A discussion in the character of Songbird (spoilers for the PL story and ending)

[eratas123]

Am I the only one who doesn’t find her all that sympathetic? The DLC frames helping her as the 'good ending' and that giving her over to Myers is selling out someone who just wants to survive for your own selfish desires. Basically the 'bad ending'.

Except she betrays EVERYONE. I know the story tries to frame her as a mirror to V - another person forced into desperate actions to save her life - but it doesn't change the fact that she fucks over every single person in pursuit of that.

Imagine if V screwed over the Aldecaldos, Misty/Vik, Judy, River, Kerry etc etc in pursuit of a cure and then had a moment where they cry about how guilty they feel...but then keep doing it again and again anyway. That feels like Songbird. There's nobody she's not willing to stomp over if it means her survival.

Every single person in the DLC she basically screws over, especially V since their ONLY reason for being involved is because she promised them a cure. And then right at the eleventh hour, she basically tells them that EVERYTHING they did in the DLC, all the risks they took, was just so she can be cured while V's left with no solution and Myers now holding a grudge against them. She played on their desperation for her own gain and leaves them holding the bag.

Again, let's imagine V did something similar. Like he tricks Panam into thinking that raiding Mikoshi would somehow help the Aldecaldos (and it doesn't in this hypothetical, unlike the actual Star ending) rather than it being a mutually beneficial arrangement. Then they leave the clan to face Arasaka’s wrath while they run off. Would V come across as sympathetic if they basically decided to throw the Aldecaldos under the bus for their own survival?

It also doesn't help that she has a callous view of civilians. At no point in the main story are you forced to murder innocent people. The one time it happens - when Alt kills all the employees at Mikoshi - V's appalled and makes it clear they didn't plan that or assume Alt would do that. You can even choose the 'Don't Fear the Reaper' ending because you wanna go out on your own rather than risk the lives of your friends.

Meanwhile, in the branching path, Songbird says she plans to cause a mass murder of the people in the stadium as a distraction. V can point out that a LOT of people would die from that and she shrugs her shoulders and goes "They'll die so we (and by that I mean just me) can live". Like unless everyone in the stadium were Barghests, this comes across as the moment that solidifies her as someone who doesn't deserve a happy ending.

 

[CTPhipps]

Meanwhile, in the branching path, Songbird says she plans to cause a mass murder of the people in the stadium as a distraction. V can point out that a LOT of people would die from that and she shrugs her shoulders and goes "They'll die so we (and by that I mean just me) can live". Like unless everyone in the stadium were Barghests, this comes across as the moment that solidifies her as someone who doesn't deserve a happy ending.

I quote Michael Masden: "She deserves her revenge and we deserve to die--but then again, so does she."

 

[Boonatron]

Song So Mi was used as a weapon by Myers for years. It sems clear that Myers is probably a sociopath.

On top of that, Song So Mi is more than 50% chrome due to trying to keep up with Myers's ever growing demands. She will have caused countless deaths already including being ordered to betray her friends. She has been hurt in many ways and a degree of disconnection is to be expected.

It may be just my reading of it but once in a while she'll stare into the distance with a sad expression. Live or die, she knows she's damned and happy endings are for story books.

I don't think she is supposed to be likeable but rather pitiable.

 

[CTPhipps]

Song So Mi was used as a weapon by Myers for years. It sems clear that Myers is probably a sociopath.

So Mi concealed a lot of her condition from Myers.

Myers notably lives up to her word with you but also pays off the money you promise those two random mercs that get killed protecting her if you recruit them.

If you assume she's just a monster who wants power, you've basically misunderstood her character completely.

 

[Notserious80]

If you assume she's just a monster who wants power, you've basically misunderstood her character completely.

Nothing in this game is ever black/white but shades of grey. If you listen to her giving Reed orders at the spaceport she does come of as a any cost person. They kill countless civvies during that quest too so nobody is good nobody is evil or everybody is, its just Cp2077.

 

[Masioj]

Of all the Phantom Liberty characters at least the one that seems to be straight with you even if it is for just a moment was So Mi for me xD
I mean, she could have shut up about her plan of the stadium and make another lie, she could have shut up and don`t tell you about the neural matrix limited use and still tells you that when you can still retaliate against her. Of course it could still be a lie and be some manipulatory gamble who the fuck knows.
But seemed to me better than Reed and of course better than Myers. And just out of spite for the NUSA I followed So Mi`s agenda xD

 

[CTPhipps]

Of all the Phantom Liberty characters at least the one that seems to be straight with you even if it is for just a moment was So Mi for me xD
I mean, she could have shut up about her plan of the stadium and make another lie, she could have shut up and don`t tell you about the neural matrix limited use and still tells you that when you can still retaliate against her. Of course it could still be a lie and be some manipulatory gamble who the fuck knows.
But seemed to me better than Reed and of course better than Myers. And just out of spite for the NUSA I followed So Mi`s agenda xD

I mean she's absolutely the LEAST straight person with you as the entire premise is based on her lying to you about a cure since she never intends for you to have it versus herself.

REED is straight with you. Which doesn't help matters because he's straight about the fact he's loyal to a faux democracy in the NUSA.

Also, So Mi is probably lying about Myers too.

Because if she hates her THAT much and thinks she's THAT much of a danger, why does she go out of her way to make sure Myers isn't hurt or killed?

 

[JohnFishere]

I despise this lying bitch with every ounce of my bone. Even more than King Geffrey, any fictional character to ever exist. What I depise the most is imagine if King Geoffrey is guilt-tripping people for not following through with his bullshit. Worst part is V not calling her out on her bullshit, telling her to go fuck herself. And the way this DLC constantly tries to frame her as the victim and helping her for being the best ending.

 

[Kormac67]

Really liked So Mi. Two wounded girls fighting for their lives hand in hand and finally sending her off to the stars was the most satisfying path in PL for me.
Then again I go mostly by emotion for choices in games without over analyzing things.

 

[gregski]

I remember the very beginning of PL, when you're contacted by some very powerful netrunner, like, out of nowhere. "Yo, that thing killing you and noone having a cure for? Easy, just help me out in my little endeavour"

I didn't trust a word coming out of her mouth back then in front of the stadium and for good reason.

 

[thecatalystr]

If we look at the sitch from her perspective, she used everyone just like she's been used by Myers all these years which caused her problem and it was her only option to get away from everyone and survive. In the end, it was Song's story and we just played a part in it and perhaps a major one. V was her only option to survive because we were the only one who could understand and help her due to our sitch with the Relic. Yes, she may made us kill lots of people to help her but in almost every ending we kill lots of people just to survive so we're not that different. She did not tell the whole story at first but she at least told us everything (except the cure) and opened up about her personal life and feelings (Birds with broken wings). Obviously, she was not gonna tell us about the cure being one dosage only because otherwise we wouldn't help her. At the station, I think even though her lie, it was a sensible thing to send her to the moon instead of giving her to the FIA because if you don't it'd be like someone puts another Relic to your head after you get rid of it and thought that you survived.

 

[Jeyl]

Songbird may be driven by survival, but she's the pinnacle case of 'Ends Justify the Means'. It's not so much a matter of her betraying everyone, but how she's so willing to let so many people, innocent or otherwise, die. Her plan to escape the Stadium by creating chaos that would result in the death of innocent bystanders was a line I could not cross. That mentality paints her as a character who sees herself above all others, even those who trusted her with their lives.

The game's attempt to make her story a parallel with V didn't work for me because our methods on survival are totally different. My V will never kill anyone unless it was absolutely necessary. All I saw in doing the "Help Songbird" path was that it led to more killings, even forcing my V to use the power of the blackwall to kill people in the most horrific way possible.

In the end, I ask myself "Why am I saving this person?" I couldn't come up with a good reason.

 

[tavellone]

Yeah I don't see how murdering Reed and sacrificing your own life to a person who has murdered countless people and tricked a dying person into helping her by manipulating them with a promise of a cure is the good way, I never played that ending because as soon as she told me she had lied to me I gave her ass straight to Reed, but it does seem like that path is the one CDPR wanted and expected most people to do because it has much more content than giving her up and unlocking the mediocre separate ending that path gives you, but I don't know why anyone would chose that because even if you're sympathetic towards her situation, which up until that point I was, she literally bullshitted you for her own gain. Am I to assume that V has a Christ like level of turning the other cheek and self sacrifice when they have literally also killed countless people just to survive himself? Beyond which, if they do save her they are essentially committing to killing scores of more people to fulfil their desire to live.

So I do feel sorry for her, she didn't have a real choice in most of the actions in her life, unlike V, but you could say the same about the scores of people V kills for their desire to keep on living and one more NUSA netrunner isn't a moral quandary especially when they tell you they betrayed you.

 

[Kormac67]

My V will never kill anyone unless it was absolutely necessary.

You will have issues then. In the other path you have to do a terrorist attack on innocent policemen just transporting a criminal.

At the station, I think even though her lie, it was a sensible thing to send her to the moon instead of giving her to the FIA

After cutting our way through a battalion of special forces just say "well, maybe not" and make it all for nought? No way.
I made a decision earlier, and stuck with it, like the outcome or not. Didn't like to kill Reed of course, but he should have stood down.

it does seem like that path is the one CDPR wanted and expected most people to do because it has much more content than giving her up and unlocking the mediocre separate ending that path gives you

Huh? What content? Expansion ends right after the choice no matter what.
The mediocre (yeah) separate ending is much longer than the little epilogue (which I won't spoil) you get later if you send her to the moon.

 

[tavellone]

You will have issues then. In the other path you have to do a terrorist attack on innocent policemen just transporting a criminal.


After cutting our way through a battalion of special forces just say "well, maybe not" and make it all for nought? No way.
I made a decision earlier, and stuck with it, like the outcome or not. Didn't like to kill Reed of course, but he should have stood down.


Huh? What content? Expansion ends right after the choice no matter what.
The mediocre (yeah) separate ending is much longer than the little epilogue (which I won't spoil) you get later if you send her to the moon.

I meant the option to side with Reed.

 

[CTPhipps]

I think the important thing to think about in Songbird's story is that there's no morality to it. It's not a decision you can divide into "good" or "evil" and attempts to do so will be unsatisfying because they ignore the reality of it in order to provide a clear moral choice that simply doesn't exist.

Which is why the ending works well.

Songbird got a raw deal and is suffering immensely so that freeing her seems like the moral thing to do and the NUSA is evil for exploiting her like they have. However, the body count at the stadium (including children) and manipulation of V and the fact that she is going to Mr. Blue Eyes means that the idea this is about the "right" thing isn't right. No, you're helping a mass murderer escape justice to possinly join with the AI Illuminati.

Songbird is also suffering cyberpsychosis and Blackwall corruption that makes her decision making extremely skeptical.
We don't even know if they'd continue to use her to pierce the Blackwall because her insanity and possession are things that she hid from her employers.

But there's the fact that the NUSA does use and spit out people that are otherwise loyal to it. Reed got sold out by Myers despite his loyalty and there's the question if the NUSA is really worth following. Is rebuilding the United States something worth doing? Probably. Is it worth doing into what Myers envisions? That's another question entirely. The NUSA is already being rebuilt and that's by the Nomads who re-established trade routes and ended the massive famines. Militech reconquering old territories doesn't help in the slightest.

Yet, it could all be worth it if places like Night City with their snuff films, slavery, and mass murder finally are put under the rule of law.

In the end, helping either side makes a worse world in some ways but can be justified morally.

 

[Avalon_railguns]

Just to brighten up the grim world of the dystopian future, I'll offer my view of the situation (one of the many I have):

Songbird is an almost entirely positive character in Phantom Liberty
Everything she does is a solid positive in the end.
1. She doesn't betray V, she a) at the cost of her lies, dissuades him from going into the FIA's special labs as a guinea pig, and b) by her “betrayal” she blocks Reed and Rosalind Myers from using him as their obedient tool.
2. Since Phantom Liberty does not provide a positive scenario in the event that anyone (V or So Mi) use the neuromatrix to cure their cybersomatic problems, so, it turns out that, the neuromatrix is an extremely risky and ambiguous tool derived from beyond the BlackWall, the use of which is associated with many ambiguously positive and negative effects. Thus, with the wisdom of a man intimately familiar with the dangers of the Black Wall, Song takes the vaccine hit, saving V's health, and flies to the Moon to meet her destiny.
3. Years back, she does not betray Solomon Reed, but instead saves his life on the train. Rosalind Myers doesn't sacrifice Reed on that damn train either, but instead does everything to ensure that Reed survives as a canned agent. So Mi is absolutely unmistakable in her role, which is why Reed gets an extra chance to survive.
4. Seeking her own salvation, she activates a special operation of the NUSA and uses a vast network of FIA agents to eliminate a dangerous war criminal, traitor and tyrant, Colonel Kurt Hansen, involving a lot of outside characters (otherwise Hansen will not be reached!).
5. Having destroyed several dozens (or hundreds) of Dogtown residents at the stadium (mostly marginalized, homeless and criminal elements, declassified residents of Night City), she thus clearly shows the unpreparedness of humanity's electronic defense systems before the approaching AI invasion from behind the Wall, and having made a local explosion, thus giving a warning and an opportunity to the rest of humanity to better prepare for the inevitable.
P.S. Among other things, she gives V a beautifully romantic night in a space port, with hundreds of dead special forces soldiers and a helicopter, gives him some skills of intelligence agent, intimately acquaints him with the allure of the BlackWall, and produces a formative effect on his moral integrity.
Do good, be like So Mi!

 

[MartineDee]

My MO is to go for the apex bully and hurt them, or worse.

Song is a tool to hurt Myers. So, I go for it in my canon, despite seeing through Song's bs from the start. Pack her on the ship to the moon, and feel how Myers is starting to sweat.

Morality is for some other world. In this game, I am just a self-centered vigilante/villain, depending from which side one looks.

 

[Skyember]

Am I the only one who doesn’t find her all that sympathetic? The DLC frames helping her as the 'good ending' and that giving her over to Myers is selling out someone who just wants to survive for your own selfish desires. Basically the 'bad ending'.

Except she betrays EVERYONE. I know the story tries to frame her as a mirror to V - another person forced into desperate actions to save her life - but it doesn't change the fact that she fucks over every single person in pursuit of that.

Imagine if V screwed over the Aldecaldos, Misty/Vik, Judy, River, Kerry etc etc in pursuit of a cure and then had a moment where they cry about how guilty they feel...but then keep doing it again and again anyway. That feels like Songbird. There's nobody she's not willing to stomp over if it means her survival.

Every single person in the DLC she basically screws over, especially V since their ONLY reason for being involved is because she promised them a cure. And then right at the eleventh hour, she basically tells them that EVERYTHING they did in the DLC, all the risks they took, was just so she can be cured while V's left with no solution and Myers now holding a grudge against them. She played on their desperation for her own gain and leaves them holding the bag.

Again, let's imagine V did something similar. Like he tricks Panam into thinking that raiding Mikoshi would somehow help the Aldecaldos (and it doesn't in this hypothetical, unlike the actual Star ending) rather than it being a mutually beneficial arrangement. Then they leave the clan to face Arasaka’s wrath while they run off. Would V come across as sympathetic if they basically decided to throw the Aldecaldos under the bus for their own survival?

It also doesn't help that she has a callous view of civilians. At no point in the main story are you forced to murder innocent people. The one time it happens - when Alt kills all the employees at Mikoshi - V's appalled and makes it clear they didn't plan that or assume Alt would do that. You can even choose the 'Don't Fear the Reaper' ending because you wanna go out on your own rather than risk the lives of your friends.

Meanwhile, in the branching path, Songbird says she plans to cause a mass murder of the people in the stadium as a distraction. V can point out that a LOT of people would die from that and she shrugs her shoulders and goes "They'll die so we (and by that I mean just me) can live". Like unless everyone in the stadium were Barghests, this comes across as the moment that solidifies her as someone who doesn't deserve a happy ending.

I think Songbird calling it a stadium confused myself and others into thinking it had civilians inside. But the stadium is actually just a base of operations for Hansen, i believe.

As for Songbird's actions, she does manipulate V by waving the promise of a cure above their head. That was wrong of her, but I consider her actions forgivable for 2 reasons:

1. She was extremely desperate. She was effectively Myers' slave who was using her to conduct operations outside of her jurisdiction with impunity.

2. She tells V the truth. Everything she did up until that point was calculated and self-serving. But there was no practical reason why she would ever tell V the truth. She had V in the palm of her hand. If she had kept quiet, V would've given her what she wanted, no questions asked. But she feels remorseful, and so she tells V the truth, and leaves herself at their mercy.

Post automatically merged: Sep 19, 2024

I mean she's absolutely the LEAST straight person with you as the entire premise is based on her lying to you about a cure since she never intends for you to have it versus herself.

REED is straight with you. Which doesn't help matters because he's straight about the fact he's loyal to a faux democracy in the NUSA.

Also, So Mi is probably lying about Myers too.

Because if she hates her THAT much and thinks she's THAT much of a danger, why does she go out of her way to make sure Myers isn't hurt or killed?

So Mi's original plan was to trade Myers for the Matrix. At least that's what I recall.

 

[Oksiki]

Do I despise that she lied to us? Yes. My V never forgave her for what she did, even if she sent her to the Moon.
Do I find her unsympathetic that I want to doom her fate? No, I find her very pitiable and that she deserves a second chance.

I find So Mi's character fascinating because she isn't black/white or good/evil kind of simple character. I think of her as someone who just wanted an average life - as average it can be in Cyberpunk universe, who wanted to make a name and succeed like V, while being surrounded by her close ones. But she got caught by Militech/NUSA, and Reed basically threatened her to join NUSA. A lot of people seem to look over this fact that Reed blackmailed her into it, by saying shit like something bad will happen to her friends if she didn't. She never joined willingly. Her memory from Somewhat Damaged shows this. And Myers turned her into a netrunning/Blackwall weapon in her arsenal, taking away both her body and soul. That bunch of creepy chrome on her head and body? They were done in ONE surgery. Can't imagine how damaging it can be to one's mind. Not to mention using Blackwall made her lose memories and sense of reality.

She had already been in a lot more desperate situation than V. And in a lot worse condition, too, even before hacking the stadium in Firestarter if you side with her. And Myers knew about this. There's an NUSA medical report you can find in the basement of Moth bar about warnings of her condition, as I recall. And unlike V who has some options to go to Mikoshi with Aldecaldos or Rogue and Johnny or Takemura, she has no one to turn to, while being under scrutiny of Myers.

Hence, one elaborate but poorly executed plan, with Hansen breaking the deal to safely land the plane and kidnap Myers. Even with the grudge she had against Myers and NUSA, she never wanted to harm her and people on the plane. And regarding the stadium thing, I believe it involves both soldiers and civilians' sacrifice, which is not okay at all. But siding with Reed turns So Mi into a cyberpsycho and they end up dying, regardless. Of course, as a player we wouldn't know if those people will still die even if we don't side with her, at that point. And there are more victims than people expect in this path, actually. Before getting captured by Maxtac, she goes out and kills more people outside of the stadium after losing her mind. Not to mention V and Reed kill NCPD and Maxtac soldiers to get her out.

Like I said earlier, I do despise the fact that she lied to us multiple times. I like her character and feel a lot of pity and connection through V's eyes, but let's not forget that she manipulated us frequently. But for the reasons I mentioned, I find freeing her is still a satisfying and humane thing to do. If at least one person gets to be free and make it out alive, then it was worth it in the end. But I would hate to be in V's position, not being able to know who to trust and having to survive, while the time is running out. This expansion is full of dilemmas and that's one of the reasons why I like it so much. And I don't think there is a 'good' or 'bad' ending. Each ending ends up giving you bittersweet, or just bitter feelings, depending on your viewpoint.