An open world game and yet V is forced to work with him and ultimately be betrayed by him.
But good acting - the guy gave me a bad feeling the moment I stepped into his car.
It would be nice if the open world game could offer variety in how people want to progress themselves in it - maybe as a bounty hunter, a Ramen hawker, a doll, a cop, a tinkerer, etc. Why are we forced to become a thief?
I think a much more natural main plotline would not be something so specific as stealing the Relic -> botching the job -> sticking the shard in your head but rather some large event that affects the whole of the ecosystem (like a war between Arasaka and Militech) that draws the player into the main plotline regardless of their career choice or ongoing friendships.
That way people can really enjoy different facets of the open world and still be drawn in by the main story.
Sadly we were misled into thinking this will be an RPG up until very recently when they stopped calling it an RPG (after many years of hyping it up as one) and started calling it an 'action adventure'.
Sadly all we got now is a linear story with minimal variation. The game has good and amazingly acted characters, but the story they're forced to be a part of is mediocre, at best.
Because Jackie had him as a fixer and T-Bug set it up, and V wanted a job. Also V is indeed a thief and a merc, so the worlds aligned.
As for having the player make every little story decision including the big ones is an overwhelming heavy load of writing and piecing that stuff together long term and short term. Not to mention coding all that together. That's why you probably can't name a single game where you completely drive the story of the game lol
If so, please recommend something, I'd like to check it out.
It isn't an insurmountable task to code in different career options into a game. Even Ultima 7 back from 1992 allowed the player to make money and advance levels in different ways. Arguably most of the work is already done in CP2077 with the side quest/reward system.
The least I would have expected is to allow V to have a couple of different career choices and to pick different associates.
The problem is that the main story is very niche and paints the storytelling into a corner.
I mean as much as I agree that the open world and RPG stuff is a massive letdown in terms of what was promised/advertised, I see no problem with working with Dexter at all.
Any and all open world or linear games can have a storyline where you work for/with someone who later betrays you. For example in RDR2 pretty much everyone knew it going in that Dutch and Micah are bad news, we still had fun doing their missions. Dex is a fixer, you are a merc, as it was said before, perfect combination to make some eddies.
If anything, i am more disappointed that I couldn´t finish him off myself.
Too bad there was no actual option to ditch Dex and work for Evelyn like she proposed and then deal with the consequences or something, but yeah... we got what we got.
Because if they include every single option you can think of the game wouldnt be out for another 27 years. The game has atleast 100 hours of content, if you read everything and never skip anything. It's more than enough for its price.
Because if they include every single option you can think of the game wouldnt be out for another 27 years. The game has atleast 100 hours of content, if you read everything and never skip anything. It's more than enough for its price.
Exagerration. I've done everything clocking 65h or so, without skipping anything and without using quick travel and yet, game is very linear. I still had a lot of fun, but we barely had any choices that changed mission outcomes.
It isn't an insurmountable task to code in different career options into a game. Even Ultima 7 back from 1992 allowed the player to make money and advance levels in different ways. Arguably most of the work is already done in CP2077 with the side quest/reward system.
The least I would have expected is to allow V to have a couple of different career choices and to pick different associates.
The problem is that the main story is very niche and paints the storytelling into a corner.
Dude, you can't compare a game from 1992 to a game now, while simultaneously expecting such a high level of production value.
Ultima 7 was a fucking top down, 2-D game. Cyberpunk is fully 3D with highly detailed HD assets that require intricate animation work, physics, lighting, voice acting and somewhat naturalistic writing in order to properly ground the experience. It's not comparable at all, that expectation is absurd.
Game development doesn't work that way, especially in AAA.
Did ya'll ever want this game to ACTUALLY come out?
People on these forums have below zero technical understanding i've found. They just ask and scream. Kind of weird in 2020 for a gamer, if you ask me...
It's super weird. Like, I understand being disappointed in the game, I am too. But Jesus, this game was never going to be the greatest game of all time, it's ambitions were too high and CDPR is too young and inexperienced of a studio.
Not even Rockstar could pull off the game that many here had built up in their heads, at least not to their quality expectations, as if the game would manage to juggle all of these systems flawlessly with the level of polish of a linear AAA title while still being a viable experience on last-gen hardware LOL
CDPR is a jank studio my dudes. Far less so than other European RPG studios sure, but it's still prevalent and it was always going to be the case with this game too.
An open world game and yet V is forced to work with him and ultimately be betrayed by him.
But good acting - the guy gave me a bad feeling the moment I stepped into his car.
It would be nice if the open world game could offer variety in how people want to progress themselves in it - maybe as a bounty hunter, a Ramen hawker, a doll, a cop, a tinkerer, etc. Why are we forced to become a thief?
I think a much more natural main plotline would not be something so specific as stealing the Relic -> botching the job -> sticking the shard in your head but rather some large event that affects the whole of the ecosystem (like a war between Arasaka and Militech) that draws the player into the main plotline regardless of their career choice or ongoing friendships.
That way people can really enjoy different facets of the open world and still be drawn in by the main story.
An open world game and yet V is forced to work with him and ultimately be betrayed by him.
But good acting - the guy gave me a bad feeling the moment I stepped into his car.
It would be nice if the open world game could offer variety in how people want to progress themselves in it - maybe as a bounty hunter, a Ramen hawker, a doll, a cop, a tinkerer, etc. Why are we forced to become a thief?
I think a much more natural main plotline would not be something so specific as stealing the Relic -> botching the job -> sticking the shard in your head but rather some large event that affects the whole of the ecosystem (like a war between Arasaka and Militech) that draws the player into the main plotline regardless of their career choice or ongoing friendships.
That way people can really enjoy different facets of the open world and still be drawn in by the main story.
You have to be very careful not to betray the trust of the player by feeding them hamfisted illusions of choice.
And this was very hamfisted.
Without giving spoilers, I would just say you could have restricted the players movement in exactly the same way but still offered a different gameplay reward for choosing Evelyn over Dex. Ideally, this would complicate the main plot and cause some dominoes to fall... ideally. But that wouldn't even be necessary. You can make the player feel like they have some agency and still keep things on a budget. All you had to do was allow some player agency to choose Evelyn... like:
(optional) Call Evelyn
I tried calling her anyway, phone doesn't work. Anyway, if you call her, Dex's bodyguard could then be behind you and your connection drops, and you get a different confrontation. It should be possible for you to kill Dex and/or his bodyguard. Then, give us a cool line with a little character insight from Dex/bodyguard, then we wake up in the dump and there is Takemura. Not a huge shift, but the player does not feel let down. Choosing between Evelyn and Dexter felt like an important choice and the payoff simply wasn't there.
Also, my gun hits didn't register on those bikers in the following chase scene. That didn't feel good.
Dude, you can't compare a game from 1992 to a game now, while simultaneously expecting such a high level of production value.
Ultima 7 was a fucking top down, 2-D game. Cyberpunk is fully 3D with highly detailed HD assets that require intricate animation work, physics, lighting, voice acting and somewhat naturalistic writing in order to properly ground the experience. It's not comparable at all, that expectation is absurd.
Game development doesn't work that way, especially in AAA.
Did ya'll ever want this game to ACTUALLY come out?
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It's super weird. Like, I understand being disappointed in the game, I am too. But Jesus, this game was never going to be the greatest game of all time, it's ambitions were too high and CDPR is too young and inexperienced of a studio.
Not even Rockstar could pull off the game that many here had built up in their heads, at least not to their quality expectations, as if the game would manage to juggle all of these systems flawlessly with the level of polish of a linear AAA title while still being a viable experience on last-gen hardware LOL
CDPR is a jank studio my dudes. Far less so than other European RPG studios sure, but it's still prevalent and it was always going to be the case with this game too.
Yeah exactly! And they all automagically forgot how Witcher 3, Gta 5 or any other open world game or any game for that matter had bugs before they were fixed or somewhat fixed. And then they became greatest games of all time. Skyrim still has bugs, and its a LEGENDARY game.
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It will all be fixed dudes. No game comes out perfect in 2020. We live in such times.
Unfortunately CRPGs are limited by production budget, not by imagination - like PnP RPG.
But what Cyberpunk 2077 achieved in story, combat system, character development and world design is a new thing in the gaming world. Even being massive, if you do all the side missions, you can visit a lot of different places.
I'm not saying that it's flawless 10/10, but the things that are lacking can be fixed to improve the player experience even further.
Good question. It seems like V can not be played as a smart guy - you're locked into being a bit of a doofus, so you've got to work for this obviously shady guy on a job way above your ability, then get your azz capped due to being a dumbo.
Would have been superior to have some choice in the matter.
Dude, you can't compare a game from 1992 to a game now, while simultaneously expecting such a high level of production value.
Ultima 7 was a fucking top down, 2-D game. Cyberpunk is fully 3D with highly detailed HD assets that require intricate animation work, physics, lighting, voice acting and somewhat naturalistic writing in order to properly ground the experience. It's not comparable at all, that expectation is absurd.
Game development doesn't work that way, especially in AAA.
Did ya'll ever want this game to ACTUALLY come out?
My friend, learn to argue without cussing. It just makes you look incapable of arguing your point eloquently.
CD Projekt is a multi-billion Euro company, 8.16B by market cap of its shares, and hundreds of millions of Euros in annual sales revenues. Electronic Arts in 1992 was a company that was sold around that time for tens of millions of dollars.
Yes they are totally comparable, and I think given the difference in size, budgets and enabling technologies it would not have been a stretch to expect them to code in at least one GOOD ending, or one life path where you avoid working with Dexter.
Most of the people here are not asking for another game, just another ending where you don't die immediately or in a couple of months. Also, they already coded in several different endings so why not one happy ending?
My friend, learn to argue without cussing. It just makes you look incapable of arguing your point eloquently.
CD Projekt is a multi-billion Euro company, 8.16B by market cap of its shares, and hundreds of millions of Euros in annual sales revenues. Electronic Arts in 1992 was a company that was sold around that time for tens of millions of dollars.
Yes they are totally comparable, and I think given the difference in size, budgets and enabling technologies it would not have been a stretch to expect them to code in at least one GOOD ending, or one life path where you avoid working with Dexter.
Most of the people here are not asking for another game, just another ending where you don't die immediately or in a couple of months. Also, they already coded in several different endings so why not one happy ending?
What you're saying right now is completely different than what you you were saying previously. To expect the amount of depth and choice that you get from a game like Ultima 7 in a AAA title with the fidelity and intricacies of Cyberpunk is absurd. That's ultimately the trade off if you want such high production values. Money can only do so much. Not even Rockstar could pull off what CDPR was initially pitching when it came to this game. It wasn't viable, it was always a dream game, which is why they consistently whittled down their vision over the years. The signs were all there.
Too bad there was no actual option to ditch Dex and work for Evelyn like she proposed and then deal with the consequences or something, but yeah... we got what we got.
I managed to find a way out of the No-Tell Motel without a bullet in my noggin.
If you can get your ride inside the lot, make a far leap from Delamain to the fence, or some degree there of, the surrounding area is not blocked off with the usual "Nothing here yet", once you climb out. I'm still locked out of weapons, phone, and most features by the looks of it, sadly, so doesn't seem like anything will come of it.
Side note, that windows watermark has been there ever since I moved my license over from my old rig. Been like it so long, I'd probably miss it if I ever went about fixing it XD
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To expand further though; Say we did get the option to call Ev.
Example Line of how the story could go
The Heist
Enter room 204 or
(Optional) Call Ev
New Quest: Dollface (Not good with names)
Meet with Ev (+Judy?)
Deal with Dex's Thugs (optional, Talk your way out, then meet with Dex to talk Peace?)
Kill Dex
Meet with Takemura(?)
Going that simple, above route, would also change a lot of moments later on, though. Johnny couldn't fully say Dex pulled one over on us, or Takemura might not have been marked by 'Saka droids. Instead of Dex trying to zero us, maybe we zero Dex, and call to meet Takemura out in the landfill to make our case that Saburo wasn't on us. To make an option, it has to be deep enough so as not to just be a shallow illusion of choice.
Hell, given the situation, some mercs might be psycho enough to shoot the Emperor and his Heir back in the Plaza Hotel, once the guards were gone. If we're gonna die on this job, go out in a blaze of glory. Escape through the window with Smasher on our heels, and hell to pay for the anarchy we'd raise. Bet you Silverhand would toast to that.
Maybe another route wouldn't have us losing dear old Jackie- keeping things quiet enough and trying to escape another way, rather than trying to book it out the window.
T-Bug could also still be alive- her "death" a ruse to get her that villa retreat she wanted, all ties cut. She doesn't have to get fried, but that route might still get her out of the story. Or maybe she's in on the con with Dex, like I swear I'd seen in one of the trailers for the game. Would also be an easy out for how Dex finds us, on this proposed "Dollface" line.
Even if we still MUST wake up in the scrapyard with a bullet in our noggin, having the choice of the road we took to get there would add a lot of depth to the game. That being Playthrough 2, with only 2-3 hours invested so far in that run.
Consider this though:
A choice like this could alter the whole storyline of the game. If we don't "die", then does Relic ever try to upload Silverhand? Maybe Takemura shoots us on orders, then begins the drones and the story picks up how it went, but that feels a tad forced.
Raise your hand if you want to write 3-8 different, but complete stories, branch and weave those stories together in one world, with a lot of the same characters, while making each story unique enough to be its own, smaller game.
I likely won't see a lot of hands, because that's a lot of content to write, let alone animate, act, bug-proof, and in general, create.
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Its the City of Dreams- We need to dream a little bigger.
"Cyberprank 2077" isn't so much a prank to me. I was expecting a tad more options in how the story flowed, sure- RPG and all, but I certainly don't think the game is bad. Maybe a tad overhyped, and I have yet to be truly "stunned" by it, but certainly not another No Mans Sky or it's ilk.
I will say, though, that I hope the game is not "done". I just finished my first playthrough, a Corpo turned Nomad with a bit of a hacking focus (oh, and Panam is awesome). It was not a bad experience, and I do look forward to any possible DLC or additional quests, along with the obvious bug fixes and optimization.
As for the "not-player-caused" glitches and bugs that occur in the game, those can be forgiven in my humble opinion- I had a relatively stable 60+ hour run, with the only mentionable ones being 2 CtDs (When I mucked with the graphical settings) and the final fight with a Smashing Gent, in which he did not actually enter his exposition mode during 8 consecutive attempts, when at 0% hp. Not entering that last stage, he wouldn't actually "die" when shot, making the boss un-killable. Validating the files and loading a previous save did solve the issue, but wasted a couple hours of my time.
Fell through the world here and there, but it doesn't kill you- just puts you back on the pavement. Disorienting, maybe, but by no means poorly handled.
That was one of the most stable runs of any game, especially one just post launch, that I've had in a while. Props for that, Devs.
Those bugs and glitches aside, I hope that as time goes on, and now that the game is out and being widely received, played, and reviewed, that CDPR does not simply "stop" development of the game.
Now, DLC would be a bit of a tough pill to swallow given the state of the game as it is. It'd be a VERY hard sell for even the most dedicated corpo shill, to advocate for more paid content on a "unpolished" game. However, an update down the line, even if its far off in the future (1.5 or 2.0 maybe), that adds a couple different quest lines and story-beats, like the one mentioned here with calling Ev, would be incredibly welcome, and would make any future DLC feel far more justified.
That ALL being said, I definitely *don't* dislike Cyberpunk as it is now- Actually really enjoy the game. Solid, say, 7.5 out of 10. It'd be a hard pitch to get me to pay 60$ for it again, and I wouldn't pitch it to my m8s in its current state.
By the numbers, estimate 120 hours worth of "first play" value assuming just 2 runs, even if you've seen a lot of the story beats that second time, you're getting some decent quality entertainment for 50 cents per hour. Run through the second attempt faster, call it 90 hours, and its still only 75 cents per hour, for some pretty solid fun.
Its definitely not a bad game, and it is, probably, worth the 60 on the tag- I just wouldn't be in the rush to buy it.
The characters are deep, well written, and done up enough, as well as not being ugly to look at, that they carry this game well enough. Silverhand is actually one of my least favorite characters so far, but I have to admit he's written relatively well. The quests, general content, and combat don't detract from it, and the Ai can be let slightly off the hook.
If given the choice between waiting another 3-7 years of development for CDPR to make 1 or 2 more alternate paths that you wouldn't even get to see on one singular run of the game? To see Cyberpunk completely bugless and "flawless", but that far down the line?
I'm happy its here now. Game is a fun way to kill time, and it will at least be worth 2-3 playthroughs. Modless, and current state.
Apples to Apples, I think the Witcher may still be CDPRs best title *thus far*- I'll need to play with both Witcher 1 and 2, as well as actually sit down and actually experience Wild Hunt at some point. I own all 3 games, but never really got into W3 because I just didn't find the combat very fun, those first few hours in.
Cyberpunks early combat is satisfying enough and the quickhacks and cyberware don't get in the way or feel clunky like Deus Ex's tech can. The best comparison I can draw, from experience, is this:
Go run through Legendary Edition Skyrim, without SKSE, its Ai, combat, quest, location, items, crafting- run through that beloved, undead meme of a game *without* all the community effort and crutches, and *stop* once you beat Alduin. No Dawnguard. No Dragonborn. No making your own Hearth and Homestead. Yes, the map is massive, but how much depth is there, really? How many hours of fun and enjoyment? Is it even stable?
Compare it to the "repost" of Special Edition, with the same qualifiers. Ignore what was DLC content. 2077 hasn't been out long enough nor should it have DLC yet.
Compare it to the "bad" Fallout (4, not 76). Again, modless, No DLC.
Compare THAT to Cyberpunk. The difference in age, and quality, shows. CDPR did pretty good with this.
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For the TL;DR:
I just hope development on this game isn't finished. Its not perfect, nor should it have to be. However, it *also* doesn't have to sit as it is.
Now that the game is here, CDPR (and perhaps anyone wanting a new game to mod) can give us those different paths of the story- or the "missing" mega-buildings, better AI, more customized cars, more cyberware, or whatever it is we're looking for, to give us the open world and freedom of Skyrim or the depth of Witcher, with all the decent qualities that Cyberpunk brings to the table.
And, apologies for the block of text and being so long winded ^.^
Whether for good or worse (which is mostly subjective in the end) I assume many people expected a less linear game. Someone called it "Far Cry X" (add any number) with futuristic elements and this is perhaps fitting, opposed to a Skyrim or Fallout game. Now, even they have their main plots, but for example in the most recent FO4 (or Fallout New Vegas), you had more control over the main plot, even if it's basically influencing how it goes by working with one key faction you assist, while putting others at odds.
In many of them you can often skip parts or take other routes more.
Perhaps, if any sort of poll could tell, it might be worth trying a less linear approach for the follow-up game or any notable content / story DLC?
Surely people won't complain by having more options and I believe you can still hand-craft a nice story less on "one rail" and so on.
It's possibly simply more work by offering different major routes, or more of them. The reward can stand for itself, I guess. If anything, a side effect would be negating all comments saying they feel the plot is too linear for their tastes, without saying it's bad.
I personally prefer a bigger 'sandbox' in terms of tackling things or going alternative routes. Simply because THAT is more customization for the player, and for me, more satisfaction. Especially if I can basically pick factions or join certain minor factions at least.
