Is this game an rpg?

[ElsonsoJannus]

Sorry, but no. There are dozens of far more complex RPGs than Skyrim or Cyberpunk that are not defined by level of interactivity with the world. What you're describing is Bethesda's style of OW RPG, which Cyberpunk is clearly not. It's not focused on exploration and intercepting random NPC to interrogate them about their jobs and families, but on story, characters, dialogues and quests.

Going back to the list that I originally quoted, I let some stuff slide, so let me fill this in...

• Story (Branching story lines and different endings are hallmarks of a good interactive story. A story can actually be a contra-indicator of an RPG for a computer game. We are not architects of the story, we are consumers of the story. The more this is true, the less of an RPG it is. As an action adventure story game, CP is better than anything that comes out of Bethesda. As an RPG game, about the same.)
• Character customization (A vague statement. When gamers talk about this, they often talk of options when creating the body of the character. This is relevant only to the visual aspect of the character. Immersion, if you will. This is important for an CRPG, but it is practically meaningless for an RPG, as it is ubiquitous. The stuff that matters, namely the building of skill, capability, and things that define the character, is present in CP. This is very limited. We get to pick attributes and perks, choose outfits, and pick cyberware. This is pretty limited for an RPG, but it is what we get when a computer game calls itself an RPG)
• Open world (This is a requirement for any RPG game, but only if the intent is to stick around. An RPG game can certainly exist that is not open world, but players don't spend lots of time there. If they do, the world has to be interactive, which was the point of my original reply. CP is a game where players are not expected to stick around, but it acts like the developers originally wanted it to be. What we got was an action adventure story game that was originally intended to be an RPG game.)
• Choosing your path (CP does this, but only as part of the story game. There is no RPG choice in this game, outside of the CDPR story. When was the last time V joined Militech as a merc, joined a gang, or became a medic for Trauma Team? V cannot because the path is that V follows the story to one of the endings, and none of the endings do that. By the time I can join some Nomad clan, or one of the supported endings, I am at the end, so who cares? "V's story is done, please be sure to stop by the gift shop on your way out, and thanks for playing! Have a nice day. Please exit the theater
  
  to the right so the next group can enter.")
• Variety of combat styles (Nothing to do with an RPG game)

With that aside, the Skyrim comparison is part of the the thread and it seems that CP is going to get compared endlessly to Bethesda games. Skyrim is very linear. Fallout 4 is less linear. Both are open world with endlessly respawning areas and repeating quests. Both have better support for end-game than what CDPR does.

This is not to say that Skyrim and Fallout 4 are the models by which all games should be measured.

Skyrim is a spread out area set in a time with few locks. Night city is a big city. Walk around a city and see how much you can open. I guarantee you Night city has Waaaaay more open doors than Skyrim. An actual unrealistic amount of openable doors. And yeah, developers close doors to guide players away from non existent content. But you are implying its better to have a smaller less realistic city, with less room for growth, just so players don't feel annoyed there's doors they can't open. I mean they could have made night city with the same amount of doors as skyrim, and cut the city to 1/3? the size and had them all open, but thats not really a better experience imo.

Night City is a denser world, and yes, there are probably more unlocked doors. However, there are also a lot more locked doors. There are more doors that cannot be opened than doors that can. By a large degree. Checking doors in this game is largely unrewarding, as they are usually going to be locked. Trying to find the diamond in the rough is spending a lot of time being disappointed. Not exactly an exciting use of time.

 

[Sgt_Thundercok]

It's whatever you want it to be. I'm playing as 'Cyber Bond' this playthrough. No tech weapons, only 'realistic' ones. Main is a silenced pistol.

 

[moonknightgog]

Yes they are, but just a Japanese version lol??

No. JRPG was just a marketing lable, but in reality the staples of the JRPG, like Dragon Quest, took from RPG of the times elements that aren't specific to the role playing genre. There's really no role playing in JRPGs, there aren't dialogue trees, choices and consequences, quests that are built around character skills. It's mostly an overworld filled with combat encounters

 

[koalahugs]

Genres are like guidelines. So yeah, to me Cyberpunk is an RPG action-adventure game. Whatever. I just care if it's a good experience or not.

On a side note, why anyone would expect a studio to program a voiced/cinematic game to be able to branch and fork off into several wildly different story paths like a tabletop game I'll never know. The level of complexity a game like that would require would be insane. I'm not a programmer, but I tried it at uni and it was one of the most intellectually massochistic things I've ever done and I'll never understand why anyone chooses to do it. It's amazing how complicated even the simplest of things can be.

 

[dadone86]

Genres are like guidelines. So yeah, to me Cyberpunk is an RPG action-adventure game. Whatever. I just care if it's a good experience or not.

On a side note, why anyone would expect a studio to program a voiced/cinematic game to be able to branch and fork off into several wildly different story paths like a tabletop game I'll never know. The level of complexity a game like that would require would be insane. I'm not a programmer, but I tried it at uni and it was one of the most intellectually massochistic things I've ever done and I'll never understand why anyone chooses to do it. It's amazing how complicated even the simplest of things can be.

Because they advertised it as such for years?

 

[koalahugs]

Because they advertised it as such for years?

Genuine question: can you please give an example? Because I must've completely missed that.

 

[dadone86]

Genuine question: can you please give an example? Because I must've completely missed that.

13:10 and onward https://youtu.be/FknHjl7eQ6o

 

[exxxed]

13:10 and onward https://youtu.be/FknHjl7eQ6o

You realize the story branches when you start doing Chipping In and Riders of The Storm, like it literally branches into three different directions whether you like it or not.

Post automatically merged: Feb 14, 2021

• Character customization The stuff that matters, namely the building of skill, capability, and things that define the character, is present in CP. This is very limited. We get to pick attributes and perks, choose outfits, and pick cyberware. This is pretty limited for an RPG, but it is what we get when a computer game calls itself an RPG)

I was completely with you until this part, it's limited compared to which RPG exactly?

Cyberpunk has, 5 different Attribute Trees and 400 perks.

https://rankedboost.com/cyberpunk-2077/perks/

Yes you may argue that some of them are useless, fine, every RPG ever has redundant perks.

On top of that you get to level up your individual skills as well akin to Skyrim, the more you use a technical ability, weapons etc. you get to level up your specific skill to gain different permanent boosts (like carrying capacity, weapon damage, speed etc.)
I'm sorry but I don't see how it's limited.

• Open world (This is a requirement for any RPG game, but only if the intent is to stick around. An RPG game can certainly exist that is not open world, but players don't spend lots of time there. If they do, the world has to be interactive, which was the point of my original reply. CP is a game where players are not expected to stick around, but it acts like the developers originally wanted it to be. What we got was an action adventure story game that was originally intended to be an RPG game.)

I really don't see how open world is a requirement, there's multiple RPGs that are not open world, KoTOR, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, The Witcher, Neverwinter Nights, Divinity Original Sin, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines etc.

You perhaps meant sandbox, but that doesn't matter either as long as it allows you to shape your role as a character which Cyberpunk definitely allows (Solo, Netrunner, Techie, Assassin, Ghost and any other combinations).

• Choosing your path (CP does this, but only as part of the story game. There is no RPG choice in this game, outside of the CDPR story. When was the last time V joined Militech as a merc, joined a gang, or became a medic for Trauma Team? V cannot because the path is that V follows the story to one of the endings, and none of the endings do that. By the time I can join some Nomad clan, or one of the supported endings, I am at the end, so who cares? "V's story is done, please be sure to stop by the gift shop on your way out, and thanks for playing! Have a nice day. Please exit the theater to the right so the next group can enter.")

Now this is where things get blurry, you can follow a specific path, the large majority of conversations allow you to chose dialogue that advances the quest based on your origin story, that helps set V on a specific path.

As for factions, there are Fixers, they operate in different districts, the more you do quests for a specific fixer the more quests open up, likewise with the Street Cred system which opens up other interactions within the dialogues (Some dialogues fail of you have lower Street Cred, like for example trying to get a certain BD, or dealing with scavs that are trying to pull a fast one on the nomads etc.).

Now how do factions work, you join up start doing quests and as a reward you get more quests until you pretty much end the faction quest chain, most of the time the factions in a game exist individually from one another and never interact, which is pretty much what Cyberpunk is doing, which I wish wasn't like that, I would have loved for fixers to be in conflict with one another over territory and have V decide who to work for.

 

[AikoHayashi]

For me, this is an RPG game and it can be linear only if the player chooses this. A lot of the quests have different outcomes depending on the player's actions and interactions. Not all endings are possible as default, the players are not forced into a relationship, the most of the quest can be done without making a bloodbath. The NPCs react to the way the player finish their quests. The world starting from act 2 is open and the players are free to explore. Everything is amazingly detailed. Of course, there are things that can be improved and maybe they will be in the future, but this is out of the scope for this topic

 

[koalahugs]

13:10 and onward https://youtu.be/FknHjl7eQ6o

Thanks, I had a look at the section you linked to and, based on that, they don't claim the game will do what I talked about in my post. They said that was "a glimpse of how complex the branching storyline can get"; like, yeah, that is a true statement, that is how complex the game can be. They didn't claim it would get any more complicated than that - unless I'm missing something from before the timestamp.

What I'm talking about are "wildly different story paths like a tabletop game". I.e. limited by your imagination and I guess the "referee". So when I said "several" I really should've said a "kazillion" because the number of main storylines a tabletop game can take is practically limitless. I'm going off of what Mike Pondsmith says here:

 

[ElsonsoJannus]

I was completely with you until this part, it's limited compared to which RPG exactly?

Cyberpunk has, 5 different Attribute Trees and 400 perks.

Yes you may argue that some of them are useless, fine, every RPG ever has redundant perks.

On top of that you get to level up your individual skills as well akin to Skyrim, the more you use a technical ability, weapons etc. you get to level up your specific skill to gain different permanent boosts (like carrying capacity, weapon damage, speed etc.)
I'm sorry but I don't see how it's limited.

I see what you are saying. The term "limited" was not intended to get into a numerical comparison between different games. The term limited is used because because nothing can happen in the game that is outside of them. As I say, this is what you get when you try to do a computer RPG game.

I really don't see how open world is a requirement, there's multiple RPGs that are not open world, KoTOR, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, The Witcher, Neverwinter Nights, Divinity Original Sin, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines etc.

You perhaps meant sandbox, but that doesn't matter either as long as it allows you to shape your role as a character which Cyberpunk definitely allows (Solo, Netrunner, Techie, Assassin, Ghost and any other combinations).

The original term was "open world", but maybe they meant "sandbox".

Open world vs linear. Both can be done in an RPG game. I feel that CP is an open world game, but as with many open world games, there are linear portions that are driven by story lines. This can be seen in places where the designers have deliberately blocked off access that could short circuit a quest, or removed a quest "set" once it is no longer needed.

Sandbox vs theme park. I really don't think CP is an example of a sandbox game. It is a theme park game. In a sandbox, I get to do as I please, within reason. In terms of the metaphor, I can build my sand castle over here because this place as as good as any. CP definitely has a preference regarding what the player does. There is a "right way" to play the game, which is rewarded with a continuation of the story.

Now this is where things get blurry, you can follow a specific path, the large majority of conversations allow you to chose dialogue that advances the quest based on your origin story, that helps set V on a specific path.

I think of it this way. In an RPG game where I get to choose my path, when I drive from New York to Los Angeles, I can choose roads, highways, trails, or whatever I want. Planes. Trains. Automobiles. Bikes. Hiking. I can end up anywhere in Los Angeles when I am done. This is the pinnacle of "choose your path" and is a hallmark of RPG games.

In CP, I have to drive from a small selection of roads that the developers picked, with the bonus that I get to choose which lane to drive in. This gets me to one of five, or so, destinations in Los Angeles.

It is an extreme binary example to highlight the difference, which is more subtle. How well the computer game handles this is determined by how well the developers can offer a variety of roads and transportation methods. I am not blown away with the broad options made available by CDPR, but I have to admit, it is much better than other computer role playing games.

 

[exxxed]

-snip-

I definitely get where you're coming from, I just believe you expect too much out of a narrative heavy RPG, while things like that are wonderful the way Cyberpunk is built is outside of that scope because of the production value aspects.

Say for example, compare the NPC interaction from Fallout New Vegas to Cyberpunk, while it's wonderful that Fallout NV has so many different options to reply with, nothing really changes, it's a static background with a talking head, that depending on your choice, the talking head changes to a different talking head.

While I would have loved completely different life lines through the game, it's just unrealistic at the moment.

Although, Cyberpunk isn't as limited as choosing just ''the lanes'' as you say, when you have three completely different roads to take that leads you to different endings ( I don't just mean the choice at the end), the disconnect here seems to be the fact that you can chose to follow all those three roads simultaneously to lead you to three different (or four) choices at the end.

Structurally speaking, they could have limited the player interaction with those three different roads with a time limit imposed by The Relic, say if you follow Panam's path you would get somewhat locked from Johnny's path due to the time limit presented to you.

But statistically speaking, most major companies want the players to experience everything possible in one go, otherwise the it doesn't cover the investment in the assets and dev time required to develop such distinct paths when a large majority of the player base won't get to experience it.

Which is an industry wide problem as games cost more to produce and have a higher visual presentation.

 

[mouser9169]

what makes something an rpg in your view? to be honest party customization really isn't an rpg feature, thats more of a game mechanic. Nothing about rpg mandates a party. This game has as much, if nit more build customization than most rpgs. It just doesn't make everything into a separate class with specific rules.

Party building is a core part of one type of RPG. There are several types.

Really, what people mean when they say something is a </insert genre> is that it is like some other accepted examples of that genre (that's true not just with games, but pretty much everything).

The first computer RPG I can remember playing was Wizardry on the Apple II. Build a party, descend into the dungeon, slay the Mad Overlord. Simple concept, but it worked really well for the time. Etrian Odyssey would be the modern take on that idea. Games like Baldur's Gate and Divinity: Original Sin follow this lineage. A useful term for them is cRPG. (useful defined as - conveying enough information so people can have a general idea of what you're refering to).

jRPG's have been around for a while, and come in three main flavors. Dragon Quest is the grand daddy, being the japanese take on Wizardry. They added named characters and a story to the long slog of combat. Final Fantasy is in this line as well, adding the twist that it basically reinvents itself with every entry, while DQ is the 'comfort food' .

The Megaten games started the 'monster summoning' branch, evolving into Shin Megami Tensei. Pokemon took this idea, gave it a smiling face, and ran all the way to the bank and back. The mechanics focused more about your pets than you (although the human are still important in the SMT games).

Then you had the Tales of series. Take Dragon Quest, but add in real time combat with different button attacks instead of menu driven turn based attacks.

Back in the west, the Elder Scrolls brought in RPG's based on a single character. These have tended to become much more streamlined over time - Daggerfall is more complex than Morrowind or Gothic, which are more complex than Skyrim. At the same time 'action' games have been getting more complex, adding in RPG style elements - see: Assassin's Creed and Tomb Raider.


Cyberpunk to me is more like Tomb Raider (the recent trilogy) mixed with Borderlands. Yes, it has more character specs and numbers, but the basic gameplay loop is kill enemies, sort through the loot, equip and customize better loot, lather, rinse, repeat. Hard really, to pin down where this game fits, which can be a great thing if it's an original idea that works, but not so much if it flounders around like it's having an identity crisis.

Mechanically, the hacking (aka the magic system) is probably the most RPG part of the game. You spec into the spells you want, and have different ways of using them in the world in and out of battle. My next playthrough I'm definitely going to try a netrunner. In fact, that may be the difference in people's opinions of the game. *shrug*

Edit: one more thing that hurts this game in the RPG discussion is that much of the story isn't V's story - it's Johnny's. It's hard to role-play when your role is 'spectator'.

 

[exxxed]

Party building is a core part of one type of RPG. There are several types.

Really, what people mean when they say something is a </insert genre> is that it is like some other accepted examples of that genre (that's true not just with games, but pretty much everything).

The first computer RPG I can remember playing was Wizardry on the Apple II. Build a party, descend into the dungeon, slay the Mad Overlord. Simple concept, but it worked really well for the time. Etrian Odyssey would be the modern take on that idea. Games like Baldur's Gate and Divinity: Original Sin follow this lineage. A useful term for them is cRPG. (useful defined as - conveying enough information so people can have a general idea of what you're refering to).

jRPG's have been around for a while, and come in three main flavors. Dragon Quest is the grand daddy, being the japanese take on Wizardry. They added named characters and a story to the long slog of combat. Final Fantasy is in this line as well, adding the twist that it basically reinvents itself with every entry, while DQ is the 'comfort food' .

The Megaten games started the 'monster summoning' branch, evolving into Shin Megami Tensei. Pokemon took this idea, gave it a smiling face, and ran all the way to the bank and back. The mechanics focused more about your pets than you (although the human are still important in the SMT games).

Then you had the Tales of series. Take Dragon Quest, but add in real time combat with different button attacks instead of menu driven turn based attacks.

Back in the west, the Elder Scrolls brought in RPG's based on a single character. These have tended to become much more streamlined over time - Daggerfall is more complex than Morrowind or Gothic, which are more complex than Skyrim. At the same time 'action' games have been getting more complex, adding in RPG style elements - see: Assassin's Creed and Tomb Raider.

Mechanically, the hacking (aka the magic system) is probably the most RPG part of the game. You spec into the spells you want, and have different ways of using them in the world in and out of battle. My next playthrough I'm definitely going to try a netrunner. In fact, that may be the difference in people's opinions of the game. *shrug*

This is a good post, but I can't help and disagree with parts of it.

Cyberpunk to me is more like Tomb Raider (the recent trilogy) mixed with Borderlands. Yes, it has more character specs and numbers, but the basic gameplay loop is kill enemies, sort through the loot, equip and customize better loot, lather, rinse, repeat. Hard really, to pin down where this game fits, which can be a great thing if it's an original idea that works, but not so much if it flounders around like it's having an identity crisis.

The gameplay loop is about resolving a situation, it's very RPG like in this instance, you have multiple tools at your disposal to emphasize on the role aspect of your character, killing is not always involved, and there are multiple cases where dialogue is one of the options as well.

As for the very definition of an RPG, a game which allows the player to pick a role - read create in this case - and play out that role throughout the experience, not every game is an RPG since not every game allows the player to pick from multiple roles.

For example, Assassin's Creed, you will always be playing an assassin (the newer iterations are more blurry here hence why the get categorized into the action-RPG segment) in Tomb Raider you only get to play an archeologist that does environmental puzzles and has two options to deal with enemies (the newer ones anyway) which is straight combat or stealth - but it wasn't always the case here, some encounters cannot be bypassed by stealth.

Borderlines as well, it's an FPS-RPG lite hybrid, you don't really have an option to not skip combat even though it has many ways to deal with enemies and different classes, the player doesn't play a different role, they're still a combatant, the technical definition here is hack and slash.

Now when it comes to Cyberpunk there are distinctive play styles that are functionally acting like classes, combat, stealth combat and pure stealth, killing is not the only option, being detected is not the only option, and multiple times the character can approach the assailants and talk their way out of an encounter - ultimately falling into one of the hybrid roles that the player choses to play.

That to me says that this game is undoubtedly an RPG.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Party building is a core part of one type of RPG. There are several types.

Really, what people mean when they say something is a </insert genre> is that it is like some other accepted examples of that genre (that's true not just with games, but pretty much everything).

The first computer RPG I can remember playing was Wizardry on the Apple II. Build a party, descend into the dungeon, slay the Mad Overlord. Simple concept, but it worked really well for the time. Etrian Odyssey would be the modern take on that idea. Games like Baldur's Gate and Divinity: Original Sin follow this lineage. A useful term for them is cRPG. (useful defined as - conveying enough information so people can have a general idea of what you're refering to).

jRPG's have been around for a while, and come in three main flavors. Dragon Quest is the grand daddy, being the japanese take on Wizardry. They added named characters and a story to the long slog of combat. Final Fantasy is in this line as well, adding the twist that it basically reinvents itself with every entry, while DQ is the 'comfort food' .

The Megaten games started the 'monster summoning' branch, evolving into Shin Megami Tensei. Pokemon took this idea, gave it a smiling face, and ran all the way to the bank and back. The mechanics focused more about your pets than you (although the human are still important in the SMT games).

Then you had the Tales of series. Take Dragon Quest, but add in real time combat with different button attacks instead of menu driven turn based attacks.

Back in the west, the Elder Scrolls brought in RPG's based on a single character. These have tended to become much more streamlined over time - Daggerfall is more complex than Morrowind or Gothic, which are more complex than Skyrim. At the same time 'action' games have been getting more complex, adding in RPG style elements - see: Assassin's Creed and Tomb Raider.


Cyberpunk to me is more like Tomb Raider (the recent trilogy) mixed with Borderlands. Yes, it has more character specs and numbers, but the basic gameplay loop is kill enemies, sort through the loot, equip and customize better loot, lather, rinse, repeat. Hard really, to pin down where this game fits, which can be a great thing if it's an original idea that works, but not so much if it flounders around like it's having an identity crisis.

Mechanically, the hacking (aka the magic system) is probably the most RPG part of the game. You spec into the spells you want, and have different ways of using them in the world in and out of battle. My next playthrough I'm definitely going to try a netrunner. In fact, that may be the difference in people's opinions of the game. *shrug*

Edit: one more thing that hurts this game in the RPG discussion is that much of the story isn't V's story - it's Johnny's. It's hard to role-play when your role is 'spectator'.

I don't think cyberpunk is as you described it. The primary gameplay loop is to solve objectives according to your chosen charachter.

even though I don't think progression is the main arbiter of rpg, lets look at gameplay progression.

item progression: the most efficient and powerful item progression is based on quests, exploration, and crafting. Iconics are found from certain quests and in hidden locations. Armor is most reliable by exploring open world, finding specific fixed boxes, leveling up crafting or buying from npcs.

level progression, you get the most exp from doing main quests, and side quests. Main quests and side quests are mostly story based, and don't always involve combat. Most of them you can sneak, straight up run, or kill your way through.

skill progression, is based on using said skill. so, leveling the skill is dependent on what the skill is.

story progression, obviously based on following narrative elements.


to me all these factors make this game even more rpg than many of the first rpgs i played.

Its plot varies more than choose your own adventure books,

you act out a given role way more than jrpgs, and have more freedom to explore, and different story paths

its pretty inline with many crpgs, from an rpg perspective I guess. But offers more varied means of completing objectives, whereas most crpgs were only killing, or conversation, this one adds sneaking, and running to the mix.

 

[heskyttberg]

The biggest reasons why this is not an RPG and more of a borderlands clone done in open world.
You talk to guy, you go do mission. Finished ....

You loot new and better weapons from kills, there are very few choices in dialogue to actually make any change to character.

It is impossible to play a complete ass and be a fuck all bad person and more or less do things another way, same as borderlands.

Compare to Mass Effect, Getting a pass to go to peak can be done in several ways, you can convince him to testify.
You can turn in the agent. You can disable security and give the proof to administrator.

That is 3 different ways in action and dialogue to achieve the objective to get a pass. Skyrim and Fallout also has things like this. For me that is what make games RPG or not and CP is lacking so badly in this. Why is there not any diplomatic skills that could be used to talk down some cyberpsychos.

Almost every encounter need to be solved by shooting, killing and so on.
Just running past everyone to the end of building and mission will finish is very GAMEY and not really a way to do things.

Here also difficulty come in to play in no way can you run through things on highest difficulty in most other games without getting killed a lot no matter your skills.

If CP is RPG then so is Wolfenstein, only first person, romance, upgrading skills, new weapons.
In Wolfenstein mc even has more sex with his love interest then in CP,

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

The biggest reasons why this is not an RPG and more of a borderlands clone done in open world.
You talk to guy, you go do mission. Finished ....

You loot new and better weapons from kills, there are very few choices in dialogue to actually make any change to character.

It is impossible to play a complete ass and be a fuck all bad person and more or less do things another way, same as borderlands.

Compare to Mass Effect, Getting a pass to go to peak can be done in several ways, you can convince him to testify.


You can turn in the agent. You can disable security and give the proof to administrator.

That is 3 different ways in action and dialogue to achieve the objective to get a pass. Skyrim and Fallout also has things like this. For me that is what make games RPG or not and CP is lacking so badly in this. Why is there not any diplomatic skills that could be used to talk down some cyberpsychos.

Almost every encounter need to be solved by shooting, killing and so on.
Just running past everyone to the end of building and mission will finish is very GAMEY and not really a way to do things.

Here also difficulty come in to play in no way can you run through things on highest difficulty in most other games without getting killed a lot no matter your skills.

If CP is RPG then so is Wolfenstein, only first person, romance, upgrading skills, new weapons.
In Wolfenstein mc even has more sex with his love interest then in CP,

you are actually wrong.

you don't need to loot random enemies to have the best gear in game, in fact it is the worst way to gear up

you can be a complete ass and say fuck everybody

there multiple ways to complete many quests.

you can refuse many quests that don't fit your character.

Quests it make sense to talk your way out of, you can talk your way out of. Quests that don't, you can't, the same is true for the other games.

you can talk to Woodman to find out where Evelyn is, or you can kill him. You can steal a VIP pass and walk around freely, or you can beat up everyone, or you can sneak through windows.

Almost no encounter needs to be solved by shooting and killing. You can kill no one in this game, you can never use a gun outside of car chase scenes and Johnny Memories.

Running in and out isn't "gamey" thats how many things are done irl , if the objective is obtain X. And thats not due to difficulty, its usually harder to run in and out than to eliminate the enemies.

Mass effects morality system was cartoonish and illogical. I don't think it was a great example of choices of and rpgness. But to each their own.

 

[exxxed]

Almost no encounter needs to be solved by shooting and killing. You can kill no one in this game, you can never use a gun outside of car chase scenes and Johnny Memories.

I'd push this further and say that every encounter, including the bosses can be solved solely through stealth and violence can be a secondary option through the entire game.

It seems like people get confused since you can in fact shoot at things in this game, might not be an RPG since one is presented with a loaded gun and loot .

 

[batouyukinawa]

Yup, been quite passive at times. I've completed missions without firing a single shot.

 

[szspagna]

Well, in Cyberpunk you can join the Aldecaldos, The Afterlife Mercs or Arasaka...

The all give you different ending paths...

There's crafting in Cyberpunk and weapon upgrades that work the same as in Skyrim.

Speaking of which let's not even mention the Guilds in Skyrim, they're a joke compared to Oblivion's...

With the same outcome. You die in 6 months.

And since they made the endings both wildly divergent and final in outcome, how can you even have a post-game DLC to elaborate? How are you gonna walk back the suicide ending, or having soulkiller used on you by Arasaka to store your engram in their database? Maybe Takemura will find you a suitable body despite the fact he just told you they didn't have the technology for it? In which case the technology is developed in as short a time span of 6 months.

Let's not even talk if you gave Johnny your body.

In other words, they would have to code the post-game DLC to require that you not choose any of those closed off endings that kill off V 100%. By which point you have problems because you release a product that bars certain users' save files from participating.

This has all been atrociously managed. We're going to be stuck with these garbage Mass Effect 3 style endings on top of getting DLC's that are basically mid-game DLC's that lead to nowhere because the endings will be the same anyways, leaving the feeling of any actions pointless.