[SPOILER ALERT] Funny story inconsistencies

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Maybe you might want to rethink how you word your core complaint.
Nethack, Rouge-likes, Final Fantasy, Wizardry, Might&Magic - all RPGs with less story impact, all counted as RPGs. Because reactivity isn't the singular thing that makes a RPG a RPG, not even in tabletop - as you'd have CYOA books for that. And i'm saying that as someone who himself has always complained about people going "Final Fantasy ? is the bestest RPG ever".
It's not about "lack of rpg mechanics" - it's lack of inter-connected story knots, alternative story-lines and overall reactivity of everyone towards player actions and the overall perception of the linearity of everything. And that's a complaint one can agree with, or not and touches what people really mean.

But going mostly "lack of rpg mechanics" isn't helping anyone understanding what anyone actually wants from a game. And therefore not helping anyone in creating something you'd percieve as better.
Ok, understand this: if there are no roles to choose, there is no rol fuckin game.
Saying "I dont know what people wants" Does not help either, but there you are.
Anyways, if you want specifics about what is rpg to me, just play fallout 2.
Pretty much is the freedom of a player to be an specific person, with a particular psichology and skills, therefore, being able to choose who and what you like, and who you side with, who you betray, who you kill.
Reducing a rpg to a skill tree have been working for cdpr, but i just dont like it (it was actually the same in the Witcher, a great great game but not a rol game).
There is only one rol here: V.
And there is nothing they can do to change that.
 
The whole letting Jackie die is just a lame plot device. Panam literally gets shot in the side and lives after using an expired health boost. You can literally escape the building without alarming anyone with Jackie.

Jackie getting shot up is inevitable. It happens early in the escape when you both jump from the balcony ledge while taking fire from the AV. That is when he gets a belly full of led. Doesn't matter if you escape the building without alarming anyone, Jackie already took his mortal wound.

And Panam doesn't get shot in the side, she takes a ricochet. There is a huge difference between taking rounds to the gut and catching a ricochet to the side. There are far fewer critical internal organs located where Panam caught the ricochet. Also, interesting to note that the game is pretty consistent in showing that Panam has scar tissue in that area following the AV mission, but not before.

You can make a lot of arguments regarding story fidelity vs player agency. Some of those arguments I find reasonable, some I do not. Everyone has their own take.
 
Ok, understand this: if there are no roles to choose, there is no rol fuckin game.
Saying "I dont know what people wants" Does not help either, but there you are.
Anyways, if you want specifics about what is rpg to me, just play fallout 2.
Pretty much is the freedom of a player to be an specific person, with a particular psichology and skills, therefore, being able to choose who and what you like, and who you side with, who you betray, who you kill.
Reducing a rpg to a skill tree have been working for cdpr, but i just dont like it (it was actually the same in the Witcher, a great great game but not a rol game).
There is only one rol here: V.
And there is nothing they can do to change that.

Ah finally figured that you mean 'role'....
...and I disagree with you that to have an RPG all you need is a role. Personally, I think what makes an RPG an RPG is that the skills your character has are more important than the skills you, the player, have.
.....that is why I can never figure out why dark souls is considered RPG....?
 
Jackie getting shot up is inevitable. It happens early in the escape when you both jump from the balcony ledge while taking fire from the AV. That is when he gets a belly full of led. Doesn't matter if you escape the building without alarming anyone, Jackie already took his mortal wound.

And Panam doesn't get shot in the side, she takes a ricochet. There is a huge difference between taking rounds to the gut and catching a ricochet to the side. There are far fewer critical internal organs located where Panam caught the ricochet. Also, interesting to note that the game is pretty consistent in showing that Panam has scar tissue in that area following the AV mission, but not before.

You can make a lot of arguments regarding story fidelity vs player agency. Some of those arguments I find reasonable, some I do not. Everyone has their own take.
You are probably right. I personally took Jackie's injury only to the fall and landing purely. Still doesn't change that fact that V didn't even try to use a booster on him.
 
You are probably right. I personally took Jackie's injury only to the fall and landing purely. Still doesn't change that fact that V didn't even try to use a booster on him.

If I am not mistaken Jackie himself use a stim/booster in the corridor where you landed. Have to track that part, but I am pretty sure that happened because I was wondering the same thing in my 2nd playthrough.
 
If I am not mistaken Jackie himself use a stim/booster in the corridor where you landed. Have to track that part, but I am pretty sure that happened because I was wondering the same thing in my 2nd playthrough.

And stims are going to work differently for story purposes vs gameplay purposes. In the story, a stim will not save someone who suffered mortal wounds. Where as in gameplay, V can take rounds to his head that have him just shy of flatlining, and a stim makes it all better.
 
Well, if by "inconsistencies" you just consider what is specifically showed, or written in the story, without arguing if what is showed is logic or not, considering the world context, previous character/enterprise behaviors, or if the reaction of characters makes sense or not, then you're right.

The game is perfectly fine! No inconsistencies at all. God, how could I be so wrong?

Maybe Padre forgot who V are, you know, being an old man and managing multiple mercenaries everyday, they could both just had forgotten.

Oh, I forgot that because nobody mentioned that possibility before in the game, it's obviously wrong.

LOL

You're funny dude, we are having a friendly discussion. No need to take it personally ;)

We could all speculate and talk about what could've been better.

'If it was me I would've done this, no I could do that.'

'Maybe Parde is senile'

'V is actually a time traveling Velociraptor' etc.

The game gives you an explanation that is consistent with the world, written story, logic of the said world, worlds context and previous character behaviors.

Could've there been more, yeah sure. I know I would've liked that but saying that its divorced from the world/story (story/world that CDPR is telling) is a bit disingenuous.

(if we use Cyberpunk as a whole and not just Cyberpunk 2077 I could go on and on about inconsistent shit. Yorinubu being patriotic which he isn't in the game, Kerry being bisexual, Morgan Blackhand being on top of Arasaka tower with Johnny and the crew. But this isn't that story, it's an unique version of it that CDPR made and I'm following the rules that are set in that world...at least the ones that makes sense, those rules/decisions that make no sense I criticize)

Corpos bad - they do bad/greedy/selfish shit (all in the said world)

Panam - headstrong, does impulsive shit

etc.

I wrote about it all and even motioned that the game has it's inconsistencies. Not gonna start sounding like a parrot by repeating the same thing over and over again.

You just don't seem to like them and that's fine.

Either way I had a good chuckle :)

Lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.
 
And stims are going to work differently for story purposes vs gameplay purposes. In the story, a stim will not save someone who suffered mortal wounds. Where as in gameplay, V can take rounds to his head that have him just shy of flatlining, and a stim makes it all better.

Completely agree with you...actually is there an ingame lore for items where it is explained what they do? Jackie has a pretty bad wound so maybe that is too much and the booster just couldn't heal him completely (only to the point where he hobble toward the car).
 
Maybe you might want to rethink how you word your core complaint.
Nethack, Rouge-likes, Final Fantasy, Wizardry, Might&Magic - all RPGs with less story impact, all counted as RPGs. Because reactivity isn't the singular thing that makes a RPG a RPG, not even in tabletop - as you'd have CYOA books for that. And i'm saying that as someone who himself has always complained about people going "Final Fantasy ? is the bestest RPG ever".
It's not about "lack of rpg mechanics" - it's lack of inter-connected story knots, alternative story-lines and overall reactivity of everyone towards player actions and the overall perception of the linearity of everything. And that's a complaint one can agree with, or not and touches what people really mean.

But going mostly "lack of rpg mechanics" isn't helping anyone understanding what anyone actually wants from a game. And therefore not helping anyone in creating something you'd percieve as better.

Exactly this! What I expected from "Cyberpunk 2077" was at least plot and subplot structure similar to "The Witcher 3" (quests/missions interconnected, with meaningful choices and consequences).
I also wanted a bit more open world freedom and activities after "The Witcher 3" (which was their first open world game, where I was much more forgiving for the lack of these features).
Instead, I feel like "Cyberpunk 2077" is a huge step back after "The Witcher 3" in both regards.
Sadly "Cyberpunk 2077" as it is right now can end up as a franchise killer or worst-case scenario even company killer.

P.S. Sorry for off-topic rant! I personally haven't seen many inconsistencies (maybe only some with 6 month montage and people involved).
 
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LOL

You're funny dude, we are having a friendly discussion. No need to take it personally ;)

We could all speculate and talk about what could've been better.

'If it was me I would've done this, no I could do that.'

'Maybe Parde is senile'

'V is actually a time traveling Velociraptor' etc.

The game gives you an explanation that is consistent with the world, written story, logic of the said world, worlds context and previous character behaviors.

Could've there been more, yeah sure. I know I would've liked that but saying that its divorced from the world/story (story/world that CDPR is telling) is a bit disingenuous.

(if we use Cyberpunk as a whole and not just Cyberpunk 2077 I could go on and on about inconsistent shit. Yorinubu being patriotic which he isn't in the game, Kerry being bisexual, Morgan Blackhand being on top of Arasaka tower with Johnny and the crew. But this isn't that story, it's an unique version of it that CDPR made and I'm following the rules that are set in that world...at least the ones that makes sense, those rules/decisions that make no sense I criticize)

Corpos bad - they do bad/greedy/selfish shit (all in the said world)

Panam - headstrong, does impulsive shit

etc.

I wrote about it all and even motioned that the game has it's inconsistencies. Not gonna start sounding like a parrot by repeating the same thing over and over again.

You just don't seem to like them and that's fine.

Either way I had a good chuckle :)

Lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Yes, yes, you're right.
 
And V don't being recognized by cameras is just bending the plot. I mean the guys that shoots V and Jackie in the roof were all robots with cameras, then?

Yes, it was drones that fired at you and forced you to jump of the ledge. You must have missed it but later inside the building you have a opportunity to hear security say, "Drones fired at intruders on the roof," or something to that effect. Well that is if you don't just start shooting up the place that is lol.

Unless you did a kill all run in Arasaka hotel, and never get spoted, which is pretty hard, it' really a weak explanation.

Actually it is pretty easy, maybe a little to easy. Didn't kill anyone.
 
Having to metagame to justify in-game universe is just result of bad writing. Now I love the narration of this game, I find the story to be very linear but I did enjoy it, certain sidequests are great, but they f'd up so badly in certain cases. Attention to detail is really lacking outside graphics and Judy's tattoos.
 
Wow, I just wanted to create a lighthearted thread about plot inconsistencies. I know the game was rushed and CDPR had to cut a lot of corners with plot and in-game systems, but there are countless other threads to air those grievances. Chill, my friends.
 
Ah finally figured that you mean 'role'....
...and I disagree with you that to have an RPG all you need is a role. Personally, I think what makes an RPG an RPG is that the skills your character has are more important than the skills you, the player, have.
.....that is why I can never figure out why dark souls is considered RPG....?
Got your point, but for me, the personality weights more than the skills:
personality--> fallout New vegas
Skills-->assassins creed.
In dark souls you can adopt many diferent identities which determine the way you play and the things you do. That's why, in my opinion, is much more a role (english is not my mother tongue, so indulge me) game than this one, or witcher, or many others.
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I'll give you an example of a RPG mechanic what could exist in the game, but wasn't.

Choice to give the player a chance to make his own "V". That's a good RPG mechanic example.

You wake up some day and suddenly think: "You know what, it's scumbag V time!"

Then you go out of V's apartment, shoot the neighborhood (Stop making noises, dammit), slap Wilson's (weapon shop vendor) face: "You always keep the shooting range closed, you dumbass, how dare you?"

Then you go out, make a police chase, end up in the desert. Stay there for 3 days, hidden, then suddenly someone calls you.

"Hey V, it's Maiko, I heard you lose it, because, you know, it was scumbag V day, bu this had a price. As you helped me in the past, pay me 20.000 eddies, so I can use some Arasaka contact to make some negotiation with NCPD. If you don't have the money, I have some work for you. Give it a thought."

If you don't accept, then after some time you receive another call.

"Hello, mr. Scumbag V, even when we can't see it, God is always looking for us, just as I'm always looking for my mercs. I heard you got problems with the law, I made some contacts with the Valentinos and they said they have a place to sell in Heywood. You can pay in cash, or get rid of the police in one of the Valentino's area, do that and your place in heaven will be secured."

If you wait a little longer...

"Hello V, it's Panam, listen, I know you messed up this time. People in the city hate your guts, because of what you have done, but you're family, even being a mr. Scumbag V, there's a tent for you here, and we could use your contacts to provide jobs to the family. Think about it."

If you don't accept it, then you could call NCPD, with a non trackable call. In the call it's given you the option to surrender yourself and get arrested, to get alternative punishment instead of prison.

"You are a scumbag, mr. Scumbag V. But as you made somenpolice work before, the judge gave you the option to pay a 15 thousand fee, or you can clean up three gang turfs, arrasting these criminals, dead or alive, it's your choice, mr. Scumbag V"

If you don't choose it, then Kerry calls you:
"Hello, mr. Scumbag pretty ass V, I knew that you blowed up, so if you want to, you can stay at my house. But keep it in order, okay? And help me to get my guitar back, please, some guy paid a fixer in Heywood to rob it from my nephew, do you believe that? The scumbag took Silverhand's shoes too! (Scumbag V: "No, never heard of it"). Anyway, call me if you're interested".

Alternatively, you could call Delamaine.

"Hello, Delamaine, it's me, Scumbag V, listen, I need a car in the desert, near the Batman's cave"

Delamaine: "Of couse mr. V, you're an excelsior client, but considering that you made my cars free, because you're a scumbag, it'll cost you 20 thousand eddies."

Or you could make a "Charity loving V".

Donating money to churches, helping children, capturing bandits.

Then, corpos call you, politics will praise you. You receive invitations to TV shows.

Corpos: "Hello, mr. Charity V, I heard of your good actions and our brand could use that to, you know, ahem, do what is right for u.. the city. If you are willing to, go to studio X, and we'll make an ad using your image to our new semi vegan bio organic carnivore food tooth paste that gives 200% of daily vitamines everytime you brush your teeth. You'll be well paid, or we'll give some calls, then you receive some great discounts on some shops"

NCPD: "Very well done citizen. You’re invited to visit our instalations, to see how we train or soldiers, and talk to our chief."

Chief of NCPD: "Hello mr. Charity V, considering the valorous work you have been putting in the city, we have a proposition to you: we have this gang problem in north of Night City, so if you choose to accept our offer, we'll give you an uniform, and you will arrest wanted people, so in that way you'll get paid, and depending on how much you work, we'll be sending some equipaments to your apartment, and the officers will be very pleased with your presence."

Then if you do some police missions, officers starts to greet you when you call them, vendors will give you a discount, people will call for your help and so on.

Not only the RPG mechanic of choice is lacking, but making those choices meaningful, make the world react to them.

That's why even cursed with "Bethesda charm", Fallout NV (rushed by Bethesda) is so praised.
Even simpler choices: anti chrome V; pro corpo V (as in actually working for saka/militech); put a bullet in Jackie's head V; siding with a gang V... Just a little control over your character.
 
Got your point, but for me, the personality weights more than the skills:
personality--> fallout New vegas
Skills-->assassins creed.
In dark souls you can adopt many diferent identities which determine the way you play and the things you do. That's why, in my opinion, is much more a role (english is not my mother tongue, so indulge me) game than this one, or witcher, or many others.
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Even simpler choices: anti chrome V; pro corpo V (as in actually working for saka/militech); put a bullet in Jackie's head V; siding with a gang V... Just a little control over your character.

Eh it's no problem. If you wish I can pm you a pretty nice (and free last I checked) spellchecker.
Anyway to go back to somewhat on topic - I am for more choices. Not for this threat, but imo the early Arasaka mission was not handled well and after these events, the main quest could use some fixes on the pacing.....
 
God this bothers me still so much. The whole relationship with Kerry is so superficial.
Some random ass punk breaks into your mansion, grabs one of your guitars and starts playing a tune anyone could learn. And your's first reaction is "Jhonny?". Come on man... that is one of the laziest way of going about it...
Two excellent guitarists of equal skill can play the exact same song, and they will sound different. Maybe not so much for the layman but a very serious musician like Kerry would be able to tell. Anyone could learn that song, hell there are probably implants to do the learning for you, but it would very unlikely that they hold the strings with the same tension/timing, strum with the same intensity, etc.
 
One thing that always bothers me when replaying the game is when V recover from the heist mission after the first banter with JS, his friend died, his head fucked by the chip, he's angry at Johnny and sees him as an intruder, I immersed myself as V, confused and full of rage, first mission mega building parking lot to drive his car, and a Delamain destroy his car, and suddenly V said "Johnny you see this?" calmly. This takes me out of the immersion, I think the appropriate emotion is to be angry and rage at his bad luck streak, give us the choice to curse or to choose an angry response. Need one transition banter between V and Johnny before they decide to cooperate.
 
One thing that always bothers me when replaying the game is when V recover from the heist mission after the first banter with JS, his friend died, his head fucked by the chip, he's angry at Johnny and sees him as an intruder, I immersed myself as V, confused and full of rage, first mission mega building parking lot to drive his car, and a Delamain destroy his car, and suddenly V said "Johnny you see this?" calmly. This takes me out of the immersion, I think the appropriate emotion is to be angry and rage at his bad luck streak, give us the choice to curse or to choose an angry response. Need one transition banter between V and Johnny before they decide to cooperate.

Yeah, on one play-through, I went from that to the mission where V fixes the roller-coaster and Johnny was sitting next to me like we were best buds. It was weird.
 
@Kaspar.Hauser
Buddy you didn't need to make a huge example on the shortcomings you percieve. As i get what people would have wanted. I'd totally liked the same thing and completly agree that the storylines seem not be that interconnected. It's not much different from how little impact your choice, of which guilds you join, in Skyirm have on its main questline.

And yeah i personally disliked the whole writing of the Heist job. Never trusted Dex in him giving us not just a big job, but the biggest on the horizon. And i'd totally liked not going for that job. So yeah.. more choices bigger consequences. But i understand that a heavy storytelling game, will always have less choices than one just trying to simulate a world with algorithmic storytelling - which simply leads to weaker storytelling.

@hulkman2456
Well seeing how people can percieve through her eyes (T-Bug and others) i'd rather say no one pressed the recording button.
But yeah, all in all those eyes seem to be rather weak, given you don't get nightvision or anything.
In lore and you guys had even a quest about recordings with Evelyn, to do a recording you need a special cyberware implant. Not just Kirioshi Optics that feed you the image and have additional bonuses(ammo count and minor things you can put, like nade explosion range). Meaning V and Jakie could just use phones true. But if you also paid attention, T-Bug only hears what you hear, not sees. So it was possible, but I doubt most people will grab phone to do a vid, when emperor of biggest corporation walks in, while you are stealing his shit.
 
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