Ridicilous attribute requirement scaling (body 17 at level 30) forces missions to be soft-locked

[Itio]

The new attribute scaling system now forces certain missions (this is the door in "Gimme Danger") to be soft-locked unless you invest heavily into attributes that you don't want. I understand the intent behind it, but the scaling level is completely insane. Body 17 at level 30, when I only got one skill that high? I don't even want to invest in body!

Yes, I know you can bypass this door by going through the window, but I had to specifically google this after being stuck for ages. Point is, this isn't just one mission -- it's also every door, conversation and device.

The scaling should be toned down considerably.

 

[Crimsomrider]

My only hope is that CDPR realizes attribute scaling was a mistake and removes it, leaving just the regular attribute check curve that is based behind it.

They had a wonderfully proper and immersive attribute check experience before 2.0, so I have no clue why they decided attributes scaling was the proper way to somewhat "sandbox" the game and prolong its replayability, especially because by doing so they completely contradicted the whole purpose of having increased level caps.

 

[koalahugs]

Yeah, I think having some caps on some of the skill checks would be a bit better. I have to say though, I've adapted to the new system and now prioritise dialogue checks over environmental ones, which works well for me (despite making a thread elsewhere moaning about it ). Requires a bit of planning though.

 

[Tarille]

I kind of like the way that your build changes how you approach things. For example, a Body build just rips through the front door while a Tech build opens the side door.

The main issue is simply how it's implemented.

- Certain stats (Cool and Reflexes) have few to no stat checks. So if your build prioritized those... You're SOL.

- The game is inconsistent in what constitutes a stat check. Sometimes it's just some optional loot. Sometimes it's one of the main ways to actually enter a mission area.

- The game doesn't always provide multiple options for the same goal. It's normally like 1 stat check and if you don't have it, sucks to be you.

One of the few times I can recall even having multiple stat options is that gig in Watson where you rescue the bloke from the Tyger Claws dojo, where you can sneak in the back by opening the door with a Body check or opening a window on the roof with a Tech check (But if you're an Int, Reflex or Cool build you either have to sneak through the entire dojo or fail the optional objective to not raise the alarm as you kill your way through)

- Stat checks are a good way of leveling up skills, which becomes harder when they scale if you're simply trying to get some of the global buffs from a particular skill (Like, getting the melee damage buffs from Solo. Getting the RAM bonuses from Netrunner. Or simply getting the talent points). Though this is more due to the way the Skills are implemented and the jank that is skill shards...

So yeah, with their current implementation they could really do with toning them down and/or adding more stat check bonuses to implants. Like, there's the Gorilla Arms that provides a bonus to Body check requirements but nothing else.

Not sure why there can't be Int check bonuses on some of the frontal cortex implants, tech check bonuses on skeletal/integumentary implants, cool check bonuses on hands/face implants and reflex check bonuses on nervous system implants.

 

[yabab]

The only thing they need to fix is the money scaling, which is full of bugs. The rest is fine. That door is designed to be used by a Body build, all other builds should look for the window. The game is part immersive sim, anyway. If they remove that aspect, it would severly weaken the game design.

I kind of like the way that your build changes how you approach things.

That's it.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

The new attribute scaling system now forces certain missions (this is the door in "Gimme Danger") to be soft-locked unless you invest heavily into attributes that you don't want. I understand the intent behind it, but the scaling level is completely insane. Body 17 at level 30, when I only got one skill that high? I don't even want to invest in body!

Yes, I know you can bypass this door by going through the window, but I had to specifically google this after being stuck for ages. Point is, this isn't just one mission -- it's also every door, conversation and device.

The scaling should be toned down considerably.

View attachment 11380018

Ok, I agree with level scalling on attribute checks, it's bad and I hope they will change it.
But... This door is a really bad example in your case. With 4 in Body, even without attribute check scalling, you wouldn't be able to open it anyway
(from memories, I could be wrong, but before it was at least 10 or 12 Body to open the door. With 4 body, on previous versions of the game without attribute checks scalling, you wouldn't be able to pass almost any body checks).

 

[NoClass77]

Gorilla Arms can help with a lot of the body checks. Wouldn't have been able to do the Coin Operated Boy mission with out them in one of my games.

 

[Itio]

Ok, I agree with level scalling on attribute checks, it's bad and I hope they will change it.
But... This door is a really bad example in your case. With 4 in Body, even without attribute check scalling, you wouldn't be able to open it anyway
(from memories, I could be wrong, but before it was at least 10 or 12 Body to open the door. With 4 body, on previous versions of the game without attribute checks scalling, you wouldn't be able to pass almost any body checks).

It's 4 because I see no point in raising it since all the checks are now scaled. Requiring to invest in a single attribute to the point of neglecting everything else is not how a game should be designed. I am not against scaling. I am against 17 points in a skill I don't want at level 30, especially when this is supposed to be the main way to complete the mission.

The thought isn't bad, it's how it's implemented. They changed the system that was designed with flat checks in mind, and it was never truly finished.

And if you dare to raise the difficulty, you will see 20 at level 1. Tell me this isn't ridiculous.

 

[yabab]

Tell me this isn't ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous, some paths are not available to your character. It's a common feature for RPG's to gate sections to certain character archetypes. This has been done since D&D in the 70's.

 

[tavellone]

I agree that the scaling is badly thought out and has been put in a game that really wasn't intended for it, but that isn't a softlock, it's one of multiple ways of tackling the situation. Frankly I think the way that CDPR deal with the multiple ways to handle a mission thing is kind of sub-par, there's many missions where you can easily climb upon a roof or access a backdoor and they just simply lead nowhere, I assume because they just weren't completely finished, given that there are plenty of missions that do account for this and are designed for multiple ways of tackling the situation.

Back to the matter at hand; even though the level scaling is badly implemented, the skill checks are still based off of the original design of the game, meaning no mission is blocked because of a lack of stats. Frankly if you can't figure a way around it, then that is on you, not the game.

The only exception to this is the mission with Brendan the vending machine, which really should be changed.

 

[boristhedork]

i truly thought i had to come back to this mission before realizing there was a little window/grate up on the wall, i was like “damn gotta go re-equip the gorilla arms again”

 

[Vyvertyt]

Same goes for money scaling in quests, you are getting charged more and more with higher lvl but rewards for quests remain the same and doesnt scale at all, doesnt make any sense for me, especially in quests like Spellbound.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

It's 4 because I see no point in raising it since all the checks are now scaled. Requiring to invest in a single attribute to the point of neglecting everything else is not how a game should be designed. I am not against scaling. I am against 17 points in a skill I don't want at level 30, especially when this is supposed to be the main way to complete the mission.

It's YOUR decision to not invest in Body, which is fine... It's pretty how I played since release.
Like I said, even without attribute check scalling like it was before 2.0 (again, attribute check scalling was a bad idea and I still hope CDPR will change it), with only 4 points in Body, you wouldn't been able to pass any Body checks in the game. But the only quest in the game which is locked behind an attribute check is "I Can Clearly See Now" (Brendan). Every others quests are not, there is always another path if you can't succeed an attribute check.

Beside, "checks" (Attributes/Skills/Reputations/Appreciations/Whatever...) are a common thing in RPGs... Cyberpunk is an RPG, in theory

 

[warlock75]

But the only quest in the game which is locked behind an attribute check is "I Can Clearly See Now" (Brendan).

While playing through PL there were a couple of times I came across a dumpster that had no check, it simply says, 'Move Obstacle'. They really need to change the Brendan check to the same thing.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

While playing through PL there were a couple of times I came across a dumpster that had no check, it simply says, 'Move Obstacle'. They really need to change the Brendan check to the same thing.

If you ask me, time to time, they simply used checks in Phantom Liberty to trigger the animation, not really to check anything. But I agree, moving the dumpster should be the same, 3 body required, just matter of checking something an to be sure absolutely everyone can move it

 

[Netrunner2go]

but rewards for quests remain the same and doesnt scale at all, doesnt make any sense for me, especially in quests like Spellbound.

its beyond "no sense" on high/max level you even can lose money... paying 50k for the book but just recieving 11,6k as reward, like "eh woot?"

 

[Zem]

While playing through PL there were a couple of times I came across a dumpster that had no check, it simply says, 'Move Obstacle'. They really need to change the Brendan check to the same thing.

Agreed. I think Brendan's quest was always a bug because even in ye olde days it required a 4 Body and nothing else in the game required any specific build or cyberware (that the game didn't give you for free anyway). If there was a door that needed Tech or Body to bypass or an obstacle that needed cyberlegs to leap over, there was always some other way around. It was obviously a design rule they were all supposed to follow.

PL was designed with the skill scaling in mind, so they were probably more careful to tag story-based skill checks as trivial. Same was always the case for a lot of the access points around town that are attached to antennae and the like. You can hack them no matter your Int score.

Post automatically merged: Jan 9, 2024

The new attribute scaling system now forces certain missions (this is the door in "Gimme Danger") to be soft-locked

Except for Brendan's quest, nothing in the game is soft-locked by skill checks or any specific build. You can complete the entire game with 3 in every attribute, no perks, and no cyberware other than what the game gives you for free. It'd be difficult, mind, but still possible.

Not saying the skill scaling doesn't need to be toned down (I've in fact done so myself by getting a PC mod), but it's not because it's locking you out of any required content to complete the game. It's because it scales up too fast and to too high a maximum level. Used to be only the very late game skill checks would be this high. Now, you can miss out on half the locked doors in the game if you don't keep pumping tech or body, for example, and only because you leveled up quickly.