Gunplay lacks recoil!

[Witchercyberpunk]

While watching the latest demo, I thought it was odd how the turret ripped from the mount, barely had any recoil. Around 8 minutes in, a compilation of short clips shows a shotgun blasting an enemy to pieces, and its power wasn't reflected in it's recoil as well. Maybe it just me, but I feel like all the guns need a tad bit more punch. What do you guys think?

 

[BluPixel]

Like someone previously said here, it's possible the lack of recoil is tied to your prosthetics/strength build. Since the weapons were fired by a strong solo, it might be easier for her to handle heavy guns? At least I hope that's the reason

 

[Ambergeddon]

My guess is that V was negating the recoil in someway either due to having recoil dampening from her arms or the related weapon skill reduces it. I'm hoping for the former myself because skills reducing doesn't really make much sense.

I can't imagine they'd just forget the recoil, I remember the weapons having more kick in the 2018 video too so I'm going to guess it's the arms V has.

 

[Sardukhar]

I think it's definitely missing in places, but work in progress.

Also players would hate realistic recoil - it destroys accuracy for anything not slow semi auto. Generally why VG make it weak or non.

Hoping it's pretty stiff for heavier weapons though.

 

[CyberBrett]

Basically i agree with BluPixel and Ambergeddon . This is not an early build , as the narrator says in the vid " it takes place in the middle of the game " .

 

[Suhiira]

With the current bullet sponge opponents fast semi-auto or full-auto combat is required so you can't have anything approaching realistic recoil because you'd never be able to hit things multiple times in a single burst.

 

[Garrison72]

I think it's definitely missing in places, but work in progress.

Also players would hate realistic recoil - it destroys accuracy for anything not slow semi auto. Generally why VG make it weak or non.

Hoping it's pretty stiff for heavier weapons though.

I think this as well, WIP. But animations and recoil sure help in giving the impression your weapon has power, so they need to dial this in right. Decreasing recoil ( not eliminating it) and increasing accuracy could easily be a skill in the skill tree. Other games have done this just fine.

 

[fr33kSh0w2012]

Deleted

 

[kirell]

A bullet blast in the head should be lethal, Unless upgrades are in your skull!

I would also imagine that years of development in ballistic masks and helmets could also allow non augmented enemies to take headshots. Especially if they find a good way to remove the impact stress on the neck by attaching it to body armor: Ff you just add an extra strong helmet to withstand high cal bullets, they would not penetrate but still break the neck - impact must be spread preferably to body. Could imagine links to body plate that harden/lock just before impact to achieve that.

Completely unarmored heads (no cyberware AND no external head armor) should be lethal, or rather take them out of the action (cause you can actually survive even skull penetrating headshots if the bullets are missing the brain stem & "only" penetrate one hemisphere/one lobe).

 

[OneWingedHawk]

The militech auto pistol that they showed last year and the revolver this year looked like it had decent recoil to them. I also think those are the only two weapons that i felt that looked most satisfying. And even though i think the LMG that V uses against Sasquatch looks good enough it needs a bit more power behind it and in general i feel the same for all the mid-large weapons, there are instances where you can see the weapon animations looking really good but the kickback or sound is holding these weapons back from looking their best.

 

[Nithing]

I addition to any cyberware V has, recoil might also have been purposefully reduced for the sake of a fluid demo. I expect V is also unkillable/has very high health and probably can't run out of ammo, for the same reason. In an interview at E3 2018 it's stated that the 48 minute demo was played by a former pro Counter Strike player, which - like reducing recoil - goes towards a better viewing experience, but probably doesn't quite represent how gameplay would be if played by you or me, though I don't know if that was the case this year.

 

[InsomniumX]

Dont know why people expect recoil here. Apart from some likely implants you would have in your hands for increasing stability and stuff, the guns themselves would be far more advanced at the time and thus made with greatly reduced recoil; they wouldnt be twitching like you were wielding a jackhammer.

 

[kirell]

The female V using those weapons in the demo had extreme body stat (9, just 1 point below max, 3 is normal). In addition she had the gorilla grip arm replacements which can force open metal doors, even bending metal doing so. Also likely maxed out weapon stat. All of these factors could add better recoil compensation and control...

 

[Suhiira]

Dont know why people expect recoil here. Apart from some likely implants you would have in your hands for increasing stability and stuff, the guns themselves would be far more advanced at the time and thus made with greatly reduced recoil; they wouldnt be twitching like you were wielding a jackhammer.

The laws of physics don't change. So unless your weapon has some sort of recoil compensator (as seen on most artillery pieces) even with implants there's still recoil.
But I don't expect it to be much of an issue, after all CP2077 is video game not the relatively realistic simulator CP2020 is.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Stats should affect recoil along with general accuracy a great deal, lest the stats are effectively rendered meaningless (which is the case in many shooters that have stats to govern shooting).

CDPR has said there are some effects, but I fear they don’t have the courage to implement those effects in a tangible enough way that it actually affects gameplay.

It could be somewhat easily done, if the effects were tied to difficulty settings (instead of increasing enemy HP and done damage). The more difficult the setting, the harder it is to score hits consistently and handle the weapons.

I would guess that’d be easier to balance too than adjusting HP values for every enemy type.

But I don’t expect difficulties to work that way. It’s just... something I’ve been thinking over the years here with how to make combat feel a bit more like an RPG.

 

[Snowflakez]

I think this as well, WIP. But animations and recoil sure help in giving the impression your weapon has power, so they need to dial this in right. Decreasing recoil ( not eliminating it) and increasing accuracy could easily be a skill in the skill tree. Other games have done this just fine.

How do we know this is not the case? Perhaps FemV is experienced enough in combat that the recoil for the guns is reduced. The build was from the middle of the game, after all.

 

[Garrison72]

How do we know this is not the case? Perhaps FemV is experienced enough in combat that the recoil for the guns is reduced. The build was from the middle of the game, after all.

Then I would say they've reduced it too much and that's a poor aesthetic decision. The guns still need to animate right so they reflect their power. They could minimally reduce recoil but greatly increase accuracy for instance. Of course we're judging from mere seconds of gameplay so it's hard to tell.

 

[Sardukhar]

Also it's very very hard to reduce recoil. Instead you learn to time your shots into the gap and to ride the recoil more adroitly.

It's less about strength ( even fast twitch muscle fibres can't keep up in time with what it takes to send even a tiny projectile out at a thousand meters/second) and more about technique.

Mass of course helps, but anyone who has secured a rifle or even pistol to a platform knows just how much mass you need to beat recoil completely.

 

[Snowflakez]

Also it's very very hard to reduce recoil. Instead you learn to time your shots into the gap and to ride the recoil more adroitly.

It's less about strength ( even fast twitch muscle fibres can't keep up in time with what it takes to send even a tiny projectile out at a thousand meters/second) and more about technique.

Mass of course helps, but anyone who has secured a rifle or even pistol to a platform knows just how much mass you need to beat recoil completely.

I didn't necesssarily mean strength, but since FemV was the "combat solo," (at least from what I gathered), perhaps her weapon skills (i.e. technique) were better. Possibly.

I'd hate for them to toss that system out (the progressively getting better with guns thing) just because some people are complaining about the aesthetics, but I have to admit the feedback is still too weak.

One solution is to up the actual animation feedback, but without significantly altering the recoil from what it should be based on weapon skills.

 

[Tangsta]

This has already been discussed in the Guns thread, but I honestly think gun recoil in a video game is grossly overrated and would only suit simulation type games. Force-feedback/vibration for each weapon is a much better option for "impact".