Proposal: Secondary operating systems

[BeanstalkerLMK]

I think it's kind of a bummer that you have to decide between a combat-related OS and cyberdecks, which are not only versatile and (imo) fun, but also required to utilize an entire attribute and its perk tree. Plus, they are a very nice complement for the stealth aspects of the Cool tree - which is also a gun tree that likes Sandy.

Now, obviously ideas like allowing hot-swapping your OS would just be utterly broken. But you don't actually need to allow melting the brains of everyone in a building through the security cams without ever setting foot in it, as a fully kitted out netrunner can.

But what about allowing you to install a severely nerfed ("secondary") version of an OS in parallel to a primary OS? Easiest implementation would be to simply only allow tier 1 gear in that slot. Or you could go case by case, e.g. restricting what quickhacks the secondary cyberdeck can use, impose a hefty penalty on cooldown/duration/slowdown for a secondary Sandevistan, and so on.

Thoughts?

 

[Netrunner2go]

If i remember right this was one of the first pc-mods made…

consoleros like myself sadly never got the chance to dbl equip th OS… but tbh I never saw the need for that as well normally I would say it’s to op but than again even a single sandy/berserk is op on its own since PL… so yeah wouldn’t be an argument at all anymore ^^‘

 

[Tarille]

A more straightforward solution would be to make Sandy and Berserk basic decks. Meaning they have a few slots for Quickhacks and rudementary amount of RAM (Enough to get out the occasional control quickhack and to mess around with enemies while stealthing).

Can even bump up the passives of the real decks if necessary, less "If it's the 3rd Tuesday of the month, between 1:30am and 2:30pm and you've seen a cat today, get 5% more damage on your quickhacks" and more about creating a playstyle with each deck (Sort of like the one that is all about spreading quickhacks around)

Maybe even make a couple of them for melee/gun builds that don't want to just use Berserk/Sandy all the time...

 

[Netrunner2go]

A more straightforward solution would be to make Sandy and Berserk basic decks. Meaning they have a few slots for Quickhacks and rudementary amount of RAM (Enough to get out the occasional control quickhack and to mess around with enemies while stealthing).

Maybe even make a couple of them for melee/gun builds that don't want to just use Berserk/Sandy all the time...

yeah that would be cool - i would like slots for control/stealth hacks on them as well

 

[Zem]

I think it's kind of a bummer that you have to decide between a combat-related OS and cyberdecks

This sort of forced trade-off is actually a good thing in most RPGs. It leads to more replay value if you can't just do everything on one character.

Stealthing without a deck is actually kind of a fun challenge. The new Cool tree might be a complement for a netrunner, but it's practically essential if you want to reasonably stealth with a combat OS. I prefer Sandy for this though. Berserk is pretty much only good for one thing, but a Sandy can be used for stealth headshot kills in an on/off fashion so as not to consume the whole cooldown for one enemy (unless it's a REALLY tough enemy). It can also be used in combo with camo Shinobi Sprint to zip past enemies and cameras.

Cool's "Gag Order" perk is a must-have since you can't toss out a Sonic Shock to prevent alarms when faced with an enemy that needs more than one silenced headshot to take down.

Recon grenades, if you've never used them, are great for luring enemies out of place for silent takedowns or for ghosting past them.

Kiroshi "The Oracle" optics are well worth the 10 Cyberware cost to scan and mark enemies through walls since you can't Ping and mark everyone on the map like you can with a deck.

Cyberdecks almost make things too easy considering how much stuff there is to hack/manipulate.

 

[Netrunner2go]

Stealthing without a deck is actually kind of a fun challenge.

just with berserk imo. sandivista/camo combo is kinda op and not really a challenge in stealthing around... ^^

 

[Zem]

just with berserk imo. sandivista/camo combo is kinda op and not really a challenge in stealthing around... ^^

Well I didn't say it was Dark Souls or anything but compared to Netrunning, just crossing the street is more dangerous.

With even a Tier 1 deck you can ping and mark every threat, every enemy, every automated security device, in a huge range. Later on you can even hack them through the walls. Without ping, the range of Oracle optics is pretty limited so you can't be sure you have marked every enemy in a large area or noticed every camera, mine, or turret. So you have to at least be a bit more observant and cautious.

Makes me think of a potentially interesting self-imposed challenge actually: Never use target mark. This more than anything lets you keep track of literally everything in a huge area through any obstructions, permanently. Without it, you'd have to refresh your view of things periodically by re-pinging and relying on the duration of it to get an idea where everyone is and how they are moving. Those without a deck would only see what they have line of sight to or what is within the relatively limited range of Oracle.

 

[BeanstalkerLMK]

A more straightforward solution would be to make Sandy and Berserk basic decks. Meaning they have a few slots for Quickhacks and rudementary amount of RAM (Enough to get out the occasional control quickhack and to mess around with enemies while stealthing).

Can even bump up the passives of the real decks if necessary, less "If it's the 3rd Tuesday of the month, between 1:30am and 2:30pm and you've seen a cat today, get 5% more damage on your quickhacks" and more about creating a playstyle with each deck (Sort of like the one that is all about spreading quickhacks around)

Maybe even make a couple of them for melee/gun builds that don't want to just use Berserk/Sandy all the time...

Really like these ideas!

Post automatically merged: Jan 10, 2024

Well I didn't say it was Dark Souls or anything but compared to Netrunning, just crossing the street is more dangerous.

With even a Tier 1 deck you can ping and mark every threat, every enemy, every automated security device, in a huge range. Later on you can even hack them through the walls. Without ping, the range of Oracle optics is pretty limited so you can't be sure you have marked every enemy in a large area or noticed every camera, mine, or turret. So you have to at least be a bit more observant and cautious.

Makes me think of a potentially interesting self-imposed challenge actually: Never use target mark. This more than anything lets you keep track of literally everything in a huge area through any obstructions, permanently. Without it, you'd have to refresh your view of things periodically by re-pinging and relying on the duration of it to get an idea where everyone is and how they are moving. Those without a deck would only see what they have line of sight to or what is within the relatively limited range of Oracle.

I'd definitely nerf Ping-highlighting if the cyberdeck was used as a secondary device. Frankly, I'd also nerf it, period. Make netrunners work a little harder by at least forcing them to lure and bait enemies into security camera view at least.

Post automatically merged: Jan 10, 2024

This sort of forced trade-off is actually a good thing in most RPGs. It leads to more replay value if you can't just do everything on one character.

First of, I specifically, explicitly did not ask to do "everything", so I'll thank you not to rip my quotes out of context.

Second, this is true for some RPGs, while others encourage you to mix and match, and take a jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none approach if you like. Based on how the attribute, perk tree and skill systems are designed, CP2077 squarely falls into the latter category, for pretty much any gameplay styles except netrunning. It presents you with a situation with multiple paths and possible approaches (particularly during gigs), and leaves you to figure out which path you take based on how high each of your skills is - a style of RPG design pioneered by Deus Ex.

So your suggestions for cyberdeck-free stealth, while appreciated and fun-sounding, are beside the point.

(Aside: If you wanted to closely adhere to the Deus Ex design style, cyberware was sometimes used as an alternative to picking up certain skills (e.g. Aqualung augment instead of swimming skill. The CP2077 equivalent would be that you'd need EITHER a significant investment in the Intelligence tree OR the cyberdeck OS to accomplish hacking-related tasks)

 

[Zem]

First of, I specifically, explicitly did not ask to do "everything", so I'll thank you not to rip my quotes out of context.

Take some of your own advice. You're reading too much into one word.

But you said it yourself better later on: Jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none. To truly fit that I'd say a combo Sandy/Cyberdeck shouldn't be top tier at either function. Mid-tier at best. Easiest way to do that would be Netrunner2Go's idea of just having combo cyberware that can slot quickhacks. You'd simply only create such combos with mid-tier stats at best for each of the two functions.

You'd then have an interesting choice to make. Tier 5++ Apogee Sandy or this combo things that's middling as a Sandy but also sports blue tier quickhacks? Hmmm....

 

[BeanstalkerLMK]

Take some of your own advice. You're reading too much into one word.

But you said it yourself better later on: Jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none. To truly fit that I'd say a combo Sandy/Cyberdeck shouldn't be top tier at either function. Mid-tier at best. Easiest way to do that would be Netrunner2Go's idea of just having combo cyberware that can slot quickhacks. You'd simply only create such combos with mid-tier stats at best for each of the two functions.

You'd then have an interesting choice to make. Tier 5++ Apogee Sandy or this combo things that's middling as a Sandy but also sports blue tier quickhacks? Hmmm....

In my opinion, if the cyberdeck functionality is reaaaaally barebones (say, 2 quickhack slots, 3 RAM, gray tier quickhacks only), there's no need to nerf the Sandy functionality. But that's not a hill I'm going to die on.

I will say that the proposed changes should be as simple to implement as possible, as I feel like we probably won't be getting any major redesigns at this point. So having multiple combo-OS variations with different trade-off levels might not be in the cards.