Plot holes and inconsistencies (spoilers)

[Bloodartist]

There are some story plot holes that have bothered me in game, and I'm sure there are more that I can remember right now. I thought there could be a thread where we discuss these and forumites own findings. Im sure most are simply oopsies from the devs.

1. Leaving Konpeki Plaza
I start with the one that has troubled me the most, and which always slaps me on every playthrough:

- When V and Jackie limp to the Delamain cab after the disastrous heist, Jackie orders Delamain to drive. Delamain answers: "Certainly, mr. Welles".
The problem: our dynamic duo was at Konpeki Plaza under false identities, Jackie's being "Ramon Victorino". The whole trip including the hotel stay was scheduled under the same false identities. How did Delamain know Jackies real name? This always felt surreal to me, especially considering the mood of the whole scene.

For those thinking "perhaps Delamain figures it out in the beginning when it validates the identities of its passengers?" But why wouldn't V and Jackie use false identities right then and there? Also, Jackie doesn't even connect with the cab, its just V who does. Also: Delamain actually ADDRESSES V and Jackie using the false names while travelling to Konpeki plaza.

2. "Judy's gift"

If you have finished her story, Judy (I dont know does any other romantic interest do this?) leaves a little something to V's apartment at Megabuilding 10 at one point.
The problem: I don't remember giving her keys to my apartment. How did she get in? Judy specifically gives HER apartment access to V in a special scene, but V doesn't return the favor. It would make sense for V to do so, but there really isn't any moment where we timeskip or relinguish control of the character, so no opportunity to do so without the player knowing. Judy also never visits the apartment any other time. You'd think that she would be there more often if she really cared about V. (She does)

Admittedly: Viktor Vector does the same thing even earlier (dropping some of the player rewards in there and saying so in a text message). But Viktor is V's old acquantaince, ripperdoc, and may have had access given to him before the start of the game proper.

I had another thing in mind from Phantom liberty but I've forgotten it just now. Hopefully it comes back to me.
What kind of inconsistencies have you found?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

How did Delamain know Jackies real name?

By the connexion to their personal links. Both connect, but as the camera lock up to your view, you don't see Jackie.
It's obvious in french, but I guess also in english, because Delamain said : "please proceed to connect your personal links"
> "links" with "s" which I guess, imply at minimum two link (one for each person)
Beside during the ride to the konpeki plaza, V call Jackie by his name and Jackie does the same. So unless Delamain is deaf, he cannot ignore that V is called "V" and Jackie, "Jackie"

2. "Judy's gift"

If you have finished her story, Judy (I dont know does any other romantic interest do this?) leaves a little something to V's apartment at Megabuilding 10 at one point.
The problem: I don't remember giving her keys to my apartment. How did she get in? Judy specifically gives HER apartment access to V in a special scene, but V doesn't return the favor. It would make sense for V to do so, but there really isn't any moment where we timeskip or relinguish control of the character, so no opportunity to do so without the player knowing. Judy also never visits the apartment any other time. You'd think that she would be there more often if she really cared about V. (She does)

Admittedly: Viktor Vector does the same thing even earlier (dropping some of the player rewards in there and saying so in a text message). But Viktor is V's old acquantaince, ripperdoc, and may have had access given to him before the start of the game proper.

Well... a bit weird
But even more weird, Meredith also let a box (gift for finding the mole if V is nomad) in V's apartment at the beginning of Act 2. But well, at this point, Meredith is not close, not even a friend, barely a relationship at best

 

[Bloodartist]

By the connexion to their personal links. Both connect, but as the camera lock up to your view, you don't see Jackie.
It's obvious in french, but I guess also in english, because Delamain said : "please proceed to connect your personal links"
> "links" with "s" which I guess, imply at minimum two link (one for each person)
Beside during the ride to the konpeki plaza, V call Jackie by his name and Jackie does the same. So unless Delamain is deaf, he cannot ignore that V is called "V" and Jackie, "Jackie"

Even if there is some far-fetched explanation to it, it still counts as a jarring cosmetic error in my opinion. It wouldve been far better for Delamain to simply continue acknowledging the secret identities whom excelsior package had been reserved to. I mean, if a client wants you to call them something, why not do that?

 

[AlienSpaceBats]

In 2077 the Aldecaldos are a recent arrival to the Badlands, Panam tells us Saul led the Nomads to California with a promise of change. Going by the time we first see Panam in the Afterlife and her bust-up with the family, they likely arrived not long before V's story starts.
During the conversation with Rogue where we prep for Ghost Town Panam is brough up as someone who knows [the area] Jackson Plains.

Panam also talks of Rocky Ridge and seems intimate with its history even though it was likely abandoned before her arrival to the area.

Later, during Riders On The Storm Saul and Panam talk about the Ingalls and the Biotechnica offer. Again, didn't this all happen prior?

Just minor inconsistencies that turned to shower thoughts.

 

[Bloodartist]

Beside during the ride to the konpeki plaza, V call Jackie by his name and Jackie does the same.

I am fairly certain this isn't true btw, but I didn't have a savegame handy just before the car trip, so I couldn't confirm it quickly. This has to wait til later.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Even if there is some far-fetched explanation to it, it still counts as a jarring cosmetic error in my opinion. It wouldve been far better for Delamain to simply continue acknowledging the secret identities whom excelsior package had been reserved to. I mean, if a client wants you to call them something, why not do that?

The false identities are only for the konpeki, it doesn't matter for V and Jackie to hide their "true" identities to Delamain.
Delamain won't share these infos anyway (that's the point of T-Bug). And beside he already know the destinations if things turn right or if things turn wrong...

I am fairly certain this isn't true btw, but I didn't have a savegame handy just before the car trip, so I couldn't confirm it quickly. This has to wait til later.

See yourself
But here are two :
"Dunno Jack... kinda feels like you're losin'..."
"Lemme explain somethin' to you, V..."

Spoiler: Right time

You could also notice that V and Jackie talk about Dex, T-Bug and many things about the heist during the ride...

 

[0248991]

In 2077 the Aldecaldos are a recent arrival to the Badlands

Panam also talks of Rocky Ridge and seems intimate with its history

during Riders On The Storm Saul and Panam talk about the Ingalls and the Biotechnica offer. Again, didn't this all happen prior?

Again, didn't this all happen prior?

This is easily explainable, isn't it? - Aldecaldos were in Badlands before.
That's how Panam would know all the stuff.
And I am not sure about the deal with Biotechnica - I would assume it was on a table since they arrived (which could be why Panam left them ), that is before the Riders On The Storm quest - that's why they were able to mention it.

Post automatically merged: Oct 23, 2023

The problem: I don't remember giving her keys to my apartment.

Hey,
it might be because the apartment is rented - it's not V's - and it's part of a megabuilding - a microculture on its own.
You see, there's a common fitness ground, gun shop, food shops,... - even food machines in apartments,...
So, I would assume there is some sort of delivery service - owners have key duplicates/digital access and deliver them into apartments.
And one might not even need an address - delivery could be linked to one's phone number - because future, you know

 

[yabab]

There are some story plot holes that have bothered me in game, and I'm sure there are more that I can remember right now. I thought there could be a thread where we discuss these and forumites own findings. Im sure most are simply oopsies from the devs.

1. Leaving Konpeki Plaza
I start with the one that has troubled me the most, and which always slaps me on every playthrough:

- When V and Jackie limp to the Delamain cab after the disastrous heist, Jackie orders Delamain to drive. Delamain answers: "Certainly, mr. Welles".
The problem: our dynamic duo was at Konpeki Plaza under false identities, Jackie's being "Ramon Victorino". The whole trip including the hotel stay was scheduled under the same false identities. How did Delamain know Jackies real name? This always felt surreal to me, especially considering the mood of the whole scene.

For those thinking "perhaps Delamain figures it out in the beginning when it validates the identities of its passengers?" But why wouldn't V and Jackie use false identities right then and there? Also, Jackie doesn't even connect with the cab, its just V who does. Also: Delamain actually ADDRESSES V and Jackie using the false names while travelling to Konpeki plaza.

2. "Judy's gift"
View attachment 11371174
If you have finished her story, Judy (I dont know does any other romantic interest do this?) leaves a little something to V's apartment at Megabuilding 10 at one point.
The problem: I don't remember giving her keys to my apartment. How did she get in? Judy specifically gives HER apartment access to V in a special scene, but V doesn't return the favor. It would make sense for V to do so, but there really isn't any moment where we timeskip or relinguish control of the character, so no opportunity to do so without the player knowing. Judy also never visits the apartment any other time. You'd think that she would be there more often if she really cared about V. (She does)

Admittedly: Viktor Vector does the same thing even earlier (dropping some of the player rewards in there and saying so in a text message). But Viktor is V's old acquantaince, ripperdoc, and may have had access given to him before the start of the game proper.

I had another thing in mind from Phantom liberty but I've forgotten it just now. Hopefully it comes back to me.
What kind of inconsistencies have you found?

1. The trip is not under false names. Jackie himself complains that Delamain didn't accept to take a job from him earlier.
2. Judy is a techie, Tech is used to bypass door locks in the game's mechanics.

 

[warlock75]

The problem: I don't remember giving her keys to my apartment. How did she get in?

That happens a lot, it seems if you know someone they have instant access to your apartment.

One that really baffled me was Alex leaving a BD of the Lizzy performance in there. Like, no, get out.

They have drop points for fixers, why not do the same thing if they want to give something to V, stick it in a drop point.

 

[Draconifors]

That happens a lot, it seems if you know someone they have instant access to your apartment.

Yeah, that definitely seems to be the case.

One that really baffled me was Alex leaving a BD of the Lizzy performance in there. Like, no, get out.

In my apartment, someone left a shard on the computer desk, about a topic I know I've heard mentioned by some NPC I've talked to, but I can't remember who or where. Was rather puzzled to find it. Still am. I know I could just look it up, but I don't want to. I like the mystery.

 

[TheLocalHentai]

Delamain is a bro and is hired for that discretion. So Delamain KNOWS the two's true identity but also knows that his clients are hiding their identities.

As for the apartment stuff. I would guess that they ask whomever's in charge permission (like that dude that had those nuclear rods and was in the basement fixing stuff) and whomever that is just drops that things in there. Meredith's gift is also inside the apartment. It wouldn't be too farfetched for someone overseeing a megablock to do such things, better than leaving it outside and getting stolen by some druggies.

 

[larrackell]

I don't remember giving her keys to my apartment. How did she get in?

Judy's a techie. I don't know about the others getting in, but she's capable of breaking in on her own, as seen in her personal story line when we're going to talk to Maiko. It's not really a stretch to imagine she'd have no issue getting into V's apartment.

 

[koalahugs]

Yeah the everyone-can-access-V's-apartment thing has always been a bit puzzling.

Regarding Judy - I would just assume V called her and gave access at some point. As for when that would happen, I just pick a time you fast travel or time-skipped after Laguna Bend. Those are all mini-periods when V could be doing all sorts of things... eating a sandwich, calling a friend, doing a poop, telling-Takemura-you're-not-actually-gonna-see-him-and-his-pal-after-sundown-today-but-sometime-later-instead, etc.

Fast travel and time-skips helps me head-canon a lot of the inconsistencies out of the story, but I guess it depends on the severity of the plot hole.

The worst one for me is the fact that V doesn't try to find any experts to look at the blueprints Hellman gives you for the Relic. It's presented as a plot device served on a narrative platter: "Here, have X; now you need to find Y". It's actually telegraphed to the player TWICE in that one conversation. But V never even tries to find anyone to look at the blueprints.

 

[Bloodartist]

The worst one for me is the fact that V doesn't try to find any experts to look at the blueprints Hellman gives you for the Relic. It's presented as a plot device served on a narrative platter: "Here, have X; now you need to find Y". It's actually telegraphed to the player TWICE in that one conversation. But V never even tries to find anyone to look at the blueprints.

The main story is the absolute worst when it comes to common sense. Theres massive amounts of silly mumbo-jumbo because certain things need to happen, and the explanations get more ludicrous every iteration. (admittedly, not as bad as Starfields beginning, but still)

But I don't wanna delve into that since its a neverending quagmire. Ive made my opinions known about that for years.

Rather, Im looking for individual, contained plot-holes and inconsistencies.

ps. As to the delamain sequence, I never chose those options so I guess I didnt hear them say those lines ever.

 

[LadyMiseryAli]

Judy isn't the only love interest who goes to your apartment. Kerry does the same thing. He leaves a message on V's computer and leaves a record player behind that plays his cover of Chippin In. One can assume that V gave a key to their romantic partner at some point.

Also, Delamain probably knows who the boys REALLY are through Dex. Was probably briefed on who would be riding in his cab that night. Simple explanation.

As for the blueprints plot hole...that is an ACTUAL pothole that could have been avoided in some way.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

If I remember, the only time the Relic blueprints are mentioned afterward, it's with Hanako (Proxy/Phone depending of the order you completed main quests) when they talk about Hellman, but that's all. When V says something like "I managed to find Hellman, and also the Relic blueprints" and she answers "That will be very useful, even more with Hellman alive".
So I assume, Arasaka maybe use the blueprints in the Devil ending...

 

[AlienSpaceBats]

I remembered a big one.

When you meet Hanako at Embers she says "did you bring Soulkiller, as we agreed you would?"
What? We didn't agree to that, Arasaka has Soulkiller.

V even carries on the convo; "course I didn't bring Soulkiller"

The conversation with the doll/proxy at the motel doesn't even mention this. The agreement was to get V to Mikoshi in return for helping Hanako prove Yorinobu's treason.

I wonder if this points to a previous draft of the story where instead of the Relic, the Heist involved klepping Soulkiller instead.

Of course I might be talking out of my backside.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

The conversation with the doll/proxy at the motel doesn't even mention this. The agreement was to get V to Mikoshi in return for helping Hanako prove Yorinobu's treason.

If you didn't find Alt at this moment, yes. Hanako asks V to get Soulkiller, because even if it's an Arasaka tech, Yorinobu keep a (very) limited access to it, so her hands are tied. And so, V agreed to "search" how to get Soulkiller.
If you already found Alt, V simply answer to Hanako that she found Alt (THE Alt^^) who use is own modified version of Soulkiller (which is quite a "lie" too, Alt planed to use Soulkiller in Mikoshi^^)