Improve Adam Smasher Fight Without Bullet Sponging it!

[LeKill3rFou]

notice; I deplore the saber combat mode; the combos are almost nonexistent.

Little off-topic :
Strangly for me, I quite like that. Not because it's really good, obviously it could be better
But because when I first launched the game, I had no idea it would be possible. It was a nice surprise during training with T-Bug. And even then, I wasn't really disappointed because honestly I would have thought it would have been a lot worse than it is.

 

[Liquidcyberpunk]

to be brief; in hard mode Sandayu Oda is a tough opponent. cunning and particularly offensive warrior.
I {wrongly} thought the end boss will be worse. in fact; Smasher is a lamb compared to Sandayu Oda-san.

I agree. Oda was fun to fight. I still would love to know what a boss fight would be like with an AI or a netrunner. Perhaps DLC will show us?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Perhaps the most heard V's dialogue line in the game, especially if you play in very hard, if you "rush" Goro's main quest and come up against Oda at low level and not really well prepared :
"Course you're here !"

 

[alphamachina]

IMPORTANT in case it is not obvious you may pick as many of the answers in the poll as you agree with unlike how polls usually are. Changing your vote is allowed as well.

Some people (I think I agree ) feel Adam Smasher left much to be desired for a a boss battle.

I am not saying to use any or all of the above just demonstrating that there are many other ways other than the hated Bullet Sponge!

What ideas would you suggest?

Good luck with that. I don't think they'll ever improve the game to any significant level like this. Adam Badowski said himself that they're happy with where the core game is at content wise, and are only working on bug fixes and future DLC releases.

 

[SpookyFX]

Good luck with that. I don't think they'll ever improve the game to any significant level like this. Adam Badowski said himself that they're happy with where the core game is at content wise, and are only working on bug fixes and future DLC releases.

I mean I did say

"I am not saying to use any or all of the above just demonstrating that there are many other ways other than the hated Bullet Sponge"

Who knows maybe some young up and coming game programmer will see this and keep it in mind in the future right?

I am a little shocked that most people (per the poll) are going for the knock your butt around features more than the others, years ago players seem to hate when I did that in my Combat mods. Maybe it is because Adam Smasher gives off the "war horse" vibes more than anything else.

 

[BigWezz69]

The fight with AS can be improved in the same manner as every other fight in the game, buy adjusting the AI, to make them smarter.

In the words of the Internet Historian, the AI in this game is; "more A than I".

 

[eladrius]

The problems with the boss fight with Adam Smasher are, in my opinion, two fold. The first is that the combat AI, and the Ai in general, needs to be improved, and the second is the loot system with everything increasing in power every level. If the only increase in equipment power was quality and not level and quality then this fight and combat in general might play out different. But the general AI topic and Looter Shooter mechanics are for different threads and not this one.

 

[SpookyFX]

So as of the new patch 1.23 they "improved" the Adam Smasher fight:

"Adam Smasher will no longer receive damage during animations between his attack phases."

Well I guess the silver lining is that they proved that they are willing to change those (mechanics and gameplay) parts of the game, thus threads like this one may have some purpose other than just venting.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Well I guess the silver lining is that they proved that they are willing to change that (and similar gameplay) parts of the game, thus threads like this one may have some purpose other than just venting.

it would have been insane to believe that CDPR was going to change everything for Adam Smasher, but for me, I think it is a step in the right direction

 

[BigWezz69]

So as of the new patch 1.23 they "improved" the Adam Smasher fight:

"Adam Smasher will no longer receive damage during animations between his attack phases."

Well I guess the silver lining is that they proved that they are willing to change those (mechanics and gameplay) parts of the game, thus threads like this one may have some purpose other than just venting.

So they kind of made him more spongy by giving him Invincibility frames? Lol wut ..

 

[DefaultDanielS]

They should just make him a Dark Souls tier boss with extreme mechanics, at this point for a character with so many body modifications as he has I am expecting him to be unbeatable for a few months, imagine then how many people will talk about the game and work on beating him

 

[LeKill3rFou]

They should just make him a Dark Souls tier boss with extreme mechanics, at this point for a character with so many body modifications as he has I am expecting him to be unbeatable for a few months, imagine then how many people will talk about the game and work on beating him

In very hard, yes
But in "lower" difficulties, nope... I think, for many players, if he is too hard to defeat could be ennoying (or even worst).

 

[DefaultDanielS]

In very hard, yes
But in "lower" difficulties, nope... I think, for many players, if he is too hard to defeat could be ennoying (or even worst).

it should be like in wow , if the difficulty is harder the bosses get extra mechanics

 

[AlienLichLord]

I agree. Oda was fun to fight. I still would love to know what a boss fight would be like with an AI or a netrunner. Perhaps DLC will show us?

I'd assume it would be both a wave based combat arena, with environmental/hacking puzzles.

 

[terseval]

Many good ideas here, but what's your problem guys with AS having more HP? He's literally a bi-pedal tank with rocket launcher and heavy machine gun, many years of combat experience, top-tier cyberware. I kinda liked how he was depicted in Edgerunners - David in cyberskeleton and full cyberpsycho mode on barley did any damage to Smasher. And then here goes V, first among suckers, who can disintegrate AS with some gorilla arms and XXL Burrito in a backpack.

IMO on the hardest difficulty Smasher should be much tougher than he is now, with additional mechanics. Same goes for any boss fight, but Smasher especially.

Homing missiles can be more "homing", he can use some explosive ammo ( like O'Five sniper rifle). Also there were good ideas about shield, but I'm thinking about something more like energy field. Like, if you're too far away from him, you can't do substantial damage and/or he regenerate health if you break the line of sight with him for more than certain time. When AS is damaged enough and burning, you should receive fire damage in vicinity of him. His melee attacks should be more punishing, stun you or some other sort of short disable, just enough for you to get another punch in the face. Enrage mode would be fun too, i guess. For example, if you damage enough his limbs, or drop his HP to a certain point/evade his attacks long enough he becomes completely mad, 'cause "wtf flesh is weak" and all that stuff.

Also I think V's melee weapons need to be much less effective against him. Like, c'mon, what are you trying to do with your sharp/dull stick against this big piece of metal?

 

[Plantfoodclock]

I'm not entirely against bullet sponge Adam Smasher, but I do agree on some additional gameplay mechanics to make him more fun to fight against.

But honestly, the one thing I'd want is to feel like I'm in a desparate situation when fighting him. Like this guy is top-tier shit and I should still be a relative rookie against him. I should be competent enough to stand against him, but I shouldn't feel like I'm equal to his abilities and experience. Like, maybe give the player the advantage of being able to outsmart him but don't make the player feel that they could beat him in a one on one fight, regardless of the cyberware, weapons, or quickhacks at their arsenal. Make them feel like they were able to get a one up on AS with some clever thinking or even pure luck. Plus, just running around the arena and shooting AS isn't much fun.

That's why I think some more environmental damage might be good. Environmental damage doesn't have to gate AS from dying or losing health, but it should be a larger part of the fight. Give me a chance to let the ceiling fall on him, have unstable "Cyberpunk-magic" energy batteries to explode, and whatever else Arasaka tower could have to hurt the guy. Don't make it something as basic as having AS charge into one like some Looney Tunes character, but make the player have to carefully lure him into place to damage him. Makes it feel more rewarding that way too. Hell, make it feel like our fight is leading straight into Mikoshi, like we are trying our best to get closer and closer to our goal but at the same time feel like AS is cornering us into the depths of Arasaka.

And even more, don't let me kill the guy. Let me barely get away alive and still feel like AS is a threat and on my tail while I try to get to Alt. Don't let AS just be this one dimensional boring big bad guy boss that I, a nobody, finish off: let me feel like he's an actual rival and I've become one of his. Legend against Legend. Cybernetic meat against pure machine metal. Make me feel like I've become somebody but still have a lot to go, whether it's to become something like AS himself or more like Morgan Blackhand/JS/Rogue, etc. Make me question whether if I have what it takes to become truly a legend, or even if I want to be someone like that (which could tie very well with the Nomad ending: leaving NC to find another solution or to live out my days as a nobody with family).

A good boss battle is ultimately 1) fun to fight, 2) atmospheric, and 3) thematic with story. If we want a better fight, we need to be focusing beyond the first point.

 

[SpookyFX]

I'm not entirely against bullet sponge Adam Smasher, but I do agree on some additional gameplay mechanics to make him more fun to fight against.

But honestly, the one thing I'd want is to feel like I'm in a desparate situation when fighting him. Like this guy is top-tier shit and I should still be a relative rookie against him. I should be competent enough to stand against him, but I shouldn't feel like I'm equal to his abilities and experience. Like, maybe give the player the advantage of being able to outsmart him but don't make the player feel that they could beat him in a one on one fight, regardless of the cyberware, weapons, or quickhacks at their arsenal. Make them feel like they were able to get a one up on AS with some clever thinking or even pure luck. Plus, just running around the arena and shooting AS isn't much fun.

That's why I think some more environmental damage might be good. Environmental damage doesn't have to gate AS from dying or losing health, but it should be a larger part of the fight. Give me a chance to let the ceiling fall on him, have unstable "Cyberpunk-magic" energy batteries to explode, and whatever else Arasaka tower could have to hurt the guy. Don't make it something as basic as having AS charge into one like some Looney Tunes character, but make the player have to carefully lure him into place to damage him. Makes it feel more rewarding that way too. Hell, make it feel like our fight is leading straight into Mikoshi, like we are trying our best to get closer and closer to our goal but at the same time feel like AS is cornering us into the depths of Arasaka.

And even more, don't let me kill the guy. Let me barely get away alive and still feel like AS is a threat and on my tail while I try to get to Alt. Don't let AS just be this one dimensional boring big bad guy boss that I, a nobody, finish off: let me feel like he's an actual rival and I've become one of his. Legend against Legend. Cybernetic meat against pure machine metal. Make me feel like I've become somebody but still have a lot to go, whether it's to become something like AS himself or more like Morgan Blackhand/JS/Rogue, etc. Make me question whether if I have what it takes to become truly a legend, or even if I want to be someone like that (which could tie very well with the Nomad ending: leaving NC to find another solution or to live out my days as a nobody with family).

A good boss battle is ultimately 1) fun to fight, 2) atmospheric, and 3) thematic with story. If we want a better fight, we need to be focusing beyond the first point.

I still say no Bullet Sponge (BS is not the same thing as just having a high HP that matches the body of the opponent) but I agree with the rest of your thoughts. I made a combat mod for Skyrim that included a new game mechanic I invented that I called "combat opportunities". Throughout the fight you were periodically notified that an opportunity appeared in the fight to do extra damage or effects IF you jump on and succeeded at the opportunity.

For example, you might suddenly see the message that if you successfully hit the right leg within a 4 seconds your opponent would trip to the ground thus allowing you a few free shots on them as they regain their combat stance.

 

[Plantfoodclock]

I still say no Bullet Sponge (BS is not the same thing as just having a high HP that matches the body of the opponent) but I agree with the rest of your thoughts. I made a combat mod for Skyrim that included what I called "combat opportunities". Thought the fight you were periodically notified that an opportunity appeared in the fight to do extra damage or effects IF you jump on and succeeded at the opportunity.

For example, you might suddenly see the message that if you successfully hit the right leg within a 4 seconds your opponent would trip to the ground thus allowing you a few free shots on them as they regain their combat stance.

That is an amazing complementary way of damaging AS beyond environmental damage. It'd be nice if it was tied to a skill too, like perception: more perception giving you more opps for extra damage, but definitely not necessary. I just want the player taking a more active role than just run and shoot in terms of fun gameplay. I think this way of damage also complements a feeling of just barely getting a one up on AS top, adding to the atmospheric feeling of the fight.

I'm surprised that your combat mod hasn't been talked about much in the Skyrim modding scene (or maybe it has. I've left that scene a long time ago). Then again skyrims combat is very boring and easy, so maybe it just doesn't have a strong enough base for something complicated like that.