Phantom Liberty - The story just doesn't... work for me? (some spoilers included)

[Bearded Geek]

The point of Cyberpunk is that there are no happy endings in life. All the options you have are bad but you can only pick the least worst..

Cyberpunk THIS game maybe, not Cyberpunk the Genre or even Cyberpunk the Tabletop, The genre are full of happy or at least pretty good endings, and so is the tabletop. I am not sure where this (almost a meme) quote comes from but it is simply not true.

Post automatically merged: Nov 7, 2023

True, but that's why I like to think of Phantom Liberty as one big side quest. It's not really a part of the main story, after all you have several opportunities to skip the whole thing (e.g. telling Myers and Reed that you refuse to help them in the apartment) and leave only the side content.

Isn't that how it is supposed to be viewed? It IS a large side quest. like most DLCs for most CRPGs are, be it Nukaworld for Fallout 4, Phantom Liberty for this game, Dragonborn for Skyrim, Tales of the Sword Coast for the original Baldur's Gate, Fate Of Atlantis for AC Odyssey, etc etc.

 

[ragstog]

While I had several problems with the A or B dialog options in the DLC, I have the feeling you are missing some of the background lore of the game.

Night City is an independent state - it literally has border control between it's region and the NUSA. Myers has no authority in NC, if I got that correctly. Sure, NC government/politicians would help her, at least to dodge a diplomatic sh*tstorm.
She, and later Reed actually need to rely on V, and they know that. V has connections in NC, free movement in and out of Dogtown. Whatever they think about him/her, they have to avoid alienating him - this especially goes for finding Songbird, and V's connection for her. Behaving like a**holes with V would've made them look like idiots. It would have contradicted their interests. (I'm talking about behavior, not what they think!)

With that being said, Myers's character was just a cliché corrupt politician, who will act righteous while they can, but will use any method to save their a**es. My problem was how the GAMEPLAY was forcing her to be seen (by the player) as a girlboss. She drops V on his/her a**. After the explosion at the plane, she gets up first - even though she was closer to the blast. V can throw around people and rip doors from their places, but will need her help at almost every strength requiring action!
Also, she does all this and the combats, running and rolling IN F*CKING HIGHHEELS! (This was more likely just a design oversight, still annoying.)

What we got at the oath is the option to create V's stance - for either option - on the unification/NUSA government topic. It's also game lore that unification - as the Unification War - is a topic that has both supporters and opponents in Night City. V's opinion on this topic - as far as I can remember - wasn't mentioned in the Base game. You basically decide what he/she thinks about those things there.

I agree that this topic could have been explored far better (and for me, would have been more interesting than what we got), but the oath part wasn't as screwed up as other parts - in my opinion, of course!

V's behavior in the DLC is problematic, on that I agree with you. While this govenment/spy is totally new to them, they could have had more options to remain skeptical! His/her attitude towards Songbird up to that point you mentioned felt soo forced for me, I couldn't wait for her to go away.

This is my take on what you wrote (hopefully I managed to point out relevant things), but, by all means, feel free to disagree

You're probably right about the lore side of it, I haven't dived into where NC fits in in the world etc.

I pretty much agree with everything you're saying too,

PL was getting under the skin from the start, but that interaction was just the one that broke it for me.

 

[Bearded Geek]

What we got at the oath is the option to create V's stance - for either option - on the unification/NUSA government topic. It's also game lore that unification - as the Unification War - is a topic that has both supporters and opponents in Night City. V's opinion on this topic - as far as I can remember - wasn't mentioned in the Base game. You basically decide what he/she thinks about those things there.

It is a roleplay issue for sure, I have a hard time seeing a Nomad V being in favor of an unified USA again for example, while a Streetkid probably doesn't give a frakk, and a Corpo? As long as V was employed their view on the matter would probably be identical to Arasaka's view on the matter (since Arasaka is their employer and supported the Free States with arms and money), but after that I think a Corpo would be the most likely to be in favor.

So yeah having the devs point out a specific stance would be... weird.

 

[warlock75]

I think a Corpo would be the most likely to be in favor.

I've gone the other way with my current Corpo, she's seen the dark side of corporations and was lucky to come out alive, so now she's completely anti them, using her knowledge against them.

I've gone the opposite way in a previous playthrough, where she wanted to get back into the lifestyle, but this one seems to make more sense.

 

[strangerr3]

I`m still playing PL and havent touched the endings, but up to this point I can definitely sense that this piece is very much disconected from main game. Main issue I have is main plot which is a bit too much for a street merc - it is certainly interesting and greatly executed, but I do have problem when comparing NUSA president rescue mission to most stuff from base game. Night City which was crime city before expansion now feels like a holiday resort with brutal Dogtown by its gates. I think it would work more if Dogtown was some far away colony and not something which overshadows both NC and Pacifica. For some reason its quite hard for me to go back to some more basic quests like Aldecaldos or just regular gigs after spending few hours fighting to president life.

It is a great expansion, but for me it doesnt blend well with a rest of a game. I have a feeling that next time I play it, I will keep PL waiting until last part of a game.

 

[ragstog]

It is a roleplay issue for sure, I have a hard time seeing a Nomad V being in favor of an unified USA again for example, while a Streetkid probably doesn't give a frakk, and a Corpo? As long as V was employed their view on the matter would probably be identical to Arasaka's view on the matter (since Arasaka is their employer and supported the Free States with arms and money), but after that I think a Corpo would be the most likely to be in favor.

So yeah having the devs point out a specific stance would be... weird.

I'd say regardless of V's poltical stance, he has bigger fish to fry.

The core game story is V desperately trying to find the means to survive.

In all of V's interactions he is pragmatic, because he has to be, generally he cant afford to be idealistic.

That's why it's so strikingly off that the president would ask him for allegiance. Supporting her and unification, in a broad sense, is an idealistic pursuit that he doesn't have time for and she should know it.

Also throughout the whole story there is rarely any reward for loyalty:
Corpo V is cut off and kicked out.
Dexter deShawn betrays V, shoots him in the head...
Goro is betrayed by Arasaka - He's a company man and probably made fun of a bit for his naivety.
Yorinobu betrays his father
Panam is betrayed by Nash in her first mission
Meredith stout knows her survival depends on recovering the stolen militech gear and is under no illusion her company would look after her.
It goes on...

Given this nature of the NC, where loyalty is never rewarded, it's an insult to V's intelligence to suggest swearing allegiance.

Myers should have deduced by that stage the V is a brutally effective killer, he's armed to the teeth with high end gear that he couldn't afford from an average day job. He must be a mercenary and an underworld figure who has seen his fair share of deceit and betrayal.

Surely she wouldn't assume such a character would be honorable and trustworthy without a selfish motive.

It's understandable that she'd want to recruit him for his skills, but wouldn't she expect that type of person to respond better to money, or some other sort of leverage, than a call to patriotism. A politician shouldn't be that naive. It's her literal day job.

So she knows she'd be foolish to trust him, and he knows he'd be foolish to trust her.

The whole dialogue sequence is absurd for all who are involved.

 

[warlock75]

It's understandable that she'd want to recruit him for his skills, but wouldn't she expect that type of person to respond better to money, or some other sort of leverage, than a call to patriotism.

But V is never recruited, the oath is offered as a joke. Myers needs V to be on record so Reed would be more accepting. As the conversation goes, "Wait, I'm an FIA agent now?". "Would you feel more like one if you took the oath?". And you decide if you want to or not. Either way it's not required.

 

[Zyad_Apo]

But V is never recruited

V is a temporary asset to be used, even if you don't take the oath Myers put up a file for V to be recognized by Reed as an ally to work with.