**SPOILER ALERT** Ending thoughts and So Mi / SongBird Appreciation

[X_Blaze_X]

I know i am just one voice amongst millions and that the chances of someone form the team acknowledging this or giving thoughts on with what i am about to says is a long shot but i just had to get it out write it down put it out there if for no other reason that it would make me feel better.

I am...mostly very disappointed with the final ending of the game now that cd has washed their hand of it and considers it " finished"

V finds cure and lives happily ever after with Panam /Judy and now Songbird ( different reality's ) in "head canon" only which really and in the strongest negative terms possible terms possible sucks!!! and am disappoint the team took this path to not even give one happily ever after ending that included your romance and the cure.

IB4: This is cyberpunk reality: not everything needs a happy ever after, etc., etc. Yes, I know some of you like your dark and depressing worlds, your dark and depressing relationships, and your dark and depressing endings.

To say that "happy endings do not "exist" in this universe... I completely disagree. Too many people point to "tropes, "plot armor," and plot magic" in a negative context when, again, that is a subjective opinion. This is fantasy, not reality. speaking for myself, I play video games so I can experience something other than reality. I get enough of that every day.

I think there are over 10 endings now, and not one is "happy ever after." --again, IB4 --bla bla bla—not the first time I have played a game with an unfavorable ending, but it may be the last. I think it has come to the point where I am going to start a game by watching the ending on YouTube first before I spend money on something that is going to feel like a waste of time or leave me feeling depressed or "bitter sweet"—another" justification for a crappy endings in games.

There are so many ways they could have gone—to make this turn out better ( not the **** ending working with reed myers and the nusa) —the easiest way I can think of is So Mi or ALT to reverse the programming on the nanobots to start doing the opposite—transforming the johnny stuff back into V stuff, resulting in a full recovery, and a new bonus that V now has nanobots that actually attack any disease or anything harmful and could even "repair" cells to form natural again.

That is just one way it could have gone.

I finished my male V and took a break. I had a female v that was incomplete, and well, I won't be able to close this chapter until I finish it. It certainly makes no sense if I find this depressing. I guess it's just a completion thing. I guess I am looking forward to betraying REED again and shooting him.

I will say the Black Wall sequence was the most stratifying kill of the entire episode, but I just wish I could have done that to REED it would have been epic

They even managed to make the only "good ending" out of all choose from (sending So Mi to the moon) totally unfulfilling and depressing. The fact that all you do after EVERYTHING YOU BOTH have been though and stood by her side even after her confession is simply put a mostly unconscious body in a chair and push a button—that in my opinion is an absolute pure example of ME3-level bad right there.

It would have been so easy to make it better. Just have her regain some semblance of consciousness with you kneeling in front of the chair; she could have put her hand on your cheek, and say, thank you for helping me escape all this and for giving me my second chance. Something like a kiss even on the cheek would have been the cherry on top, and I would have at least felt like the whole expansion was worth it.

But as it stands, the only thing you are left is the small fact that So Mi will be safe, Reed is dead,!! and you beat Myers (I would soo take contact to eliminate her after her speech on the roof about song).

I really wish So MI could have been a full romance with lots of Cutscene and happiness ever after even if it meant you both escape to the moon.

But hey, I guess the writers wanted to invoke depression and regret instead of happiness in their players...because you know "that's how cyberpunk is"

That said, I have to give them credit again for making some of the most desirable women I truly wish existed.
Yennefer Panam So Mi Ciri, Triss, and Judy Shani are all amazing women that would make amazing partners.

 

[AlienSpaceBats]

I'm still unpacking how I feel about Phantom Liberty.

I loved playing through it, but still feel disappointed; the core of the story is again about finding V a cure (a carrot on the stick we've already been led and let down by in the main game). Though there is a legit cure this time, I can't help but feel that ending has CDPR smacking us over the head with aforementioned stick.

The game (especially if you skip to Phantom Liberty) all but decides you're out of options - if you were playing through normally, Alt literally just told you that she can help you if you get her into Mikoshi. She has to soulkill and reinject your consciousness, but it's a solution. V doesn't find out until the end of the game that their lifespan has been reduced to 6 months or so.

I think my disappointments with the story are woven through the main game though. That there was no merge consciousness ending (a much more prominent cyberpunk trope than the "there's no happy endings" one many have adopted, that most of your choices throughout your playthrough don't affect the ending (example: How about a system where over-use of either the Omega Blockers or Pseudoendotrizene that Misty gives you affect how aggressively Johnny's consciousness affects V?

And I waited three years to feel unsatisfied all over again. I'm not looking for a happily ever after at all, but more variation in the endings certainly. I definitely put it on the same list as (vanilla) Fallout 3 and Mass Effect 3. As I said, I loved playing through the thing, sending Songbird to the moon, etc. but still felt it was all for naught. Again.

I dunno. Wasted opportunity maybe.

 

[Kormac67]

I really wish So MI could have been a full romance with lots of Cutscene and happiness ever after even if it meant you both escape to the moon.

Yeah, me too. Missed opportunity.
They had announced there is no romance in PL so it was to be expected. There is a setup for romance with Alex but it leads nowhere. No idea why.

 

[St0G4tt0]

well...
i approached this DLC fully aknowleging 2 pillars:
- that this storyline is mostly set up before the basegame endings facts...
- that, guys, there is no way V can be "saved" in full.

So, DLC storyline have to be inserted into those unmovable facts:
- V dies (or left for dead... still with FLATINE message on screen) on game prologue and that imply that the nervous system of V's biological body will eventually collapse killing that body...;
- We know that Relic work will made V's body compatible with johnny's soul;

so, once removed from the table the impossible options, i was ready for those storyline options:
- a new mech/biologically-engeneered body for V;
- nusa is messing with V;

but, tbf, i have my own opinion in this game endings...
there is an happy one:

send SoMi to the moon and let johnny take V's body.

This game is not about the life of one person, is about the fight for freedom.

 

[0248991]

Hey,
I find it funny how Johny is written and acts as if he was a messiah or something...
He always has deeply rational, philosophical and emotional reasons for everything, even for nuking the city.

And I don't like how the game forces that getting along with him is the right way to go.
As if he's the (only) one who's pulling V through his/her "many mistakes" straight up to Mikoshi, enlightenment and a "happy ending".

I take him as a prime example of how the end doesn't justify the means. And that goes for Arasaka and V's resolution as well.

 

[MrMafoo]

I think the thing that bothers me the most, is that there is no point in the game, where you don't feel like you are going to die in a week. They want you to buy cars, apartments, and go on side missions, when the entire time, you are fighting for your life? I feel at least 1 ending, should have been where you can continue to play the game, and not worry about a time bomb in your head.

 

[Kormac67]

They want you to buy cars, apartments, and go on side missions, when the entire time, you are fighting for your life?

Yeah, the big pacing problem. You are supposed to do a ton of side content, big and small, now even the big PL story line - all the while Hanako is sitting in Embers growing roots.
Just turning this into "call Hanako" and making that the point of no return, directly transferring you to the meeting would make it so much less silly.

Generally, if someone in a game tells you "drop everything you are doing and go to" you should be able to do just that without skipping half the content.

 

[Spockprime]

Yep. I'm not in the "happy ending" camp. I don't think V deserves a happy ending.

However,

The game does deserve a main character with a story that provides some rationale for playing in an open world. Not a single one of the "endings" produced by CDPR does that. Thus, none of those endings exist for me. I have my own head canon ending where the Relic progression stops, V and Johnny have to continue figuring out how to get along, and both continue their existence running around in Night City.

 

[Tonysharp420]

Pisses me off so much i missed the iconic items during the spooky scary section when helping reed. Should allow us to go back or something. Iconic weapon merchant doesn't sell the stuff either. This is the type of dumb shit that makes people quit the game. CDPR make bad decisions.

 

[Wraith2042]

my main issue with it is not that its an unhappy ending for V, because i do think its quite a hopeful ending. He's got his life back, a cushy job offer, doesnt have to risk his life anymore, and sure he lost some friends but in canon he only really knew them for a few weeks or a month at most.

my issue is that its a huge middle finger to the player. We've spent hundreds of hours with these characters growing to care for them all, because thats what happens in RPG's like this. CDPR should be well aware of that and at least try and give a last respectful send off like they did with blood and wine. Instead they choose to say "oh see all those characters youve spent so much time with and care deeply for? yeah theyve all abandoned you, BOOYAH!".

Its a kick in the teeth to the audience thats supported them through an absolutely horrendous launch and has given them a second chance with 2.0 and the DLC. Their main message in some of the trailers was reed saying, basically for the company, "we fucked up but we can only hope we've fixed it" and the ending goes back on that in so many ways. its not only that, but its actually pretty bad writing too, they have to completely remove player agency to get the ending to fit just the way they wanted it. My V said "f*ck reeds secrecy" and just blabbed about being a secret agent and rescuing the president to all 4 of his new best friends, now im supposed to be super secret and vague about the treatment? imo my V would have handed them all alex and reeds number in case they couldnt get in contact, and actually had a conversation with them about going into MAJOR BRAIN SURGERY instead of just sending the most vague text imaginable.

I truly believe a better ending that keeps to the cyberpunk theme would be to have V maybe 2 months into his coma, a diagnosis that they dont know if he'll ever wake up, and some holocalls of his friends visiting him at the hospital and leaving voice messages while there about hoping he'll wake up soon and that they miss him. It gives a bittersweet ending while also giving potential hope for the future, just like all the other endings have (apart from the hanako ending). Instead its we the player, not V, thats been abandoned.

 

[MAXXVOLTAGE]

OP +1 Red point from me 100% in agreement . I share the sentiment the only passible ending is Killing Reed and sending Songbird to the moon

Finished My play though and was going to write a similar post yours but now i don't need to you did a a good enough job at voicing the sheer disappoint i feel in the devs for all the points you mentioned . Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed post. Your comparison to comparing it to an example of being as bad the M3 ending was on point as well.

There is absolutily 0 justification on why the base game endings could not have been changed for those who supported devs and bought the expansion the fact that you came up with such an easy fix as either Songbird or Alt reprogram the nanites to "repair" instead of change jsut showed how much the devs were consciously trying to make sure that they game absolutily no feel good ending in any ways to players that wanted that.

As for your point about spoiling games to avoid supporting devs in general that intentionally put in plot twists or "unconventional" endings to make sure their players leave depressed and disappointed has some merit you may "spoil" the game but at least you can relax and enjoy the playthrough without feeling like it was a complete waste of money and time.

if they want the ending to means somthing it could have worked even as canon ending

"Even in a place like Nights city full of hardship and corruption if you fight for it you can make your dreams come true and find your happily ever after."

Which with the simply solution would have been true with Aldecaldo Panam or Judy ending after everything the did and endured they leave night city and live happily ever after

I would have liked a ending where you escape tot he moon with Songbird and the game just ends there to but again the devs stated they did not want to both with added any new romances or even upgrading the current ones,

I have to go play somthing now that has decent romances and an better ending to replace this feeling of bitter disappointment and buyers remorse after playing this.

 

[Heartstopper]

I think that defending the ending as "that's how cyberpunk is" is a total copout that precludes the possibility of having an ending that's not "glory riding into the sunset" but also not so depressing it makes you wonder why you bothered at all.

 

[MartineDee]

Found this vid that falls well under Songbird appreciation.

하늘에서 떨어지는 송버드

#사이버펑크 #엣지러너 #오픈월드 #rpg #팬텀리버티 #cyberpunk2077

youtube.com

Post automatically merged: Jul 8, 2024

To the topic.

Song lies. The whole damn time. And it is so darn obvious that I haven't worked with her the first time I played PL. Not because the gvt smelled good, but because I had no option to say something like

Look, I see through your BS, but I sort of can help you.

And why? The answer is the same as if Arasakas asked why I *really* went to the tower that night.

For funsies. And kills.
I am worse than Johnny. I am new Adam Smasher.

-

Ultimately I tried to launch the cyborg to the moon et cetera lala, and liked it, because it flips the bird on one of the biggest bullies in the game - Myers. So, that ending has entered my lore gameplay, but I still don't have the option to call out Song's bs from the start.

Romance? Mmm, don't get me started, I want Fingers. That's a whole other thread if I were to start Fingers appreciation thread.

 

[Iosephus]

I think the most important aspect of an ending is that it is consistent with the theme of the story. It doesn't matter if the genre is Cyberpunk or not; what matters is that the ending doesn't ignore the theme.

I think a lot of people assume that the theme for the main story of Cyberpunk 2077 is simply survival, but it's not that, at least not exactly. Instead, the story is asking you to face your own mortality. This theme of mortality is expressed very early in the game when you meet Dexter Deshawn and he asks you whether you want to live a long, peaceful life, or die in a blaze of glory. What is unsaid is what you give up for each side of that dichotomy.

Do you fight for your survival, even if it means betraying others, yourself, or your own humanity? Or do you accept your mortality, and try to find meaning in the little time you have left?

Those questions permeate through each of the endings in the game. For example (spoilers below):

Sun - You try to make the most out of the time you have left by burning as bright as possible before you die.
Star - You cherish the time you have left by spending it with your loved ones, before you fade away.
Devil - You betray Johnny and Jackie's memory by dealing with the devil (Arasaka), with the misplaced hope that they might keep you alive.
Temperance - You decide to survive, even if it means shedding your humanity and the person that you currently are.
Tower - You betray Songbird to survive, but you lose your loved one and your current lifestyle.

Each ending has a cost because it is focusing on the dilemma of what you're willing to do to survive. I can't help but feel like a happier ending would have disregarded this ever-present theme in the game, which is why it makes sense that there isn't a happier ending.

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand the disappointment of not having your character survive in the best way possible, as that is usually what happens in role-playing video games. If you're seeking that sort of power fantasy, then yes, this game is probably not going to be fulfilling for you in this regard. Much like how people travel to Night City for all the fame, fortune, and glory, only to be let down by the darkness of it all, it's a bit ironic that this game also attracted a lot of people to its vibrant, cyberpunk world, only to give them a much more grim or bittersweet ending than they hoped.

I really enjoyed the game and have come to appreciate its endings, but I can also empathize with the people who wanted a happier outcome.

 

[MartineDee]

Sun - You try to make the most out of the time you have left by burning as bright as possible before you die.
Star - You cherish the time you have left by spending it with your loved ones, before you fade away.
Devil - You betray Johnny and Jackie's memory by dealing with the devil (Arasaka), with the misplaced hope that they might keep you alive.
Temperance - You decide to survive, even if it means shedding your humanity and the person that you currently are.
Tower - You betray Songbird to survive, but you lose your loved one and your current lifestyle.

Ah, interesting. This is another interpretation:

Star - Indeed, V goes far away, untouchable. As happens, Panam, Aldecaldos, adios NC.
Sun - Technically, also a star, but in its system the king of it all. V rises to the top and overcomes their mortality with the sheer willpower put in action.

The rest is kind of dnc for me. ^^

 

[Avalon_railguns]

V finds cure and lives happily ever after with Panam /Judy and now Songbird ( different reality's ) in "head canon" only which really and in the strongest negative terms possible terms possible sucks!!! and am disappoint the team took this path to not even give one happily ever after ending that included your romance and the cure.
....
But as it stands, the only thing you are left is the small fact that So Mi will be safe, Reed is dead,!! and you beat Myers (I would soo take contact to eliminate her after her speech on the roof about song).
....
I really wish So MI could have been a full romance with lots of Cutscene and happiness ever after even if it meant you both escape to the moon.

...
And I waited three years to feel unsatisfied all over again. I'm not looking for a happily ever after at all, but more variation in the endings certainly. I definitely put it on the same list as (vanilla) Fallout 3 and Mass Effect 3. As I said, I loved playing through the thing, sending Songbird to the moon, etc. but still felt it was all for naught. Again.

I dunno. Wasted opportunity maybe.

Yeah, me too. Missed opportunity.
They had announced there is no romance in PL so it was to be expected. There is a setup for romance with Alex but it leads nowhere. No idea why.

I think opinions of this type have something in common: namely, the assumption, belief, or a priori hope that Songbird will end up being a "good" character - either good by the fact of what she does (Song helps in the course of the game anyway - fixing Relic, giving V hope for an eventual cure), or good potentially - e.g., "Song was a good girl, but then she was caught by the villain Reed", i.e. despite all the ugly circumstances of her life, in the end So Mi retains her humanity - she confesses her lies, writes back a letter from the moon, sends a parting gift, etc.
Okay, if that's the case.
But what if it isn't? If the antagonistic assumption that Songbird is both potentially and actually an evil character whose essence and nature is to do evil and bring suffering to the entire circle of individuals with whom she interacts is fair? What if Song is a true daughter of Chaos with a demonic, nihilistic and destructive nature? What if she never imagined to help anyone, never intended to seek anyone's friendship, and never thought to have an affair? Are you sure a love affair is a good idea in this case?! *
How would you justify a "human" interpretation of her personality? By her own statements that she is "deeply sorry for the people she made suffer [by being an FIA agent]"? Her attempts to get V to have a sincere conversation? Is all of this to be believed, do you think?

I suspect that So Mi's humanity is just uncritically taken on faith by many. Naturally, this is acceptable, the game assumes a personal assessment of the story, but apparently "Cyberpunk" kinda gives users penalty points for this later on, in correspondence with its ideology.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* There's a lot to be said here, really.