Netrunning in 2.0 is still amazing

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I've seen lots of posts complaining about netrunning since the 2.0 Patch (Only here though, sentiment is overwhelmingly positive on any other site). People say it's now impossible to be a stealth netrunner, and that the build is completely broken. They also complain about the trace mechanic. Personally, as someone who has been playing as a stealth netrunner since launch and is now on his 4th playthrough, I find that stealth netrunning not only still works in 2.0, but feels amazing and more complete than before.

First of all, of course you won't be able to be an OP netrunner when starting the game. At a low level, you shouldn't be able to be one of the best netrunners in Night City. It makes no sense. If you're playing on the harder difficulties, you won't be able to just waltz into an encounter with a Katana and cut up every enemy like it's nothing either. You need to actually invest in your build to be able to be an efficient netrunner, which makes sense and is how every RPG ever has worked. This was a clear flaw of the system at launch, that many people asked to be fix. It was simply too OP.

Then, there is the trace. It used to be limited to one netrunner, which made it really easy to avoid. Just find the netrunner through cameras and kill them first, and you're golden. It needed to be buffed as a mechanic. A trace is also a pretty simple thing, and anyone on the network should be able to do it. Enemy groups are all connected on the same network, this has been established many times in the game, since launch. It makes perfect sense that anyone on the network would be able to trace an intruder.

Now, if you play as a stealth netrunner, you will have to invest in your build. This goes beyond your perks, and extends to the cyberware you buy and the quickhacks you get. If you invest in the right perks, buy the right cyberdeck, and equip the right quickhacks, you will be able to deal with entire groups of enemies while either avoiding the trace or killing everyone before it finishes. I have done this myself many times, killing everyone during a gig without ever pulling out a weapon or going out of stealth.

If you really can't wait until you invest in your build, or you just can't deal with the mechanic, you should be aware that putting enough distance between you and the enemy will lead to an automatic fail for the trace. You don't even have to go that far TBH, you just move around until it fails and then get right back to it. There are also ways to start picking off enemies before you use a quickhack that leads to a trace. For example, you can lure enemies (Bait, distract enemies, etc.) in a secluded spots and use hackable objects to kill them, like overloading a fuel tank or dropping some boxes on them. If the spot is secluded enough, other enemies won't notice. Even if they do, you cannot get traced by hacking an object (Which again makes sense, since they aren't on the same network), so there will be no trace and they will simply start searching. If you're well hidden, it's not a problem. You can also complement the early build with takedowns by baiting enemies to easy takedown spots or by having a silenced sniper or pistol and picking off a couple of isolated enemies to reduce the time needed to kill the others by quickhacks.

Overclock also makes a lot of sense, lore-wise, as a mechanic. Pretty much every great netrunner we encounter in the game have a netrunning chair, and some even have an ice bath to cool down. This is because netrunning is EXTREMELY hard on the body. This has been highlighted many times in the game, and in other Cyberpunk media. In the game, we're doing netrunning on the fly, without any equipment. This would obviously cause you a lot of pain, and to use many pwerful quickhacks in a row, it makes sense that you would take damage. I actually think this is one the coolest mechanics of the game. If you invest in health regeneration perks on top of that, you become a netrunning god and it's almost limitless.

With the build fully realized, you can be just as powerful as in previous versions of the game. They just finally decided to include an actual sense of progression, instead of allowing netrunning to be OP right off the bat. You didn't even have to think before, it was way too easy to use quickhacks to kill enemies.

Another thing is that you don't necessarily have to kill everyone either. Stay in stealth, spot where you need to go for the mission, maybe by using cameras, and only take out specific, strategic targets. Then you get to your goal, do what you need to do and leave before they get the chance to trace you. For example, in the An Inconvenient Killer gig, you need to kill Jack Mausser in a packed club. Walking in and scoping the place, I quickly noticed that it would be very hard to isolate enemies, and thus almost impossible to kill everyone and gain easy access to the office without being traced. So what I did instead, was stand on the second level in the public area, straight across from Jack Mausser's office. He was standing in front of his window, looking down to the people dancing in his club. I activated Overclock, looked straight at him and used the suicide quickhack. He pulled out his gun, shot himself in the head, and died. I calmly walked out of there and nobody ever knew I was there.

Truly a badass netrunner moment.
 
I agree It I will say As someone who has played stealth netrunner 3 times now (only build I have played so far) i was a bit confused at first as I could not delete the enemies like I used to and traces were catching me before I could get all the enemies so I end up in combat.
Then when i realised they had changed hacks and then I actually read the hacks and deck details more, especially sonic shock, it all came together and when I got memory wipe (never buy hacks, get free from access points so waited for it to drop) then I realised what they had done.

The build had been changed from an OP 1 button delete to a careful hide and seek RAM management from the trace using sonic shock to stop the trace program so your RAM regens and using memory wipe to decrease the trace program.
These 2 quickhacks are a must for a stealth netrunner.

So yeah ping standard, memory wipe and sonic shock for traces but you need memory wipe lso you install before you queue hacks to stop trace from being started and sonic shock to stop enemies hearing their friends die.

Now I actually do feel more of a stealthy netrunner than ever, where before it was so OP I could run in cycberpsycho 2, and kill the rest with ultimate hacks while the 2 psychos are keeping everyone busy.

Also when you get overclock, well that is it, you get blood pump, overclock and the auto heal cyberware and you have near infinite RAM.

So yeah, its a slow progression from a script kiddie to an OG deamon god.
 
It's awful. Period. The only thing CDP made with "stealth tecnomages" is nerf their damn gameplay basically every damn time they touch this aspect of the game. But If you fight like an hooligans with guns and blades you can have all shitload of power and stamina ("ram") regen that you want. And no sonic shock is useless if the next quick hack is nerfed and much less powerful than before even at normal difficulty, and many enemies are immune or at least very resistant to hacks while EVERYONE is very sensitive to the rain of bullets and swords. No, they destroyed, for the umpteenth time, hacking. While gunmen can still have their damn gameplay. It's WRONG.
I gave up on them. They can keep the sequel. After TWO years they've already done enough damage and barely improved aspects that actually had LARGE room for improvement.
 
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I've seen lots of posts complaining about netrunning since the 2.0 Patch (Only here though, sentiment is overwhelmingly positive on any other site). People say it's now impossible to be a stealth netrunner, and that the build is completely broken. They also complain about the trace mechanic. Personally, as someone who has been playing as a stealth netrunner since launch and is now on his 4th playthrough, I find that stealth netrunning not only still works in 2.0, but feels amazing and more complete than before.

First of all, of course you won't be able to be an OP netrunner when starting the game. At a low level, you shouldn't be able to be one of the best netrunners in Night City. It makes no sense. If you're playing on the harder difficulties, you won't be able to just waltz into an encounter with a Katana and cut up every enemy like it's nothing either. You need to actually invest in your build to be able to be an efficient netrunner, which makes sense and is how every RPG ever has worked. This was a clear flaw of the system at launch, that many people asked to be fix. It was simply too OP.

Then, there is the trace. It used to be limited to one netrunner, which made it really easy to avoid. Just find the netrunner through cameras and kill them first, and you're golden. It needed to be buffed as a mechanic. A trace is also a pretty simple thing, and anyone on the network should be able to do it. Enemy groups are all connected on the same network, this has been established many times in the game, since launch. It makes perfect sense that anyone on the network would be able to trace an intruder.

Now, if you play as a stealth netrunner, you will have to invest in your build. This goes beyond your perks, and extends to the cyberware you buy and the quickhacks you get. If you invest in the right perks, buy the right cyberdeck, and equip the right quickhacks, you will be able to deal with entire groups of enemies while either avoiding the trace or killing everyone before it finishes. I have done this myself many times, killing everyone during a gig without ever pulling out a weapon or going out of stealth.

If you really can't wait until you invest in your build, or you just can't deal with the mechanic, you should be aware that putting enough distance between you and the enemy will lead to an automatic fail for the trace. You don't even have to go that far TBH, you just move around until it fails and then get right back to it. There are also ways to start picking off enemies before you use a quickhack that leads to a trace. For example, you can lure enemies (Bait, distract enemies, etc.) in a secluded spots and use hackable objects to kill them, like overloading a fuel tank or dropping some boxes on them. If the spot is secluded enough, other enemies won't notice. Even if they do, you cannot get traced by hacking an object (Which again makes sense, since they aren't on the same network), so there will be no trace and they will simply start searching. If you're well hidden, it's not a problem. You can also complement the early build with takedowns by baiting enemies to easy takedown spots or by having a silenced sniper or pistol and picking off a couple of isolated enemies to reduce the time needed to kill the others by quickhacks.

Overclock also makes a lot of sense, lore-wise, as a mechanic. Pretty much every great netrunner we encounter in the game have a netrunning chair, and some even have an ice bath to cool down. This is because netrunning is EXTREMELY hard on the body. This has been highlighted many times in the game, and in other Cyberpunk media. In the game, we're doing netrunning on the fly, without any equipment. This would obviously cause you a lot of pain, and to use many pwerful quickhacks in a row, it makes sense that you would take damage. I actually think this is one the coolest mechanics of the game. If you invest in health regeneration perks on top of that, you become a netrunning god and it's almost limitless.

With the build fully realized, you can be just as powerful as in previous versions of the game. They just finally decided to include an actual sense of progression, instead of allowing netrunning to be OP right off the bat. You didn't even have to think before, it was way too easy to use quickhacks to kill enemies.

Another thing is that you don't necessarily have to kill everyone either. Stay in stealth, spot where you need to go for the mission, maybe by using cameras, and only take out specific, strategic targets. Then you get to your goal, do what you need to do and leave before they get the chance to trace you. For example, in the An Inconvenient Killer gig, you need to kill Jack Mausser in a packed club. Walking in and scoping the place, I quickly noticed that it would be very hard to isolate enemies, and thus almost impossible to kill everyone and gain easy access to the office without being traced. So what I did instead, was stand on the second level in the public area, straight across from Jack Mausser's office. He was standing in front of his window, looking down to the people dancing in his club. I activated Overclock, looked straight at him and used the suicide quickhack. He pulled out his gun, shot himself in the head, and died. I calmly walked out of there and nobody ever knew I was there.

Truly a badass netrunner moment.
[...]

I work in the game industry as a writer/char designer. I have to say that most of these changes seem pretty poorly thought out to me.

First off the tracing is INSANE and not at all realistic. One or two people standing away from a building and you take them both down and yet somehow someone is still tracing you? It's unrealistic, extremely frustrating, and it's not fun. At all.
It's pushing people to either have to keep breaking off to run away constantly or go far more first person shooter which very much contradicts how the game was originally designed and marketed.

"Overclock also makes a lot of sense, lore-wise, as a mechanic." Nope. Not really. In the Cyberpunk TTRPG and even in the game you're told that overclocking is dangerous and that it should be avoided. To make it practically required in the game is very lore breaking and makes the game far more difficult than it needs to be or should be.

[...]
I would honestly like to know who at the studio is involved in these decisions so I NEVER accidentally hire them if their resumes cross my desk.
 
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Gotta say, in the pre 2.0 playthroughs I went for the crafting skill tree mostly and never played a netrunner aside of some basic stuff.
As crafting isn't a tree anymore, I play a netrunner and stealth pistol dude with 2.0.
And most of the time I think "WTF netrunning is overpowered!"
Wonder how OP it must have been before 2.0...
I enjoy it as it is now.
 
2.0 netrunning is fun, and still bordering on overpowered. Sonic shock (3rd tier) pretty much makes tracing a non-issue, since it isolates the target from the network, so any attacks on him can not be traced. And 4th tier version even makes it work in a way that other enemies ignore quickhack attacks at the sonic shocked target (and will only notice anything is wrong after discovering the body).

Properly built overclock can also be used as a way to heal the player, instead of risking damage. Great resource for those unarmed combats, since it is not considered a use of hacks. Also, synergies you can get from queuing multiple hacks on the same target are great too.

.

With that said, before 3rd tier hacks, stealth netrunning is indeed problematic, since the only thing you have is bait quickhack and stealth kills from pistols and knives. I would recommend skipping gigs that require stealth, until getting to 3rd tier cyberdeck.
 
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I completely agree. Netrunning is great in both stealth and open combat, although I definitely prefer stealth.

Tier 3 Sonic Shock makes stealth netrunning a piece of cake, and early-game simply requires more time, strategy, and planning. Cameras are a stealthy runners best friend, as they allow sniping enemies without needing to worry about being seen.

The more you progress the more options become available, opening up new strategies and way to have fun.

Overall, stealth netrunning is the equivalent of stealth archery in Skyrim: overpowered and an absolute blast.

Being able to hack vehicles is a nice extra. It's hilarious to, for example, use Floor It on a car driving on a busy street, or Self-Destruct to make a car blow up in enemies' faces.
(I like to use Self-Destruct to take revenge on anyone who commits a hit-and-run against me when I'm on foot.)
 
I played since the release as a netrunner, and it took me some time to find what cyberware, hacks, and strategy to use after 2.0, but now netrunning seems good to me.
It would be great if the cyberdecks could be changed without a ripperdoc. Previously, I used just one kind of legendary cyberdeck, but now I would love to change them depending on the current situation, just like we can switch weapons. Also, it would be great if we could choose to keep the installed hacks when we change a cyberdeck.
 
I definitely agree. My stealth netrunner is now in the high-40s level-wise and I'm generally leaning on the following combination:
  • T5+ cyberdeck: Tetratronic Rippler
  • Sonic Shock T5
  • Short Circuit T5
  • Synapse Burnout T5
  • Cyberware Malfunction T5
  • Overclock perk
  • T5 Blood Pump
  • T5 Biomonitor
  • Health Freak perk
  • Lots of cyberware which grants +quickhack damage, +stealth damage & +RAM recovery after neutralising
  • T5 Bioconductor
  • T5 Visual Cortex Support
Activating Overclock, I can merrily delete an entire pack of 7 or 8 enemies from stealth, in a single salvo (IE: The last hack is queued before the first has taken effect) without any detection or tracing at all. Single-life-bar enemies die directly to Sonic Shock followed by a single stack of Short Circuit. For double-life-bar enemies I usually follow the Short Circuit up with a stack of Cyberware Malfunction (to cheaply get the +40% damage on the Short Circuit). For triple-life-bar elite enemies I follow the Short Circuit up with a Synapse Burnout instead, which is sure to flatline them. I only ever use my 4th quickhack queue slot if I'm fighting a cyberpsycho.

Most of my kills are at long range, since I have a very scout/sniper play style.

With the biomonitor & blood pump and the three charges of health items that Health Freak gives me, I've got almost unlimited RAM. In a few levels time I'm going to pick up the Creeping Death perk, which seems to replenish significant amounts of health (with Overclock active that's the same as RAM) each time I flatline an enemy. I expect that to make V completely broken.
 
It's weird to me that people are so upset about caster builds not being intrinsically stealthy.
Because stealthy Was a fun way to play. It was a way that was marketed in the game, and many of us bought the game specifically because of the ability to be stealthy.

GTA style games suck. They have a very small but vocal following, and God only knows why they have a following at all, but it gets boring to just pull out a shotgun or stg and mow down everything in sight. Boring and tedious. I've never been able to get all the way through a GTA game because they are just. So. Boring.

Having to play till late 30's in order to have a stealthy netrunning playstyle again is simply not fun. It's tedious and dull. Being Stealthy is much more fun. It's part of what made cyberpunk great. It's the best thing about the tabletop version too.

Now the devs force everyone to sit there and either melee or gun down everything for 30 levels before they can be a netrunner. It's immersion breaking, it's boring, its piss poor game design, and it's a shameless suck up to the very small number of GTA fans that were allways complaining that people that played were not shooting everything in sight. A stupid reason to wreck a single player game.

Especially when the video game is based upon a table top game and now no longer resembles the tabletop game in the slightest.

Ironically, most of the GTA style fans who celebrated the game changes are already moving on. Many of their twitch streamers played through it once and moved on.

The influx of edgerunner show fans doesn't seem to have really appeared either, and ironically, from the reviews, many of the ones that did come were here for the netrunning not gun battles.

I'm not denying that in the mid 30's stealth netrunning is no longer a joke, but it shouldn't take until the mid levels for that to happen.
 
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You know what I found out.

Int 15/Body4 is a great build for the fist fight tournaments.
If you get Overclock with all health boosting perks for it, you can use it in the tournament fistfights to get health back quickly. If you get injured, just run around to increase the regeneration rate, while avoiding the enemy.

Use Body 4 to get all additional health regeneration perks (and you can easily remove them outside of tournaments).

Beaten all opponents (before the finale) this way, with optional Gorrila Arms to make fights last shorter.

To sum up, the Netrunner build can be good in fist fight tournaments. Something I was totally unaware of and not expecting.
 
Int 15/Body4 is a great build for the fist fight tournaments.
If you get Overclock with all health boosting perks for it, you can use it in the tournament fistfights to get health back quickly. If you get injured, just run around to increase the regeneration rate, while avoiding the enemy.
Clever! I need to borrow this strategy once I get around to doing those quests.
 
At first, I was worried that I will not have enough space when fighting Animal's champion, due to the small ring size, but it was actually big enough to run around when injured and keep avoiding his hits until regeneration or overlock effect can heal me.

I even entered that fight as a joke, since I missed equipping my gorilla arms prior to the fight, but was able to beat him. This was on Hard. Have not tried this tactic on very hard.
 
It is still possible to be stealthy. My method has been Sonic Shock as many enemies as I see, followed by contagion and then short circuit. The sonic shock keeps from being detected unless the contagion jumps on someone you didn't sonic shock, but if it's just like three gonks, no detection whatsoever and they're pretty dead. The ability to queue the hacks has been quite a lovely addition.
 
My method has been Sonic Shock as many enemies as I see, followed by contagion and then short circuit. The sonic shock keeps from being detected unless the contagion jumps on someone you didn't sonic shock, but if it's just like three gonks, no detection whatsoever and they're pretty dead.
I do this, too, except with Overheat as the third hack. It's really fun.

Apart from a civilian getting blasted by the explosion once (oops :LOL: ), it's worked perfectly.
 
it gets boring to just pull out a shotgun or stg and mow down everything in sight. Boring and tedious. I've never been able to get all the way through a GTA game because they are just. So. Boring.
So, casting contagion and killing everything without being seen or even any danger is not boring?
 
So, casting contagion and killing everything without being seen or even any danger is not boring?
Nope. It was incredibly fun.

That is why I personally logged over 400 hours playing cyberpunk on pc, and that was AFTER playing it a lot on the PlayStation. I was playing it on the PS4 after Sony pulled it from their store, that is how much I loved it.
Each time using basically the same stealthy net runner build.

Now I can’t even play the heist mission because every build I try feels terrible. Pistol, blades… Nothing feels enjoyable.
Maybe stealth net running gets fun again, i may never know because the road there just feels terrible to play vs how it was in 1.63.
I get it, they added a sonic shock “ram tax” now to hacks.
And I don’t even get to pay that until tier 3, until than forced combat, or run away after each hack, joy.
And all of this leads to over clocking ? There is no way I can do late game “netrunner only” build without it, right? Because on the face of it, that whole mechanic does not seem enjoyable either. Not that I will ever personally know that, I can’t see how I will ever bring myself to get that far.

None of this is enjoyable to me. I want my 1.63 combat back. It’s a single player game, to eliminate a gameplay style, on a paid dlc no less, was pretty bad game design. To me it feels like a bait and switch. If I had known how different the game was going to play, I may not have considered buying it.
 
So, casting contagion and killing everything without being seen or even any danger is not boring?
Early game, there's always danger. And there were spots and missions where it was really hard to get in range without being seen long enough to get contagion off.

Now unless you're in the 30's, have tier3 sonic shock and tier three contagion, you can't pull it off. you have to cast and run. which makes the game tedious. Or you have to mow every thing down with guns or blades which makes the game tedious.
 
I'm not sure I'd call it amazing, but each to their own. I think ultimately this has been 2.0's achilles heel: it's making some players absurdly happy and others frustrated. Very polarising (which, dear reader, isn't a great thing).

Did the changes introduce build depth in a meaningful way, in everyone's opinion?
Because honestly, almost every positive post about netrunning in 2.0 involves...

Early game, there's always danger. And there were spots and missions where it was really hard to get in range without being seen long enough to get contagion off.

Now unless you're in the 30's, have tier3 sonic shock and tier three contagion, you can't pull it off. you have to cast and run. which makes the game tedious. Or you have to mow every thing down with guns or blades which makes the game tedious.

"Having trouble early game? Get basic sonic shock, and a throwing knife or kill enemies with environmental items (falling crates, explosions)."
They're not wrong, but based on observing all the discussions, this is the prevailing "way to do early netrunning 2.0".

That is until you get a few levels and perks to unlock queues and overclock plus additional tiers in your cyberdeck.
Then, the overwhelmingly suggested/used stack is...

I definitely agree. My stealth netrunner is now in the high-40s level-wise and I'm generally leaning on the following combination:
  • T5+ cyberdeck: Tetratronic Rippler
  • Sonic Shock T5
  • Short Circuit T5
  • Synapse Burnout T5

... because ...

Single-life-bar enemies die directly to Sonic Shock followed by a single stack of Short Circuit. For double-life-bar enemies I usually follow the Short Circuit up with a stack of Cyberware Malfunction (to cheaply get the +40% damage on the Short Circuit). For triple-life-bar elite enemies I follow the Short Circuit up with a Synapse Burnout instead, which is sure to flatline them. I only ever use my 4th quickhack queue slot if I'm fighting a cyberpsycho.

... it works. It's an area clearing build.
With one twist on the formula being to make bombs out of enemies by using short circuit after poisoning them with contagion:

It is still possible to be stealthy. My method has been Sonic Shock as many enemies as I see, followed by contagion and then short circuit. The sonic shock keeps from being detected unless the contagion jumps on someone you didn't sonic shock, but if it's just like three gonks, no detection whatsoever and they're pretty dead. The ability to queue the hacks has been quite a lovely addition.

So, and genuinely no shade on anyone I've quoted above :) I mean that, the net sum of changes, which might have been implemented to push netrunners towards variety and away from a super-build, seems to be just that everyone's organically discovering a new super-build.

There will be outliers, exceptions, people playing netrunning with slightly different kitted decks, sure. Analysing posts here and a few other sites, the change in netrunning has introduced a shift from a "mixed-bag of cyberdeck but if you want to be OP go contagion, short circuit and suicide" netrunner to "mixed-bag cyberdeck but if you want to be OP go sonic shock, short circuit and malfunction".

Which is fine :)

In my opinion it doesn't feel any less broken than it might have before, just more laborious to get there maybe? So is that a gain, it being fractionally harder to achieve? I think that's a line call, and for me it begs the question: why change so much if the outcome is not substantially better. Just to "keep it fresh"?
 
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