Pacifist Play-through?

[Aver]

If we end up with non-lethal options in the game, I hope they don't receive any "special treatment" in terms of experience points or quest options.

In many games a stealth/non-lethal approach to a mission rewards the player with more XP than going in guns blazing and I find this approach to quest design & rewarding as totally skewed. If it's supposed to be open-world-sandbox-non-linear RPG, I want to "PLAY MY ROLE" as I see fit and not wonder "damn, if I don't kill these guards but crawl by them, I'm gonna get more XP".

Exactly. I didn't like it in HR, even tho my first play through was completely victimless. Same with hacking - for hacking doors you do get XP, but if you would take effort to find right code to open doors you wouldn't get any XP. In original DX XP system was much better - it didn't care how you achieved your goal, it did reward you for results.

 

[kilravok]

Exactly. I didn't like it in HR, even tho my first play through was completely victimless. Same with hacking - for hacking doors you do get XP, but if you would take effort to find right code to open doors you wouldn't get any XP. In original DX XP system was much better - it didn't care how you achieved your goal, it did reward you for results.

Theoretically, finding the code for the door should accumulate more XP just for all the puzzles and enemies one has to go throguh to find it....even if the act of opening the door does not gain xp

 

[username_3644576]

Theoretically, finding the code for the door should accumulate more XP just for all the puzzles and enemies one has to go throguh to find it....even if the act of opening the door does not gain xp

I beg to differ. This means the dev makes a judgment on which way of opening the door is more "worthy". In DX:HR this resulted in situations where perfectionist players would first convince someone to open the door for them and then still hack the door or crawl their way through the vents anyway. Not because they needed it but because it awarded them more experience. It was a major immersion breaker for me especially on my second run, where instead of my usual sneaky tactic I tried to go the brute force kill-em-all approach. I got much less experience and progressed more slowly and it really felt the game is punishing me for not playing the "right" way. Not fun at all.

Experience should be awarded for completing the task. It doesn't matter whether it's done by sneaking, hacking, talking or killing everyone. If you start awarding extra XP for any of these options, the player will be pushed towards that option and will feel penalized if he prefers to do it another way.

 

[kilravok]

I see you point. So it would be better if you get the XP for the first time you open an encrypted file or enter a room no matter how you mannaged to do that

 

[username_3644576]

I see you point. So it would be better if you get the XP for the first time you open an encrypted file or enter a room no matter how you mannaged to do that

Precisely. There should also be no extra XP for killing enemies while in the quest area or else players will feel they should clear it regardless of the actual method of completing the task.

 

[solidillusion]

I'm all for this being an option that players decide

 

[Garrison72]

I'm definitely in support of this, but I wonder how feasible it would be to make every boss fight passable without violence. Perhaps a 100% pacifist run should be exclusive certain roles, like Netrunner, Corp or Fixer.

 

[Sardukhar]

-spits-. Cyberpunk without violence. You people sicken me. Next you're going to want to finish the game without cyberware. Or bad hair! Or Trenchcoats!


Disgusting.

 

[kilravok]

Show me one corporate who has bad hair or wears a filthy trenchcoat

 

[Sardukhar]

Show me one corporate who has bad hair or wears a filthy trenchcoat

Who would play a corporate? They are practically zombies.

Also, any corporate outside his precious comfort zone for more than an hour. We had one guy with us on Mars! Hygiene was NOT our primary concern, heh. Man, did he complain a lot.

 

[gregski]

So far I'm not for a "forced" inclusion of 100% non-lethal playthrough possibility - that would take more time & resources to design the whole quest/story structure, maps etc. I just think that XP should be earned for reaching the quests goal no matter what means you chose. The decision should be made by the player according to his own playstyle philosophy, not according to the expected reward being bigger/smaller.

 

[Sardukhar]

The decision should be made by the player according to his own playstyle philosophy, not according to the expected reward being bigger/smaller.

This. I mean, I loved my melee non-lethal focussed playthrough in DEHR but I had to wonder if I'd have bothered without the mass XP I was awarded.

I think we can all agree on no forced boss fights, though, at least not if you don't do something to set it up that way first.

Cpunk doesn't really have "bosses" is the thing, though. No crazy HitPoints, no super-powered regeneration. Closest you might get for infantry would be ACPA and the smart call there is either a) run away or b)hack it. Unless you happen to be packing a serious set of tools. I.e. guns.

And then there is the argument that ACPA and all maximum Metal was stupidly OP anyway and it was jarring to the rest of the game.

ANyway. Boss fights, blech.

 

[username_3643957]

Sounds like that game Dishonored.....could work, it did for that game.

But this is CYBERPUNK, there are multiple roles and story elements implemented into this game that makes it the RPG experience it is. I just don't see stealth gameplay to that magnitude being plausible in the setting of Night City. Plus the game will have to be built to accommodate for that kind of gameplay, which I think would dumb down the AI and make it less interesting for those who want to go in with their guns, gadgets, or Cyber Plasma Cannon's blasting, and that's bad.

 

[username_3643957]

What gregski said^

 

[Overdosing]

I don't know about a pacifist walkthrough of the game. Although the game may be similar to Deus Ex, it's not Deus Ex.

 

[Cryddon]

This is supposed to be an RPG game (something like Skyrim), so how would it even be possible to finish the game without killing? It doesn't even apply to this kind of game and genre.

It's a stupid idea. I say again, STUPID; it only limits the game and its possibilities.
Game would become dull and boring. LIFELESS.

I want to play something full of action, full of shooting, full of life and full of fun.

I don't want to play another Dishonored or Deus Ex as pacifist.
I enjoyed those games 100x more when I started killing and slashing.

 

[kilravok]

This is supposed to be an RPG game (something like Skyrim), so how would it even be possible to finish the game without killing? It doesn't even apply to this kind of game and genre.

It's a stupid idea. I say again, STUPID; it only limits the game and its possibilities.
Game would become dull and boring. LIFELESS.

I want to play something full of action, full of shooting, full of life and full of fun.

I don't want to play another Dishonored or Deus Ex as pacifist.
I enjoyed those games 100x more when I started killing and slashing.

It might become boring and lifeless if you were forced to go pacifist, but it would be just as boring and lifeless if you were forced to kill.....the fun comes from having the choice to go either way or anything in between.

 

[Cryddon]

By asking for something that we already know and understand is just silly. It would mean changing the whole game-mechanic, quests, NPC behavior and whatnot, only to satisfy this one need. I don't want that. I want them to come up with something new and fresh that could end up being this one greatness we all seem to seek.

 

[111elf.239]

This is supposed to be an RPG game (something like Skyrim), so how would it even be possible to finish the game without killing? It doesn't even apply to this kind of game and genre.

It's a stupid idea. I say again, STUPID; it only limits the game and its possibilities.
Game would become dull and boring. LIFELESS.

I want to play something full of action, full of shooting, full of life and full of fun.

I don't want to play another Dishonored or Deus Ex as pacifist.
I enjoyed those games 100x more when I started killing and slashing.

As far as I know Skyrim can be completed without killing anyone. Which imho adds to it's greatness - it just offers so many ways to play it. Almost all Fallout games can be played as pacifist - you can't really describe them as dull, boring or lifeless, right? Deus Ex and Dishonored have a lot of rpg elements as well - at least when it comes to giving players tons of choices of how to play. And they're among the most brilliant games as well.

To sum it up I'd just say it's all about offering players different ways to approach things. And I don't think you would have to worry that your game experience would suffer from it

 

[gm2020]

There are some situations you cannot talk yourself out of, and there are some enemies that you do -not- want to leave alive behind you. To do that will get you or possibly someone behind you killed. A LOT of gangs now take their honor seriously and being dissed by someone means they have to kill and/or main said person to get their honor back. Or a corporate that is crooked, leaving him or her alive behind you could mean that that corp is now free to enact vengeance on -you- and your family/friends. Trying to not kill everyone that is trying to kill you might seem great, but if the game is realistic, it could be a very stupid move that will come back to haunt you. Most gangers and boostergangs in CP are of the violent type that do not back down for any reason, especially when they outnumber you. A dead enemy isn't going to come back and haunt you.

I can see where a non-lethal (using drugs, pressure points and such) could and would be desired. not every mission needs to leave a trail of body bags, but by the same measure, there are times that it's required. It's hard to take an assassination contract and not kill the person to complete it when the goal is to kill said person. For me, CP is about doing gray things. Not morally good or white, but gray to black to survive. It's the 'edge' of CP that I like. You're not playing a white knight paladin or a noble warrior like in other D&D games, but someone that lives a gritty dangerous life who is struggling to just survive in the world of 2020 or 2077. that means you do things that you might not like, but are necessary to live.