Many mods and perks are irrelevant?

[Caralampio]

For example, the ADS of scopes. Aim down sight. Typical scopes have values like -0.02 sec ADS. That's one fiftieth of a second. Really? Can you even note the difference? I doubt the human eye, hand, or brain can even perceive 1/50 of a second. Anyway after aiming you have to adjust so the 0.02 sec is lost.
Or Zero drag, a mod for shoes. A typical version gives you a 0.3 increase in movement. At first I thought this meant that your speed was increased in 30%, but nope, looking closely, it means that your speed is increased by 0.3 meters per second. Yep, in one second you will advance a whole 30 centimeters, or about one foot, more than normal. I don't know how much V runs in the game, but assuming the real world value of 5 meters per sec, it means you run at 5.3 meters per second which is about a 6% increase. Sure, it's something, but hardly relevant in a battle where a sprint to chop off an enemy's head may take at most 3 seconds. Maybe if you decide to run 500 meters to your next objective instead of jumping on your car, you'll get there in 95 seconds instead of 100. (Note: This mod might actually be more useful for walking, because if you advance say 1 meter per second, you would be advancing 1.3 meters with those shoes. Walking 500 meters would take about 385 seconds instead of 500. If you like to just jog placidly and enjoy the scenery.)
Or take High noon, a perk for handguns. Every level increases critical chance by 2%. Two. Percent. Of course, it's something, but so irrelevant that it isn't worth spending a perk in this. Three perks to get 6%. Even if you're specializing in handguns, investing in this is a waste. Investing in anything else even outside the Reflexes attribute would be more useful.

 

[Notserious80]

For example, the ADS of scopes. Aim down sight. Typical scopes have values like -0.02 sec ADS. That's one fiftieth of a second. Really? Can you even note the difference? I doubt the human eye, hand, or brain can even perceive 1/50 of a second. Anyway after aiming you have to adjust so the 0.02 sec is lost.
Or Zero drag, a mod for shoes. A typical version gives you a 0.3 increase in movement. At first I thought this meant that your speed was increased in 30%, but nope, looking closely, it means that your speed is increased by 0.3 meters per second. Yep, in one second you will advance a whole 30 centimeters, or about one foot, more than normal. I don't know how much V runs in the game, but assuming the real world value of 5 meters per sec, it means you run at 5.3 meters per second which is about a 6% increase. Sure, it's something, but hardly relevant in a battle where a sprint to chop off an enemy's head may take at most 3 seconds. Maybe if you decide to run 500 meters to your next objective instead of jumping on your car, you'll get there in 95 seconds instead of 100. (Note: This mod might actually be more useful for walking, because if you advance say 1 meter per second, you would be advancing 1.3 meters with those shoes. Walking 500 meters would take about 385 seconds instead of 500. If you like to just jog placidly and enjoy the scenery.)
Or take High noon, a perk for handguns. Every level increases critical chance by 2%. Two. Percent. Of course, it's something, but so irrelevant that it isn't worth spending a perk in this. Three perks to get 6%. Even if you're specializing in handguns, investing in this is a waste. Investing in anything else even outside the Reflexes attribute would be more useful.

At release it was totally diffrent with alot more modslots and much higher %ages. same with the talents, it was fairly easy too reach unkilleble with 100% crit chance and 300% dmg. They did a stat squash with 1.5 and changed alot(enemy hp beeing one) so that why most stats are so low. I do agree that most talents feel pretty bland and 2% more crit is kinda pointless but im not sure i would want the old system back either.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I don't know how much V runs in the game, but assuming the real world value of 5 meters per sec

5 meters per second, you walk damn fast
But if you "stask" few of these mods, you can really feel the difference. Above all when you remove them all at once... You feel quite slow after
And it work when crouching too, quite useful for stealth

Or take High noon, a perk for handguns. Every level increases critical chance by 2%. Two. Percent. Of course, it's something, but so irrelevant that it isn't worth spending a perk in this. Three perks to get 6%. Even if you're specializing in handguns, investing in this is a waste. Investing in anything else even outside the Reflexes attribute would be more useful.

Yeah, changed in 1.5 because before it was way too overpowered.
At point that crit can easily exceed a million of dmg with a handgun... (remember to flat down Oda with "only" two headshots in very hard with my overture^^).
So they reduced everything related to critics in 1.5, for the better if you ask me

 

[GrimReaper801]

5 meters per second, you walk damn fast

Well he did say run and he's not pulling that number out of nowhere neither, it's the actual average running speed.

Athletes reach far more than that in fact. Usain Bolt, for example, reached 10.44 meters per second.

Relevant bit for convenience's sake:

Speed is the rate at which an object (or person) moves through time. It is represented mathematically as speed = d/t (in which d is distance and t is time). That means that Bolt’s speed during his world-record run was 10.44 meters per second.

Also important to note that he reached that starting from zero, which means his top speed is actually faster than that.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Well he did say run and he's not pulling that number out of nowhere neither, it's the actual average running speed.

Athletes reach far more than that in fact. Usain Bolt, for example, reached 10.44 meters per second.

Relevant bit for convenience's sake:


Also important to note that he reached that starting from zero, which means his top speed is actually faster than that.

Yeah, it was a bad joke, my bad
But the important point was that the mod work while crouching, walking or running. So while running, the "bonus" is indeed, not that great, but while walking or crounching, it is and it's noticeable

 

[GrimReaper801]

Yeah, it was a bad joke, my bad
But the important point was that the mod work while crouching, walking or running. So while running, the "bonus" is indeed, not that great, but while walking or crounching, it is and it's noticeable

I wasn't arguing that it's noticeable or not. Only mentioning that the 5 m/s real world figure is right.

I would've preferred if perks and such made more drastic change that would dramatically change the way you play your V but I don't care enough about it to get into the noticeable/not noticeable discussion more than this.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I wasn't arguing that it's noticeable or not. Only mentioning that the 5 m/s real world figure is right.

I would've preferred if perks and such made more drastic change that would dramatically change the way you play your V but I don't care enough about it to get into the noticeable/not noticeable discussion more than this.

Yeah, now it's "only" noticeable mostly when crouching or walking. But like crit damages, it's due to 1.5 changes.
Before, it was possible to stack 20 legendary mods which increase movement speed by 0.5 m/s each. So you could end by increasing your movement speed by 10m/s, which was more than noticeable... In addition to Reflexes attribute movement speed bonus (3% per point), it was "too much" in my opinion.

I assume that CDPR will keep improving/reworking the whole system in the next update, but I don't expect to see a complete overhaul, knowing that TW3 had the same system with Runestones and Glyphes (small % that you can possibly stack).

 

[GrimReaper801]

Yeah, now it's "only" noticeable mostly when crouching or walking. But like crit damages, it's due to 1.5 changes.
Before, it was possible to stack 20 legendary mods which increase movement speed by 0.5 m/s each. So you could end by increasing your movement speed by 10m/s, which was more than noticeable... In addition to Reflexes attribute movement speed bonus (3% per point), it was "too much" in my opinion.

I assume that CDPR will keep improving/reworking the whole system in the next update, but I don't expect to see a complete overhaul, knowing that TW3 had the same system with Runestones and Glyphes (small % that you can possibly stack).

Yeah, the old mod system was absolutely broken. Was far too easy to turn yourself into an unstoppable killing machine very early on. It needed a nerf.

A complete overhaul is most likely not happening like you said. I wish they hadn't played it so safe with the perk though. Would've added great replay value had the perks, cyberware and mods had a bigger impact in how your V plays.

 

[Notserious80]

Yeah, the old mod system was absolutely broken. Was far too easy to turn yourself into an unstoppable killing machine very early on. It needed a nerf.

A complete overhaul is most likely not happening like you said. I wish they hadn't played it so safe with the perk though. Would've added great replay value had the perks, cyberware and mods had a bigger impact in how your V plays.

Agree, V feels the same most of the time unless you limit yourself hard on how you can specc/play. Old way was kinda meaningless too tbh since with the high armor/crit/crit dmg you just 1 shot everything. Would have loved more fun talents and weapons that really changed how you play.

 

[Jep1st]

I agree that many bonuses are simply not worth it. Most damage perks are also quite undesireable since you get 3% per perk level more base damage and 9-10% with all three perk levels. 9-10% is 9-10pts more damage to a gun that deals 100dmg by default so I never take those perks. It's not useless but I don't see that small of an increase worth three perk points.
That's why I like bonuses that give an actual worthy investment like increased headshot damage since the base damage is already high and the bonuses are good. E.g. in handguns you get up to 15% more and it stacks with other headshot multipliers.
Also things like reaload speed, cooldowns, health and stamina regen are all good.

Propably the two best perk trees with a lot of worthy perks are quickhacking and cold blood followed by crafting, engineering, ninjutsu and athletics.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

9-10% is 9-10pts more damage to a gun that deals 100dmg by default so I never take those perks. It's not useless but I don't see that small of an increase worth three perk points.

It depend
Let's take an example : the Lizzie gun.
Low base damage but very high fire rate and two bullets per shot.
So in theory, just 10% on base damages is not that great... But it's all matter of maths.
The perk add 10% per shot (so 20% in total) + maybe adding some CRUNCH mods too which add 6,7,8 or 9 to base damages, mulpilied by fire rate, multiplied by headshot multiplier and bonuses, multiplied by "charge" bonus perk on tech weapons and so on,...
It end with a big/significant damages increase in reality

 

[Jep1st]

It depend
Let's take an example : the Lizzie gun.
Low base damage but very high fire rate and two bullets per shot.
So in theory, just 10% on base damages is not that great... But it's all matter of maths.
The perk add 10% per shot (so 20% in total) + maybe adding some CRUNCH mods too which add 6,7,8 or 9 to base damages, mulpilied by fire rate, multiplied by headshot multiplier and bonuses, multiplied by "charge" bonus perk on tech weapons and so on,...
It end with a big/significant damages increase in reality

Sure it can be helpful, especially if you build your character around a special thing like the Lizzie but in every playthrough where I don't put those three perks into those 3/6/10% perks, I'm still very powerful due to other even more useful bonuses.
Like I said, I don't see them as useless but I also don't really see it worth the investment. Especially now since they made the crunch mod to be percentrage based instead of just a flat damage boost. A legendary gun with 4x7% damage bonus is in itself extremely powerful. Then add things like headshot multiplier and crit damage, and you just don't need that tiny bonus from the 3/6/10% perks.
But maybe it's just me

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Sure it can be helpful, especially if you build your character around a special thing like the Lizzie but in every playthrough where I don't put those three perks into those 3/6/10% perks, I'm still very powerful due to other even more useful bonuses.
Like I said, I don't see them as useless but I also don't really see it worth the investment. Especially now since they made the crunch mod to be percentrage based instead of just a flat damage boost. A legendary gun with 4x7% damage bonus is in itself extremely powerful. Then add things like headshot multiplier and crit damage, and you just don't need that tiny bonus from the 3/6/10% perks.
But maybe it's just me

Honeslty, it depend how you play
For me, all this little bonuses make the difference, in stealth where you must kill dudes in one shot. So 10% of 519-634 dmg, it's not nothing and mulplied by all the other bonuses, it end to make a real difference (and it "almost" cancel the damage reduction added by the silencer).
To quote a streamer > "Every damage is a good damage"

So let's take another example :
You play as netrunner with legendary Short Circuit equiped.
You could use a Lexington and Problem Solver which have a really great fire rate but (very) low base damages.
It could be a good idea to add every "tiny" chances to make a critic, because the Short Circuit effect will be applied everytimes that you deal a critic. So every 3-5 bullets, you're almost sure to deal a critic.
Instead of if you play a "Solo Sniper" with Overwatch. There, it seem quite useless because you will kill the dudes in one shot.
Example in this video (look how Short Circuit effect literally "suck" the dude health at each critic).

Spoiler: The same, but without Short Circuit which make "critic" less poweful

Another example that I have in mind was when I tried "Don't fear the Reaper", with my fully modded/upgraded Prototype mark V after the 1.5 release (to test it, in very hard).
First time, without any Assault perks/bonuses : I feel quite "weak".
Second time with all the perks, even the "tiny" bonuses of 10% : I feel really powerful.

(And maybe it's me too, but I always end the game with perk points that I don't know where to put them, generally more than 10. Because perks available seem "irrevelant" for my play style, but they're probably not for other players)

 

[TheDefiantPirate21]

im not sure myself I have not messed with them much given they are a one time use I kinda horde them but then again I am still very much just running around and learning the system and trying to figure out cool fun builds to run

 

[Iferrebee]

With the right knife throwing build all weapons are pointless

No bullets required with a knife

 

[Hayte]

The way you describe movement speed is not how it works. There are 4 movement types: sprint, walk, sneak, swim.

Base move speed is 1.0 and each type works like a multiplier of base speed. e.g. Swim is 0.5. Walk is 3.5.

Your modded move speed is your movement type x the sum of your bonus move speed from reflexes/100 x 1 + the sum of all your movespeed% bonuses from perks. You end up with a decimal number which matches your character sheet (except the character sheet doesn't show decimals).

I'm not sure where Zero Drag fits into the equation but back when it was stackable it made a very big difference. As in, zero drags + 20 reflexes alone would make you sneak faster than you can otherwise walk.

 

[Caralampio]

5 meters per second, you walk damn fast
But if you "stask" few of these mods, you can really feel the difference. Above all when you remove them all at once... You feel quite slow after
And it work when crouching too, quite useful for stealth

Yeah, changed in 1.5 because before it was way too overpowered.
At point that crit can easily exceed a million of dmg with a handgun... (remember to flat down Oda with "only" two headshots in very hard with my overture^^).
So they reduced everything related to critics in 1.5, for the better if you ask me

I hadn't considered sneaking. THERE 30 cms per sec might make a difference.