dragon deck in Gwent, since the dragons have been reworked with the Lineage mechanic.

Why is it so important to me to get the dragons deck just right?
My online name is DRK3, which might be indecipherable by now, but it was a transformation process.
DRK3 <- DR__K3 <- DR/\K3 <- Drake <- I love Dragons, and Drake is an actual English name and sounded so cool.
Also, dragons in the Witcher series are amazing, intelligent creatures and Geralt is wise enough to refuse to hunt them and be their ally, which made me love Geralt as a character even more, if that's even possible.

What is my plan?
I know ST seems to be the most well-suited faction for dragons, with 3 exclusive faction dragons, to increase the lineage value...
So i know for sure i will NOT be using ST, and my goal will be to prove other factions can pull them off just as well.
MO has Keltullis, which even has a destruction effect, but since allied Neutral dragons cant be ressurrected by Witches Sabbath, i lost interest in that possibility.
So, i know it will be one of the other 4 factions, and they all seem viable, although some with card setups that are unknown to most players. And i know i want to include all 4 neutral dragons, and maximize their value.
Yesterday, i started with Skellige...

How long will this stuff take?
I dont plan to make it a long-term commitment, ideally it will be finished until the end of the month, or at most until the next season / final card drop, at mid Setember.

DRAGON CHRONICLES - ENTRY #1

My first attempt, 1.0, was Patricidal Fury, with Cataclysm overload, through deranged corsairs and Ragnaroog, that way i tried that new neutral scenario as well, two birds one stone. I also had tempest with fog, for extra thinning and killing low units.
Why PF? Because it gives 4 extra enemy units, easy to kill with Ocvist or some other wide damage tool, for Saesenthessis: Blaze value.
It failed MISERABLY. At first, i thought killing tokens wasnt counting for S. Blaze, similar to how killing doomed tokens doesnt trigger funeral boats. But that is not the case, it was not counting because WEATHER kills dont count for Blaze, as its not technically during your turn.

This is absolute BS, and while the other 3 dragons are interesting, S. Blaze is incredibly expensive for its value. I saw some user comparing it to Morvudd, which is a similar card with the same provisions, but reliably gets great value and its incredibly hard to get more value from a S. Blaze than from a Morvudd.
This is also anti-synergy between dragons, because Ocvist spawns cataclysm, but if that effect kills any unit, it wont count for Blaze.

My second attempt, 1.1, used the same deck but with some changes. No more scenario, got rid of seagulls (they were there for CH2 clear skies value), got rid of deranged corsairs. Replaced fog with frost, because i dont want to kill any units with weather. Used Dagur to take advantage of tremendous amount of damage pings i had... Then burned a 27pt Dagur with Villentretenmerth
No, if you use dragons you cant go tall, other than the dragons itself. Or you would have to use "Villy" early, and only after its effect start using Dagur, GS and Ocvist, which doesnt seem reasonable, i want Villy to be the finisher.

The third form, 1.2, also addressed another issue - a 13pt Arnjolf, which can be easily be the Villy burn unless your opponent has huge units. So i included Knut, for some mindgames. I play Arnjolf and Villy, hopefully the opponent thinks i messed up and am about to destroy my unit so it doesnt counter neither villy nor Arnie, then last turn, BAM i reduce Arnie's value and burn enemy unit(s)!

Now, i havent tried it yet, but another alternative for SK would be self-wound, with massive svalblod triggers to hopefully destroy most enemy units and get S. Blaze value. Something to be tried soon...

 

[quintivarium]

Welcome to the...

DRAGON CHRONICLES - ENTRY #0

What are these 'Dragon Chronicles'?
Its my newfound quest to create the most awesome and unique Dragon deck in Gwent, since the dragons have been reworked with the Lineage mechanic.

Why is it so important to me to get the dragons deck just right?
My online name is DRK3, which might be indecipherable by now, but it was a transformation process.
DRK3 <- DR__K3 <- DR/\K3 <- Drake <- I love Dragons, and Drake is an actual English name and sounded so cool.
Also, dragons in the Witcher series are amazing, intelligent creatures and Geralt is wise enough to refuse to hunt them and be their ally, which made me love Geralt as a character even more, if that's even possible.

What is my plan?
I know ST seems to be the most well-suited faction for dragons, with 3 exclusive faction dragons, to increase the lineage value...
So i know for sure i will NOT be using ST, and my goal will be to prove other factions can pull them off just as well.
MO has Keltullis, which even has a destruction effect, but since allied Neutral dragons cant be ressurrected by Witches Sabbath, i lost interest in that possibility.
So, i know it will be one of the other 4 factions, and they all seem viable, although some with card setups that are unknown to most players. And i know i want to include all 4 neutral dragons, and maximize their value.
Yesterday, i started with Skellige...

How long will this stuff take?
I dont plan to make it a long-term commitment, ideally it will be finished until the end of the month, or at most until the next season / final card drop, at mid Setember.

DRAGON CHRONICLES - ENTRY #1

My first attempt, 1.0, was Patricidal Fury, with Cataclysm overload, through deranged corsairs and Ragnaroog, that way i tried that new neutral scenario as well, two birds one stone. I also had tempest with fog, for extra thinning and killing low units.
Why PF? Because it gives 4 extra enemy units, easy to kill with Ocvist or some other wide damage tool, for Saesenthessis: Blaze value.
It failed MISERABLY. At first, i thought killing tokens wasnt counting for S. Blaze, similar to how killing doomed tokens doesnt trigger funeral boats. But that is not the case, it was not counting because WEATHER kills dont count for Blaze, as its not technically during your turn.

This is absolute BS, and while the other 3 dragons are interesting, S. Blaze is incredibly expensive for its value. I saw some user comparing it to Morvudd, which is a similar card with the same provisions, but reliably gets great value and its incredibly hard to get more value from a S. Blaze than from a Morvudd.
This is also anti-synergy between dragons, because Ocvist spawns cataclysm, but if that effect kills any unit, it wont count for Blaze.

My second attempt, 1.1, used the same deck but with some changes. No more scenario, got rid of seagulls (they were there for CH2 clear skies value), got rid of deranged corsairs. Replaced fog with frost, because i dont want to kill any units with weather. Used Dagur to take advantage of tremendous amount of damage pings i had... Then burned a 27pt Dagur with Villentretenmerth
No, if you use dragons you cant go tall, other than the dragons itself. Or you would have to use "Villy" early, and only after its effect start using Dagur, GS and Ocvist, which doesnt seem reasonable, i want Villy to be the finisher.

The third form, 1.2, also addressed another issue - a 13pt Arnjolf, which can be easily be the Villy burn unless your opponent has huge units. So i included Knut, for some mindgames. I play Arnjolf and Villy, hopefully the opponent thinks i messed up and am about to destroy my unit so it doesnt counter neither villy nor Arnie, then last turn, BAM i reduce Arnie's value and burn enemy unit(s)!

Now, i havent tried it yet, but another alternative for SK would be self-wound, with massive svalblod triggers to hopefully destroy most enemy units and get S. Blaze value. Something to be tried soon...

I wish you luck with this. I gave up with dragons months ago. To my thinking, a competitive dragon deck must overcome numerous obsticles, including:

1. Provisions. A typical leader gives a total of 165 provisions for the deck. But at least 100 provisions are necessary to reach the 25 card deck requirement. That leaves 65 "free provisions". Including all four neutral dragons uses 33 of these -- there is very little space for added gold power.
2. Synergies. For the most part, (neutral) dragons do not strengthen other cards. There are slight synergies between Ocvist and row effect cards, but even here, there is awkwardness because different row effects don't interact well while other synergies typically encourage multiple row effects. Dragon damage can help cards like Greatswords and Dagur, but there are much cheaper ways to help these cards more. Thus, for synergies, one needs to look for cards that help dragons. And aside from Lineage (and Myrgtabrakke), the neutral dragons don't really help each other. Ocvist and Villentretenmerth tend to duplicate damage, and cataclysm randomness can prevent aligning Villentretenmerth targets. Damage might help proc Blaze, but it doesn't usually proc it much. Myrgtabrakke is the lone exception: both tutoring and damage pings (to set up Villentretenmerth) are useful. But even looking at cards helping dragons, aside from defenders to protect tall bodies (and other dragons for Lineage), nothing helps either Ocvist or Myrgtabrakke (excluding the weather cards with Ocvist, which I've already discussed. Villentretenmerth is helped by most damage ping cards, but Blaze wants help in the form of kills (which is generally much more than damage pings). I don't want to say it is impossible, but I do not see ways to get coherent synergies in a dragon deck.
3. Value. Normally, one would want an absolute minimal value of 15 for a 12 provision card, and 17 is probably a more realistic threshold. Without Lineage, only Vellentretenmerth and Ocvist meet this threshold -- and they take some correct alignment of enemy units and round length to do so. Myrgtabrakke needs to count either tutoring value, or value added to Villentretenmerth to come close (and this is double counting points), and, in my estimation, Blaze just won't meet this threshold unless an opponent plays some type of weak unit swarm and your deck centers around supporting Blaze. Thus, Lineage is important to dragon value. But assuming n represents the number of neutral dragons, f represents the number of faction dragons, and m is the number of Myrgtabrakke, the total Lineage points is given by (n+m)(n+f). Because this is quadratic in n, each neutral dragon dropped from the lineup is a significant loss of points. It is hard to remove a neutral dragon -- even if that dragon doesn't particularly fit the deck.
4. Consistency. Because of restricted free provisions, it is hard to include tutors (beyond Myrgtabrakke). Likewise, thinning (other than Saskia: Commander) is usually awkward to include. The result is usually a highly polarized deck with very limited consistency tools -- to me a recipe for disaster.
5. Strategic awkwardness. With a lot of points in very few cards, dragon decks struggle to distribute those points to win two rounds. Moreover Villentretenmerth and especially Ocvist have timers that are awkward -- they need medium to long rounds to get good value (the opponent needs cards on board to take damage/removal, and the timers need to go off). But nothing prevents an opponent from passing to prevent a round one trigger of the timer. And, with their high tempo, dragons usually want a short round three. Blaze needs to be played late in the match, and Myrgtabrakke wants to be played with Villentretenmerth.
6. Vulnerability. Dragons are generally vulnerable to tall punish, and, in the case of Villentretenmerth, other forms of control. There is no effective way to guard against this -- it is match-up dependent.

I can tend to be pessimistic in theoretical analysis like this. I hope you can prove me wrong, and share some good ideas with us.

 

[DRK3]

I wish you luck with this. I gave up with dragons months ago. To my thinking, a competitive dragon deck must overcome numerous obsticles, including:

1. Provisions. A typical leader gives a total of 165 provisions for the deck. But at least 100 provisions are necessary to reach the 25 card deck requirement. That leaves 65 "free provisions". Including all four neutral dragons uses 33 of these -- there is very little space for added gold power.
2. Synergies. For the most part, (neutral) dragons do not strengthen other cards. There are slight synergies between Ocvist and row effect cards, but even here, there is awkwardness because different row effects don't interact well while other synergies typically encourage multiple row effects. Dragon damage can help cards like Greatswords and Dagur, but there are much cheaper ways to help these cards more. Thus, for synergies, one needs to look for cards that help dragons. And aside from Lineage (and Myrgtabrakke), the neutral dragons don't really help each other. Ocvist and Villentretenmerth tend to duplicate damage, and cataclysm randomness can prevent aligning Villentretenmerth targets. Damage might help proc Blaze, but it doesn't usually proc it much. Myrgtabrakke is the lone exception: both tutoring and damage pings (to set up Villentretenmerth) are useful. But even looking at cards helping dragons, aside from defenders to protect tall bodies (and other dragons for Lineage), nothing helps either Ocvist or Myrgtabrakke (excluding the weather cards with Ocvist, which I've already discussed. Villentretenmerth is helped by most damage ping cards, but Blaze wants help in the form of kills (which is generally much more than damage pings). I don't want to say it is impossible, but I do not see ways to get coherent synergies in a dragon deck.
3. Value. Normally, one would want an absolute minimal value of 15 for a 12 provision card, and 17 is probably a more realistic threshold. Without Lineage, only Vellentretenmerth and Ocvist meet this threshold -- and they take some correct alignment of enemy units and round length to do so. Myrgtabrakke needs to count either tutoring value, or value added to Villentretenmerth to come close (and this is double counting points), and, in my estimation, Blaze just won't meet this threshold unless an opponent plays some type of weak unit swarm and your deck centers around supporting Blaze. Thus, Lineage is important to dragon value. But assuming n represents the number of neutral dragons, f represents the number of faction dragons, and m is the number of Myrgtabrakke, the total Lineage points is given by (n+m)(n+f). Because this is quadratic in n, each neutral dragon dropped from the lineup is a significant loss of points. It is hard to remove a neutral dragon -- even if that dragon doesn't particularly fit the deck.
4. Consistency. Because of restricted free provisions, it is hard to include tutors (beyond Myrgtabrakke). Likewise, thinning (other than Saskia: Commander) is usually awkward to include. The result is usually a highly polarized deck with very limited consistency tools -- to me a recipe for disaster.
5. Strategic awkwardness. With a lot of points in very few cards, dragon decks struggle to distribute those points to win two rounds. Moreover Villentretenmerth and especially Ocvist have timers that are awkward -- they need medium to long rounds to get good value (the opponent needs cards on board to take damage/removal, and the timers need to go off). But nothing prevents an opponent from passing to prevent a round one trigger of the timer. And, with their high tempo, dragons usually want a short round three. Blaze needs to be played late in the match, and Myrgtabrakke wants to be played with Villentretenmerth.
6. Vulnerability. Dragons are generally vulnerable to tall punish, and, in the case of Villentretenmerth, other forms of control. There is no effective way to guard against this -- it is match-up dependent.

I can tend to be pessimistic in theoretical analysis like this. I hope you can prove me wrong, and share some good ideas with us.

First of all, that is WAY too much math for August
Overall, i agree with the general feeling of your post - neutral dragons are overcosted and its quite hard to extract as much value from them as from other faction golds of similar provisions. But i always welcome the challenge.

I think in general, "Villy", "Myrg" and Ocvist work well with each other and can provide decent value, its S. Blaze that is the black sheep, and therefore the one i feel like i need to focus on, build the whole deck around to maximize it, and still the results probably wont be spectactular.

Regarding provisions - fortunately, this is 2023! There is no shortage of insane bronzes that give more value than golds of 2021 and prior, so im OK with a deck of basically those 4 expensive dragons and a bunch of bronzes. Oh, and for vulnerability i am using a defender to protect the dragons, which only leaves space for one more top gold.

For consistency, "Myrg" must be enough, then include as much cheap thinning or constency as possible (Maxii, Tempest, etc.)
And about strategic awkwardness, i never envisioned dragons were meant for a short round. Its in a long round that they shine, despite their big bodies.

A little side-story: one of the slaps on the face i got earlier this month was when i faced a dragon deck in a ranked match, and i was playing around old Villy's ability to minimize value lost, only to realize now he can burn multiple units and i lost like 40 points!
I was mad, but at the same time got more interested in the card, he became as impactful as he was on beta. And this shows again the incompetence of the dev team - Igni, Scorch and Regis all have initiative to prevent same turn setups for massive removal, but they forgot to add it to this reworked Golden Dragon

Anyway, it shows im still being surprised by some reworked cards... A new card stands out and i look into it, but there are many reworked cards in this 7 month period that i dont know about, even yesterday i realized Commander's Horn was changed, a week ago it was Gimpy and Falibor, and there have been many more.

Post automatically merged: Aug 22, 2023

DRAGON CHRONICLES - ENTRY #2

Yesterday i tried two new dragon decks.

Nilfgaard! We dont really see NG as a damage faction, despite being the most infamous control faction.

Basically, i used Sihil strategies - without Sihil because i hate all sword cards except HG Sword - and put many 1pt spies, which are very easy to kill compared to whatever units your opponent puts. And then i used Impera Enforcers as the central card, where i put one on the opponent's side with Operator, and by copying it with informants, not only am i getting more enforcers, im also giving charges to the existing ones, so the added value is more than linear.

You can do this for an entire round even without expensive golds like Braathens, Vigo or Coup. You have slave driver for more enforcers (although no charges are given) and experimental remedies to revive the informants you kill. I use Battle stations rather than Ramon, as putting two engines on one turn seems better than an added armored one with a longer setup.

Oh and also you dont need to eliminate the units if Ocvist is in play, its best to do as if you were setting up a Glustyworp and put everything to 1pt, and let Ocvist finish everything off. This way - on training with AI, for now - i got the best value for S. Blaze so far, at 27pts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The other deck i tried was Svalblod self-wound with dragons...

It was awful, because it didnt really focus on enemy removal, apart from the finisher. Also missing Svalblod was catastrophic.
It did provide enough value outside of dragons, but the Svalblod turn, with 4/5 shockwaves wasnt enough to give S. Blaze good value, the only deck that swarms enough in the current meta is elves, and you need last say, and Svalblod wins anyway in that situation, whether you have dragons or not, but S. Blaze will rarely even reach 12pt.
Not recommended.

 

[LeticiOrel]

The best results I've had with dragons so far were with dwarves. I know, ST, but... give it a try.

 

[DRK3]

I've finished the Summer Cycle, so now i can focus solely on experimenting with original decks for DotD thread or dragon decks for this one.
I am getting really fed up with the meta though (it was only a matter of time), so i dont see myself playing actively in the first half of setember, before the last card drop hits.

DRAGON CHRONICLES - ENTRY #3

I tried SY Dragons.
I was quite satisfied with the result, although for now i have only tried it in practice AI, which only serves to test consistency and get a good idea of the gameplan.

SY Control / removal, one immediately thinks of bounty. However, im trying a different bounty thing on another deck and felt like something different, something cheap in provisions.
I went for a classic move - Whoreson Sr., to transform two zealots into cutup lackeys, then spam a ton of crimes. The deck doesnt go tall so Villentretenmerth wont accidentally burn an allied unit whoreson Sr is the tallest at 6 + intimidate boosts.

The top end besides the 4 dragons is Hemmelfart, which is very reliable and synergistic with the deck, Whoreson Sr and Tunnel Drill, then a ton of crimes and cheap bronzes.
Oh, and Eyck! Cant believe i forgotten about him in the first few dragon decks i built, he is definitely an auto-include and always finds value. Its very rare i dont have a dragon in hand, since i try to save them for late R3.

With this deck i didnt get S. Blaze that far, only to 12-17, but number is very matchup-dependent.

Next time i will try ST dragons, then finish with NR dragons which i suspect will be the winner.

 

[DRK3]

I have two entries for today

DRAGON CHRONICLES - ENTRY #4

I followed @LeticiOrel 's advice and tried ST dragons. It was also dwarves... and it was amazing!
...
OK, i cheated.
It was Renfri handboost, with cheap dwarves for the lower end. And i only used 4 dragons, but rather than S. Blaze i used Saskia (the default, 11pversion). Incredibly easy-to-pilot deck (if you know how to maximize Torque + farseers value), and i tried to go for very early Renfri, to hopefully get cooldown 8 ability, or at least the odds/evens ability or the 4boost on round end ability.

That deck has aged better than most, and its very resistant to bleeding, most opponents try and end up failing miserably and losing a card, as the final cards are boosted to high heavens. The main issue is trying not to burn our units if Villentretenmerth is played so its effect happens on last turn, usually it would burn Torque, but i also have 2 locks that can lock allied units to prevent that.

I did test this deck against veterans and netdeck pro rankers and it still performed well.

This match was very intense, fueled by my passionate hate for Aerondight. As soon as R3 started i played high tempo to always be ahead, and forced an early Aerondight on giant Torque and Villen, but Ocvist and Eyck were not countered and i managed to win (i think last card was heatwave, maybe expecting an aglais or sheldon).

(PSEUDO) DRAGON CHRONICLES - ENTRY #5

OK, so i KNOW Tatterwing is not a dragon. But the poor thing probably wanted to be one, and it kinda looks the part...
Tatterwing was reworked for an intesting deckbuilding condition card and i only decided to give it a shot recently.
I have faced it many times as there was a MO list going around some weeks ago, with Madoc +bombs, Morvudd + Ozzrel, Vivienne: Oriole, sometimes Living Armor, you know - big pointslam cards that are not affected by Tatterwing's condition at all.

I HAD to do something different. So i went SY Tatterwing.
I didnt do any research, my picks are my own, but i've iterated several versions by now.

Version 1.0 was terrible, but worse than that, it was boring.
It was pirate cove, to be different, and for a good, safe combo with Damnation, a SY card i love and its still in the final version of the deck.
The problem was with pirate cove, i wasnt getting enough coins, Philippa and Cleaver were getting bad value.
And it was boring because it had vanilla Geralt and Living Armor, which are quite simple.

Version 1.1 saw a huge improvement, just had to change to Lined Pockets. Since Tatterwing is a card that affects units, its only logical to include many artefacts and/or specials, and go for the minimum of 13 units. And in SY, its likely those cheap specials will be crimes, so Lined Pockets is probably the best bet.
This version also saw the inclusion of Gord, which a long time ago, was more popular in SY than in ST, if you can believe that.

Version 1.2 is the final version.
The version i will share in a few hours, in the 'Deck of the Day' thread, with guide and screenies. Its awesome.

I noticed i was only using two repeated bronzes (EF disciple and eventide plunder, which are great 4p cards)...
Hmm, this could be a Shupe deck!
And included candle, which is very overused, but makes perfect sense in that deck: to setup damnation very easily and be heatwave bait that hopefully wont hit the other huge units it plays (besides Tatterwing, which is safe from Heatwaves ofc).

 

[DRK3]

DRAGON CHRONICLES - ENTRY #6 (FINAL)

The last faction i mixed with Dragons was NR.
This is the dragon deck i choose to share in the 'Deck of the Day' thread.
It was not the one with the best winrate but it was the one with most synergies between dragons and the chosen bronze package and that reliably gave the most value to S. Blaze.

I chose siege, which is more NR's meta of July than August (probably due to Demavend's nerf). Although either soldiers (Arbalests) or siege engines are able to do that you need to maximize dragon value, which is a lot of controlled pings to setup Ocvist and Villentretenmerth.

In this deck, i am not using Defender. Perhaps that is a mistake, but i would have to cut Eyck for it, and i already have so many heatwave baits, that the big boi dragons are more likely to stick... unless its against NG. (in that situation, scenario is definitely the most valuable asset, as they dont have heatwave as often).

I must admit - i didnt get the huge golden dragon "multi-burns" i was hoping for. Why? Because it either gets countered, or when it doesnt, i am usually winning by so much it doesnt matter and ive been able to destroy most of the opponent's board.

All the dragon decks ive talked about in this thread (except the Tatterwing one).
And no, im not german, i dont talk german, but german numbers sounded cool and i went with it


DRAGON SUMMARY:
-They are incredibly expensive, leaving little room for anything else costly.
-Of the 4 neutral dragons, only Ocvist has a deploy ability that gives points. Villen and Ocvist can both be worth it in value but always give 2 turns for your opponent to counter their big abilities, so they likely will never be competitive, where no top deck lacks control.
-And the black sheep is Saesenthessis Blaze, which is NEVER worth its provisions, and its there mostly to increase lineage due to lack of other options. If they wanted to keep the provisions, it would need at least a 4pt base power buff or an extra ability.

 

[StanislavOZZO]

Decent effort, mate.

I think the devs should add a few more dragons or dragonlings, whatever, to make this interesting archetype more successful

 

[DRK3]

Returned to Gwent around a month ago.
In August, something curious happened - i had both the best and worst ranked winrates ever in Gwent. In two different seasons.

In the first week, it was still July Season, and i had deranked all the way until 17, and it was quite easy to climb to pro rank virtually undefeated even with cycle decks, at that time all the tryharders were gone from the upper ranks which made things smoother. Ended with a winrate that would make even the best of pro players jealous (close to 80%), but of course most of those matches were done outside of pro rank, so the numbers arent representative.

Then the August season started... In the remainder of the month, quickly got to pro rank but since i was trying to finish the summer cycle, i lost so many times, and got to the winrate i have currently (127-150), lower than 50%, which even playing mostly meme decks i had never got before.

Im not playing rank anymore, and this new autumn cycle isnt driving me to do it either. Hate that cardback, its a rehash of the summer one, but im not a fan of the pink glow. So it will depend on the new cards to decide if i'll play ranked or not, whether its a fun meta or not...
What are your thoughts?

 

[DRK3]

Recently i decided to check the contracts tab.
Apart from ranked (i believe their tab is called 'seasonal') and journey contracts, i have completed most of them.

Still there are a few im missing, from the gameplay tab, and certainly no other veteran or pro player is missing too:

- 'destroy 1000 units with poison' - this is a clear indicator of my disdain for the poison mechanic, even so many years after it was introduced, half of the factions have access to it (NG, ST and SY) and have had metadecks involving poison at some point, and i still havent completed that. (When i do use it, its ST or SY, since it was NG that sparked my hatred for poison obviously)

- 'trigger sabbath 1000 times'- i am finishing this now, as i was close, already on the 900s. Still, this is probably a contract pros did in the first couple of months of the mechanic being introduced, as things tend to be overtuned on release and that's when they're most used. But also there arent many sabbath units, the only bronze that has it is witch apprentice, if self eater had it i would have done it ages ago.

-'deal damage with frost XXXX times' - im not sure on the required number, but im still way off, as ive never been a big fan of WH, although i dont dislike it per se.

-'spawn 1000 treants' - i dont like symbiosis, i never felt like there was room for much originality there.

-'spawn 1000 flaming rose footmen' - now this is BS. I love the firesworn archetype and SY and have posted many swarm decks with them. The problem of this contract is that requires spawning, transforming zealots into footmen doesnt count, which ive done countless times.
So there's actually only 3 ways of spawning footmen: playing Jacques (2nd or 3rd form) to spawn 2, or using Roderick de Wett order or playing smuggle crime for 1.

-'trigger conspiracy 1000 times' - this is the craziest one, the one probably most players are missing. There are only shit bronzes with the conspiracy tag, and they've been terrible since forever. The only decent conspiracy card is coup de grace, but that will only get you 2 each match, so i guess i havent played enslave 5/6 enough times, as i havent even reached the 500 mark...

Anyway, im doing these - i mean SOME of these - to tie up loose ends, since you know... the end is nigh.
Anyone else still paying attention to contracts?