Tell me what gem of a game has a matching number of reviews with copies sold?
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Again a no point question - i just said 400k/13mil is not representative to claim the game „good“. Fact if u like it or not.
Unfortunately, on top of that the game is still waiting for the biggest update yet. I wouldn't be surprised if lots of people were waiting too.
Rest easy, cause they don't count CP2077 (and TW1/TW2/TW3) revenue as profit made by GOG, but by "RED". GOG revenue comes from selling other games. Not their own.
You can see here (page 8) that GOG didn't make any profit in Q1 2021 either. Which would be practically impossible with CP2077's initial sales.
Edit: Small correction: Cyberpunk's initial sales came in Q4 2020, GOG made a small profit back then, but it was still minuscule compared to that of "RED".
Link (page 20): https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2021/04/fy-2020-presentation.pdf
But my point still stands - GOG revenue comes from selling other games. Not their own.
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If you don't see what is wrong with using this number, there is no point in arguing with you. But you do you, keep thinking that you are the majority.
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i never said that im the majority - but well if u havent any logical argument left i take this with pleasure
To be fair I'm glad with how things turned out this year. It shows that the game has serious issues that need addressing before it starts generating genuine profits. It's not just vocal minority of unhappy customers. The game is missing something that prevents it from becoming an all out success. It sold incredibly well for what it was supposed to be, but it's not selling well for what it is. I think people do want more Cyberpunk, but not in its current state.
All I ever wanted was a well polished game, free of bugs. No matter what it ends up being. And it turned out borderline unplayable. For almost a year I've been screaming and banging and punching for the game to be fixed. If the sales were any good and overall sentiment positive, the company would move on. Fortunately for me, the bugs and overall quality of the game in its current state is not enought to bring more customers, so CDPR is working hard on getting the game up to standard. And yes, the game is pretty much officially below gamers standards if they are not willing to buy it.
I've been thinking about how CP2077 influenced the industry. And it could be a blessing in disguise for other companies. Lots of them decided to push back their own releases in order to make their own games better. As I said before, nobody wants to repeat what happened with Cyberpunk.
I just find it strange and sad that CDPR didn't realise that they are following the footsteps of Anthem.
All I ever wanted was a well polished game, free of bugs. No matter what it ends up being. And it turned out borderline unplayable. For almost a year I've been screaming and banging and punching for the game to be fixed. If the sales were any good and overall sentiment positive, the company would move on. Fortunately for me, the bugs and overall quality of the game in its current state is not enought to bring more customers, so CDPR is working hard on getting the game up to standard. And yes, the game is pretty much officially below gamers standards if they are not willing to buy it.
I've been thinking about how CP2077 influenced the industry. And it could be a blessing in disguise for other companies. Lots of them decided to push back their own releases in order to make their own games better. As I said before, nobody wants to repeat what happened with Cyberpunk.
I just find it strange and sad that CDPR didn't realise that they are following the footsteps of Anthem.
Source?
Because otherwise you are just plain wrong according to CDPR's own consolidated financial statement. GoG sales of CP2077 account for a little less than 10% of total sales. About 750K copies. Which is slightly higher than GoG's usual market share but still very much in-line with what one could expect. One can also safely assume Steam retained it's usual market share there too. Which is evaluated somewhere between 51% to 75%, it's peak in 2013(there is very little reliable information on this these days but numbers seem to indicate it is closer to it's peak of 75% in 2020). Even going with the low end this leaves us with around 3.7 million copies sold through Steam. the last 39% being sold through other platforms and physical copies.
The vast majority of digital sales were on Steam. There is no debating that. It's plain fact. It's also just plain fact that the vast majority does not leave reviews. With that in mind, 400K out of 3.7M is more than enough for any sampling method to draw reliable conclusions.
Plainly put, when you leave emotions and personal biases out of the equation, the game is well received on PC. Even more so these days after improvements.
Furthermore, if one assumes the same ratio of people who reviewed to people who bought the game, let's make it 10% for gorgeous round numbers, that leaves us with 270K sales on Steam alone within the last 30 days. A little over a quarter of a million on PC alone at the moment of this post. This bit is speculation but it seems plausible.
You also say that four years is nothing to CDPR. It's a lot. During those four years, they'll release at least one expansion. Most probably two. If those two expansions sell as well as the base game, that alone will earn them a few more years. If they do manage to turn public perception around, that'll also mean potential investments being more likely. Same goes for new games announcements. That's besides plenty of other things they can do during those fours years. Four years is a lot.
CDPR isn't in trouble and if patch 1.5/next-gen is as major as they make it sound neither is CP2077's future.
I am not willing to read through 90 pages of financial report from which I can't understand a thing.
I clearly remember CDPR saying that most of the sales on PC were on GOG, not on Steam. I'm talking the preorder sales, not post-release ones. But if I'm wrong then I'm wrong. If there is a pie chart somewhere, showing the proportions of sales of CP2077 in dfferent stores, I'd rather like to see that. My knowledge about finances doesn't go further than reading pie charts.
CDPR said that they are working on one major expansion at the moment. But they also said that they will release the Next-Gen Update and Patch 1.5 and then see what the reception of the game is. I wouldn't be so eager to say that the first major expansion and any further ones is not in danger of cancelation if the base game keeps underperforming.
The expansions never sell as well as the base game, no matter the game. They are optional things and some people either don't care or moved on and don't play it anymore. For example I never bought DOOM Eternal story expansions because I can't be bothered right now.
Expansions are also cheaper so the amount of income is lower per sale. Furthermore, as always with games having expansions, there will be people out there who will wait until the game releases all expansions in one package with the base game, and at lower than initial price. But that would happen way later down the line.
And also, as I said before, 4 years was not enough to release a successful product that CDPR was allegedly working on since 2013. Everything that happened up until release of Blood and Wine got scrapped and people behind the project left, but my point is: 4 years for CDPR to finish a big project is rush rush rush and crunch crunch crunch. Don't believe me? There is no crunch in CDPR right now because of protests and controversies. We are a year after release and the Next-Gen Update is pushed back to Q1 2022, originally planned for Q1 2021, and we still don't really know if they make it on time, as it's not set in stone, just their "aim".
I clearly remember CDPR saying that most of the sales on PC were on GOG, not on Steam. I'm talking the preorder sales, not post-release ones. But if I'm wrong then I'm wrong. If there is a pie chart somewhere, showing the proportions of sales of CP2077 in dfferent stores, I'd rather like to see that. My knowledge about finances doesn't go further than reading pie charts.
CDPR said that they are working on one major expansion at the moment. But they also said that they will release the Next-Gen Update and Patch 1.5 and then see what the reception of the game is. I wouldn't be so eager to say that the first major expansion and any further ones is not in danger of cancelation if the base game keeps underperforming.
The expansions never sell as well as the base game, no matter the game. They are optional things and some people either don't care or moved on and don't play it anymore. For example I never bought DOOM Eternal story expansions because I can't be bothered right now.
Expansions are also cheaper so the amount of income is lower per sale. Furthermore, as always with games having expansions, there will be people out there who will wait until the game releases all expansions in one package with the base game, and at lower than initial price. But that would happen way later down the line.
And also, as I said before, 4 years was not enough to release a successful product that CDPR was allegedly working on since 2013. Everything that happened up until release of Blood and Wine got scrapped and people behind the project left, but my point is: 4 years for CDPR to finish a big project is rush rush rush and crunch crunch crunch. Don't believe me? There is no crunch in CDPR right now because of protests and controversies. We are a year after release and the Next-Gen Update is pushed back to Q1 2022, originally planned for Q1 2021, and we still don't really know if they make it on time, as it's not set in stone, just their "aim".
What? Genuine profits?
90% of 13.7 is 12 330 000 copies. Let's forget 330K copies so we have a round number. I like gorgeous round numbers. 12M copies at 60$USD is 720M. Let's assume a flat 30% seller's cut across the board (I assure you, it's not that high) it still leaves us with 504M. CP2077 total budget was roughly 316M.
That leaves us with 188M in pure profit. Throw in GoG's 750K sales and you're adding another 45M. That assumes a 30% seller's cut which is just wrong. Even Steam goes down to 20% after 50$ million in sales. The true number in pure profit is probably much closer to 250M if not more than.
I'm not sure what your metric for "genuine" profit is but it seems heavily skewed.
I am not willing to read through 90 pages of financial report from which I can't understand a thing.
I clearly remember CDPR saying that most of the sales on PC were on GOG, not on Steam. I'm talking the preorder sales, not post-release ones. But if I'm wrong then I'm wrong. If there is a pie chart somewhere, showing the proportions of sales of CP2077 in dfferent stores, I'd rather like to see that. My knowledge about finances doesn't go further than reading pie charts.
Your knowledge of finances doesn't go further than reading pie charts but you're comfortable, and apparently confident, in saying the game's profits are not "genuine" (whatever that means) and generally spreading doom and gloom over numbers you admit to not understanding?
That seems fair.
A pie chart wouldn't change the facts. Straight from CDPR too.
Doubtful. It's a new IP that's objectively not performing as well as CDPR wanted it to. Cancelling it's future expansions would further hurt it. I'm interpreting their "let's see how 1.5 is received" statement more as a possible reduction in scope, not a total cancellation.
Time will tell obviously.
The expansions never sell as well as the base game, no matter the game. They are optional things and some people either don't care or moved on and don't play it anymore. For example I never bought DOOM Eternal story expansions because I can't be bothered right now.
Source?
Because if you don't have any, it's pure speculation. I buy every piece of DLC for games I like unless said DLC is clearly not worth the investment. This is anecdotal evidence at best.
Additionally, I didn't say the expansions will sell as much as the base game. I said they could. I'm basing my statement on the fact the game sold 13.7 million copies, that number we are certain of. When it was put back on the PS store, estimates were placing total copies at around 15M. Between all of this + sales in 2021 + sales that will be generated through the next gen update, I'm pretty confident CP2077 will have sold roughly 19-20M copies by the time it's first expansion rolls out.
13.7M out of 19-20M seems very plausible.
Yes, usually 50% cheaper than the base game. Times two, that would mean pretty much the same amount of money as the base game now wouldn't it?
See above about sales numbers.
TW1 was released in 2007. TW2 was released in 2011. TW3 was released in 2015. Eight years, two successful games.
Now, with the whole "four years isn't enough for CDPR" argument out of the way, I don't disagree with you that CDPR probably can't do it in four years while avoiding crunch. Very few studios can in fact, that's why crunch has become such a popular subject these days.
The reason they couldn't do it with CP2077 are probably numerous and we'll never have the real story behind it all. It's useless speculation, we're nearly a year after release, personally I don't see the point of speculating on that anymore.
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Are you... operating with pre-order numbers to prove me wrong about sales in 2021?
The genuine sales mean sales that have meaning in grand sheme of things. It's one thing to sell 13M of preorders. Another is to not make a million over entire 2021. We have no numbers for 2021 and CDPR doesn't want to talk about them either. My guess is as good as yours, unless you have them and are willing to share. You are amazing with financial reports, I bet you were able to crunch the numbers!
I'm sorry but you didn't disprove my argument about 4 years not being enough. First of all The Witcher 1 was released broken and only Enchanced edition was any good. Second, The Witcher 2 had lots of bugs and had it's entire inventory system rebuilt and only the Enchanced edition was any good. The game was not ready on release. Then there was The Witcher 3 in which the equipment menus had to be redesigned and the game had lots of initial issues that had to be resolved. So the game was also not ready at release. Only after Blood and Wine was released, the game was "complete and playable" to its full extend, a year later.
Now we have Cyberpunk, that is so broken that CDPR delayed the release of Next-Gen Update. It's a year later and the game is still in shambles.
Furthermore, Cyberpunk even after numerous patches still didn't deliver projected milestones, which means that potential customers are not willing to buy the game in current state. I think this one is pretty obvious. Are the sales amazing? Rather not. Do people want Cyberpunk? They seem to want it, 13M people preordered the game. Where is the issue then? Can you answer that question? Thankfully CDPR can and they are working on Patch 1.5 that is supposed to bring the game up to standard. As I said before.
"A pie chart wouldn't change the facts."-- but it would help present them in easy to understand way and maybe shut the mouths of people like me?
About buying expansions and DLCs-- are you... making fun of me? I mean, I admitted that I can't read financial reports but... I've never heard about a non-stand-alone expansion to the game that sold... more units that the base game. I don't think CDPR sold more Blood and Wine expansions than it sold The Witcher 3s.
It's not set in stone that we will get more than one big expansion, so it's your turn I guess to be accused for baseless speculations.
A very brief google search told me that estimated sales throughout the entirety of 2021 are somewhere around 4.2M copies. Not bad, actually. I think those were the numbers for one of Tomb Raider games at some point. But it seems not good enough for CDPR as they didn't want to share true numbers.
The genuine sales mean sales that have meaning in grand sheme of things. It's one thing to sell 13M of preorders. Another is to not make a million over entire 2021. We have no numbers for 2021 and CDPR doesn't want to talk about them either. My guess is as good as yours, unless you have them and are willing to share. You are amazing with financial reports, I bet you were able to crunch the numbers!
I'm sorry but you didn't disprove my argument about 4 years not being enough. First of all The Witcher 1 was released broken and only Enchanced edition was any good. Second, The Witcher 2 had lots of bugs and had it's entire inventory system rebuilt and only the Enchanced edition was any good. The game was not ready on release. Then there was The Witcher 3 in which the equipment menus had to be redesigned and the game had lots of initial issues that had to be resolved. So the game was also not ready at release. Only after Blood and Wine was released, the game was "complete and playable" to its full extend, a year later.
Now we have Cyberpunk, that is so broken that CDPR delayed the release of Next-Gen Update. It's a year later and the game is still in shambles.
Furthermore, Cyberpunk even after numerous patches still didn't deliver projected milestones, which means that potential customers are not willing to buy the game in current state. I think this one is pretty obvious. Are the sales amazing? Rather not. Do people want Cyberpunk? They seem to want it, 13M people preordered the game. Where is the issue then? Can you answer that question? Thankfully CDPR can and they are working on Patch 1.5 that is supposed to bring the game up to standard. As I said before.
"A pie chart wouldn't change the facts."-- but it would help present them in easy to understand way and maybe shut the mouths of people like me?
About buying expansions and DLCs-- are you... making fun of me? I mean, I admitted that I can't read financial reports but... I've never heard about a non-stand-alone expansion to the game that sold... more units that the base game. I don't think CDPR sold more Blood and Wine expansions than it sold The Witcher 3s.
It's not set in stone that we will get more than one big expansion, so it's your turn I guess to be accused for baseless speculations.
A very brief google search told me that estimated sales throughout the entirety of 2021 are somewhere around 4.2M copies. Not bad, actually. I think those were the numbers for one of Tomb Raider games at some point. But it seems not good enough for CDPR as they didn't want to share true numbers.
Are you... operating with pre-order numbers to prove me wrong about sales in 2021?
The genuine sales mean sales that have meaning in grand sheme of things. It's one thing to sell 13M of preorders. Another is to not make a million over entire 2021. We have no numbers for 2021 and CDPR doesn't want to talk about them either. My guess is as good as yours, unless you have them and are willing to share. You are amazing with financial reports, I bet you were able to crunch the numbers!
Actually, pre-orders were around 8M as of December 10th. The rest of the 13.7M figure was sales and include returns. That means 6.7 million in sales in December alone because that 13.7M sales figure is for 2020 alone. Not exactly a bad number.
If you're going to argue things as facts, then please, get those facts straight.
And please, explain to us how pre-orders have no meaning in the grand scheme of things? Is the money from pre-orders worth less?
"A pie chart wouldn't change the facts."-- but it would help present them in easy to understand way and maybe shut the mouths of people like me?
Or maybe you shouldn't speculate on things you admit to not understanding and refuse to even try to understand when provided with hard proof?
About buying expansions and DLCs-- are you... making fun of me? I mean, I admitted that I can't read financial reports but... I've never heard about a non-stand-alone expansion to the game that sold... more units that the base game. I don't think CDPR sold more Blood and Wine expansions than it sold The Witcher 3s.
Where did I say a game's expansion could sell more than the base game?
Nowhere. In fact, I said it could sell as many copies as the base game. Then I expanded on this by saying my estimation is that the base game will have sold 19-20M by the time the expansion rolls out and that selling 13.7 copies of the expansions seemed very plausible. How is 13.7 out of 19M more than the base game?
It's not set in stone that we will get more than one big expansion, so it's your turn I guess to be accused for baseless speculations.
It's not baseless. CDPR has already stated that we could expect the same as TW3 with CP2077. Is it set in stone? Absolutely not, nothing ever truly is in game's development.
I am not trying to prove you wrong about 2021 sales numbers. Neither of us have those but I have been following the game's success (and sometimes lack of success) very closely since release. I'm very confident in my 19-20M copies sold by the time the expansion rolls out, in fact, your own quick search points to it. To claim the game isn't at the very least a financial success is just plain wrong. So is to claim the game is in shambles, on PC anyway as I don't know the state of it on consoles. Is there plenty to fix/improve? Hell yes, but shambles? I can't agree and frankly that part is highly subjective - it's also why I'm not addressing the part of your post about TW1/TW2/TW3.
My 600+ hours says I've enjoyed the game. Worth the price of admission. Waiting on expansions now, oh and I also play on Steam.
" 400K out of 3.7M is more than enough for any sampling method to draw reliable conclusions."
Who deems what percentages are enough?
No social scientific argument was presented. Only personal opinions.
What about ps4 metacritic 3.7 score on 10000 ratings?
The score did not improve.
If we apply the same logic it shows bad news.
On PS Store game description says: "Purchase for use on PS4 systems is not recommended."
Can you show me another game description on PS store that says this?
One can cherry pick anything and show either bad news or good news.
EDIT: Y'know what, I have no interest in proving you wrong and continuing this. Everything you need is a quick Google search away.
I've personally had my fill of this, so I deleted my original answer and I'll let you do you.
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According to what was said in that investors call CDPRs financial state was healthy, so I reckon yes, apparently so.
Mind you I'm going off the info I recall from the other topic around here which was specifically about that call.
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What strikes me as odd often, is why is cyberpunk so nefariously known for it while theres a lot of other games which befall the same. Anthem (very grateful you named that!) and FO76 always come to mind in that comparison. And to a degree NMS should also be named. The latter recieved a killer comeback, for which praise, but lets not forget how that launched.
While I of ourse recognize the flaws and faults in CP77, it still is miles better than Anthem and FO76.
And while it hasn't received the NMS redemption many may have hoped for. I think CP77 still can have some aces up its sleeve. It just takes longer to properly redo its foundation.
I think CP77 is somewhere between NMS and FO76, but not nearly as far back into oblivion as Anthem.
And while CDPR (staff) may have realized very late that they were excavating their own grave, they are not too late yet I think.
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OK, here's why I'm comparing Anthem to Cyberpunk: the "reveal trailer" had nothing to do with the final version of the game. You know the one: in the train/metro. Same with Anthem. The trailer was showing things that were not even in the game. So that's one. Good first impression is very important-- everybody will tell you that. Both reveal trailers made everybody very excited.
Why I'm comparing Cyberpunk to Fallout 76: because of 15 times the detail! Cyberpunk was supposed to be magnum opus of CDPR. Fallout 76 was supposed to be everything that Bethesda learned from Fallout 4. Both games were supposed to be oh so good! And both are incredibly buggy to this day.
Why I'm comparing Cyberpunk to No Man's Sky: because of all the great interviews both games had before release and how in both cases the spokepersons really didn't want to straight out admit that something is not as great as we'd like to believe. And then it turned out that a lot of mechanics and systems in the game are there... as a token. Just enough to be able to say "yes, this thing is indeed in the game" but that's as far as it goes. It's like saying that in the game you will be able to chose multiple different haircuts. And giving you two. Is it multiple? Well, technically speaking it's more than one, so technically speaking "multiple" is not untrue.
So yeah. Issues of three games condensed into one.
In addition: all I ever wanted was a game without bugs.
The original release was supposed to happen in April 2020, if I recall correctly? And then the game was being pushed back across the entire year, and always the reason was "we are testing the game". "We are fixing bugs, so the game will be the best it can be". Every time I've heard that, I'd say: "GOOD, I want the game to be buggless too!". An entire year of convincing me that they are fixing and polishing the game. An entire year. And you know what? I believed them. So imagine my disappointment.
Why I'm comparing Cyberpunk to Fallout 76: because of 15 times the detail!
Cyberpunk was supposed to be magnum opus of CDPR. Fallout 76 was supposed to be everything that Bethesda learned from Fallout 4. Both games were supposed to be oh so good! And both are incredibly buggy to this day.Why I'm comparing Cyberpunk to No Man's Sky: because of all the great interviews both games had before release and how in both cases the spokepersons really didn't want to straight out admit that something is not as great as we'd like to believe. And then it turned out that a lot of mechanics and systems in the game are there... as a token. Just enough to be able to say "yes, this thing is indeed in the game" but that's as far as it goes. It's like saying that in the game you will be able to chose multiple different haircuts. And giving you two. Is it multiple? Well, technically speaking it's more than one, so technically speaking "multiple" is not untrue.
So yeah. Issues of three games condensed into one.
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In addition: all I ever wanted was a game without bugs.
The original release was supposed to happen in April 2020, if I recall correctly? And then the game was being pushed back across the entire year, and always the reason was "we are testing the game". "We are fixing bugs, so the game will be the best it can be". Every time I've heard that, I'd say: "GOOD, I want the game to be buggless too!". An entire year of convincing me that they are fixing and polishing the game. An entire year. And you know what? I believed them. So imagine my disappointment.
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FTFY.Fallout 76: because of 16 times the detail!
Dont get me wrong though, I agree with what you say. cyberpunk indeed has problems that plagued the other games.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that Cyberpunk also holds the good elements from many of those games (bar Anthem, there was nothing noteworthy there).
I'm not sure how else I might explain myself better, so I hope this will do for now
Glad those people were able to play the game and not get hard locked, will keep my negative review until the game is actually a game and enjoyable. When im able to play the game normally and not do a specific set of steps to make sure something doesnt bug out then i might go positive. Crazy how anyone can enjoy this mess of a game thats not even complete or working.
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