Interface design for fantasy games. Medieval style or industrial minimalism?

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Interface design for fantasy games. Medieval style or industrial minimalism?

Design as known conveys certain mood and atmosphere. If you read some medieval book or even a manuscript with fancy initials, you get a different feeling than when you read a streamlined industrial manual.

In the early days of RPGs, it was quite customary to use medieval design for fantasy games, and industrial design for cyberpunk ones. It kind of makes sense. They convey the mood appropriately. Some examples which demonstrate the two:

Deus Ex:

Planescape: Torment:

You can clearly feel the difference. With modern games, you can also find similar trends. For example, take Pillars of Eternity which has a beautiful fantasy design:

(this image seems to be from a prototype or beta, but it's close to the final design stylistically).

On the other hand, some other games started using minimalistic design with industrial touch even for fantasy settings. Part of that I guess is driven by consolization trend, which pushes developers to simplicity (since controllers are more limited). So that's what we see in the Witcher 3:

It's surely minimalistic. I get an impression that simplification reduces certain feeling of the fantasy setting that the more expressive richer style provides. What do you personally prefer?

 

[GuyNwah]

People raised in different traditions are likely to take different views of what is suitable in the context of playing the game. When, for example, you're considering antique typefaces vs. modern, you drag in any number of cultural associations by using either. There are also ergonomic concerns; for example, the user interface of Planescape: Torment may be a marvel of "immersivity" to one player and a disaster of "clutter" to another; the Witcher 3 user interface may be a marvel of hierarchical design to one and a jarring intrusion of modernism to another.

The core market for all the Witcher games is Poland. So the question is best put to the Polish players first, and North American players have to take a back seat to their preferences. But since you asked for mine, I have to say:

Morrowind got it perfect (or would have, if it had grab and drag). Witcher 1 was cluttered, and Witcher 2 and 3 have gone too far toward modernism and over-careful design.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I surely agree that perception of interfaces is subjective as well as affected by cultural backgrounds. But I don't think in this case, evolution of Witcher games' interfaces is driven specifically by the Polish cultural reasons. TW1 was closer to classic fantasy interfaces, while TW2 and even more so TW3, are "modernized". The reasons are technical it seems, i.e. consoles limitations driving that evolution.

---------- Updated at 03:33 AM ----------

I agree about Morrowind - it's a good example.

---------- Updated at 03:40 AM ----------

Morrowind got it perfect (or would have, if it had grab and drag).

You mean moving windows?

 

[GuyNwah]

I surely agree that perception of interfaces is subjective as well as affected by cultural backgrounds. But I don't think in this case, evolution of Witcher games' interfaces is driven specifically by the Polish cultural reasons. TW1 was closer to classic fantasy interfaces, while TW2 and even more so TW3, are "modernized". The reasons are technical it seems, i.e. consoles limitations driving that evolution.

---------- Updated at 03:33 AM ----------

I agree about Morrowind - it's a good example.

---------- Updated at 03:40 AM ----------


You mean moving windows?

No, item selection. It's not click-drag-drop, it's click-release-move-click. Its gestures to manipulate windows are conventional and much better. And the way they used the Magic Cards font was genius.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

No, item selection. It's not click-drag-drop, it's click-release-move-click.

Ah, I think OpenMW implemented that feature. I didn't really test it much though, still waiting for them to do the optimization work.

 

[M4xw0lf]

I loved the TW1 interface. Somehow it perfectly matches the mood and style of the game. I'm definitely more inclined towards the more artistic interface designs, rather than the minimalistic industrial style.

 

[dragonbird]

I loved the TW1 interface. Somehow it perfectly matches the mood and style of the game. I'm definitely more inclined towards the more artistic interface designs, rather than the minimalistic industrial style.

I hated the TW1 interface. It may have looked nice, but it was a total PITA to use.
On the character screen, some of the icons were really difficult to tell if you'd already picked them or not because of the colours used.
On the inventory screen, there was that ridiculous scroll on the quest items, and unless you used a mod, you couldn't easily see what was in the alchemy ingredients.
On the HUD, if you were using the OTS camera, there was no way of selecting something unless you paused.
The equipment screen was the only one that worked.

On classic fantasy layouts, I can't remember much about them, but I liked Morrowind, DA:O.

 

[M4xw0lf]

I hated the TW1 interface. It may have looked nice, but it was a total PITA to use.
On the character screen, some of the icons were really difficult to tell if you'd already picked them or not because of the colours used.
On the inventory screen, there was that ridiculous scroll on the quest items, and unless you used a mod, you couldn't easily see what was in the alchemy ingredients.
On the HUD, if you were using the OTS camera, there was no way of selecting something unless you paused.
The equipment screen was the only one that worked.

On classic fantasy layouts, I can't remember much about them, but I liked Morrowind, DA:O.

Of course I was referring only to its visual style, not the usability

Oh, and another thing: in SciFi settings I actually prefer industrial style. It just has to fit the mood and atmosphere of the game's setting. Therefore: industrial in The Witcher: meh; in Deus Ex: yay.
TW3's interface doesn't quite strike the right chord for me.

 

[Sana_mia]

I personally don't care at all for colorful UI designs. So far witcher3 looks like one of the better designs in a long time.
However I'm still skeptical of the grid-based inventory, I just prefer something more like a sortable excel-sheat for my inventories in games.

My absolute favorite inventory/ui in the last years was a mod: SKYui, sortable, filters, search function. keyboard and mouse usable. Customizable text sizes and whatnot.

Witcher1 was cluttered, Witcher2 was really good after that one mod became a patch.
If I see something like planescape Torment these days my first reaction is to search for a mod that removes all the cluttered mess.

I don't need immersion in a UI, I need it to be so easy and fast to use that I don't see much of it anyway.

 

[dragonbird]

Of course I was referring only to its visual style, not the usability

Oh, and another thing: in SciFi settings I actually prefer industrial style. It just has to fit the mood and atmosphere of the game's setting. Therefore: industrial in The Witcher: meh; in Deus Ex: yay.
TW3's interface doesn't quite strike the right chord for me.

I think that the problem is where artistic styles trump usability. The problem on the character screen in TW1, in particular, was colour conflicts between unselected and selected abilities, which was due to an art choice.

Regarding the two shown, to be honest I'm no fan of either. The red-brown interface is a little cliched, and the black is too modern. Between the two, the dark one wins on usability.
And I know there was a big discussion about this a few months ago, but I prefer sans serif fonts on anything viewed on a monitor, even if it's more modern. Serif fonts work best on printed media.

 

[Riven-Twain]

I agree. The Witcher's UI was artistically far more attractive than Assassins of Kings' (although there were a few subtle details in that one) but Dragonbird is right, it was rather inefficient. Ideally, I prefer an interface which combines thematic artistry with functionality in equal measures. Morrowind was rather neutral, and unobtrusive, and lacked that extra touch. If it's a mediaeval-style game, a simple parchment, wood, stone, or leather theme can suffice.The first Diablo did it rather well, I thought. While I can see the argument for the UI purely as a mechanism to aid the player, and thus is not truly a part of the game-world, I don't really like the idea. A good interface can maintain the atmosphere of the game's setting, and keep us engaged within it. I was very disappointed by The Witcher 2, in this regard, and am not too thrilled at what I've seen for The Wild Hunt so far.

 

[Aes Sídhe]

But I don't think in this case, evolution of Witcher games' interfaces is driven specifically by the Polish cultural reasons.

I think Guy was saying that the best, most appropriate interpreter for a UI made by Poles, would be other Poles, if I'm wrong or even if I'm not, he'll probably tell us

Usability rules in the training & literature for UI's, so it's no surprise to see its techniques applied, from a design point of view. Presumably optimisation plays a part too. Do I miss those more unique efforts that required deciphering and added ambience, sure, but the modern stuffs good too. I know immersion gets bandied about a lot, but nevertheless its clear to me that a golden rule should be to minimise the number of "jarring" elements presented at the same time, find the lagrange point of form & function.

+1 Morrowind interface, even with the horrendously minuscule text.

 

[dragonbird]

I think that all the new one needs is a background image.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Or a small, simple, tasteful border with an artistic design. It could frame the UI without interfering with the main areas of function. . . .

 

[dragonbird]

OK, I'm as guilty on this as everyone else, but this thread seems to have turned into a TW3 thread. If people want to talk TW3, can you move it back to the OTHER thread:
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/35035-User-Interface-Comparison
and let Gilrond have his general discussion back?
Thanks.

(I've already moved one post, as it wasn't in response to previous posts.)

 

[Arvuti]

Since the first post mentioned Deus Ex, I would like to point out how good Human Revolution's user interface was.

Not only is it simple, easy to use and nice looking, it fits both the setting and overall art style of the game. It retains the feel of the deus ex 1 UI with the grid inventory, toolbelt and augmentation screen. Also they managed to make it work on consoles, without making the whole thing shit (*cough* Deus Ex: Invisible War *cough*)

 

[dragonbird]

Not only is it simple, easy to use and nice looking, it fits both the setting and overall art style of the game. It retains the feel of the deus ex 1 UI with the grid inventory, toolbelt and augmentation screen. Also they managed to make it work on consoles, without making the whole thing shit (*cough* Deus Ex: Invisible War *cough*)

Almost good, apart from the tetris inventory design, which had some really strange anomolies (like the massive size of a bottle of pills). Other than that, I agree, it was a nice UI.

 

[M4xw0lf]

Almost good, apart from the tetris inventory design, which had some really strange anomolies (like the massive size of a bottle of pills).

A balancing decision, since otherwise you could carry too many health items too easily.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I personally don't care at all for colorful UI designs....
I don't need immersion in a UI, I need it to be so easy and fast to use that I don't see much of it anyway.

When UI doesn't fit the settings, I view it as a flaw. Sure, functional aspect of the design is important, but it has to be balanced with presentation. If it's all function - it becomes too foreign and lacks seamless integration, if it lacks function too much, it becomes unusable.

And I know there was a big discussion about this a few months ago, but I prefer sans serif fonts on anything viewed on a monitor, even if it's more modern. Serif fonts work best on printed media.

There is some middle ground. For example Pillars of Eternity fonts aren't extremely decorated, but they aren't bland either for a fantasy game.

A good interface can maintain the atmosphere of the game's setting, and keep us engaged within it. I was very disappointed by The Witcher 2, in this regard, and am not too thrilled at what I've seen for The Wild Hunt so far.

That's what I think as well. From the recent games Pillars of Eternity struck a decent balance I think. Its UI is beautiful and looks like a painting, but on the other hand it's functional and isn't overwhelming.

Since the first post mentioned Deus Ex, I would like to point out how good Human Revolution's user interface was.
Not only is it simple, easy to use and nice looking, it fits both the setting and overall art style of the game. It retains the feel of the deus ex 1 UI with the grid inventory, toolbelt and augmentation screen. Also they managed to make it work on consoles, without making the whole thing shit (*cough* Deus Ex: Invisible War *cough*)

Sure, it naturally fits the cyberpunk settings. In this context, fantasy games have more challenge, since they need to present a UI that fits the mood, but which requires more work to make it usable. So I like when developers don't cut corners with fantasy games and work out a good balance.

 

[Lieste]

I hated the TW1 interface. It may have looked nice, but it was a total PITA to use.
On the character screen, some of the icons were really difficult to tell if you'd already picked them or not because of the colours used.
On the inventory screen, there was that ridiculous scroll on the quest items, and unless you used a mod, you couldn't easily see what was in the alchemy ingredients.
On the HUD, if you were using the OTS camera, there was no way of selecting something unless you paused.
The equipment screen was the only one that worked.

On classic fantasy layouts, I can't remember much about them, but I liked Morrowind, DA:O.

For the ingredients I routinely and regularly hit "sort ingredients", and they then sat in functional groups.