I quoted that part from Slama from the dev stream.
The her part could also point at a female in case of SK (unlikely), ST (propably why he corrected himself) or SY (less likely than for SK).
Also it is very unlikely for NG, NR and MO.
The her part could also point at a female in case of SK (unlikely), ST (propably why he corrected himself) or SY (less likely than for SK).
Also it is very unlikely for NG, NR and MO.
So we can agree these evolving cards, one per faction, will be really powerful, they are "the scenarios of this expansion". They will probably cost 12-15 provisions each, and be very powerful.
Now lets go back to MoO, when it was released. Everyone was using scenarios. They were definitely worth their provisions. So everyone teched against them. Next step? Find workarounds to play 1-2 chapters of scenario immediately, to minimize risk of scenario being destroyed, and these were the scenarios that ruled.
Fast-forward to now, these evolving characters. They will be very powerful (btw 1st one, for NG will be revealed on the 6th), so what's to stop me from playing a Korathi Heatwave on them R1, and denying all their future value? Will they be immune? Played automatically from the deck? Still appear on R2 and R3 even if banished/seized?
It's almost certain they will be very powerful, the question is if they will be counterable or not.
Yes, which means we know who is right on Saturday (which makes for a fun game).
They are the new card type of this expansion and like how Scenarios are basically engine+artifact, these will be based on a glorified veteran tag (hopefully they are more distict, although each having an own art with premium sounds like there will be some effort put into that).
I am not sure about that, with Scenarios they had to put a high provision cost, because they wanted them to spawn a card each time (apart from Passiflora's chapter 2 after the rework), have immediate impact (Prologue) and be triggerable multiple times (2+), which means that you will be spawning 3+ cards, even with 4 provision cards that is insane for a single card, so they cannot be accessible with less provisions.
Evolution gives you one card, which does not necessarily spawn multiple already existing standalone cards, they could also be lower in provisions.
Given that they are intended to be "glorious" I do not expect them to be outside of 9-15 provisions though.
But Scenarios were and are inherently binary with removal existing (they are to some extend what was wrong with engines in early homecoming), that alone was responsible for what happened with Scenarios.
Given Scenarios design they were guaranteed to spiral into one direction, either being too easily removed or too efficient to pass up on.
Presumably they are somewhat like glorified veterans, I cannot imagine them staying for all rounds or something like that, so I would say them not being played before Round 3 should prevent you from using Heatwave on them.
I honestly do not know why so many assume that they will be able to just appear in all rounds or even pull themselves like Roach.
It sounds to me like they just reward you for keeping them for Round 3 (if you have devotion) and will be played once (unless you recycle them with Assire, Lippy (, can Renew them) or something else).
I'm optimistic and positive and definitely excited for the new expansion. I'm looking forward to veteran bromance, looking back strenghtened greatswords weren't THAT bad were they (yeah they were)
The only worry I have is with Oneiromancy and the Squirrel that graveyard hate is gonna make a comeback and I remember from open beta that that was really awful for monsters and skellige, I really wouldn't want to see that being a thing again. On the other hand, if everyone is holding back Squirrel to wait for you to play Oneiromancy then they won't use it on Yghern, Speartip and dead Skellige people...[makes me wonder if you can play Oneiromancy, Lippy with leader from graveyard (assuming you played him already) and then on next turn use magic artifact to play any special card from your deck to Oneiromancy again?
guess that would be a lot of tutoring for nothing but costing like a gazillion provisions hehe]
So maybe it's not gonna be an issue at all because of Devotion, we will know on June 30th at the latest. Unless the faction card reveals allow for more than just guessing what could work because who knows what else they change regarding the current cards. I can't imagine i.e. Tuirseach Axemen staying unchanged, read: CDPR if you're reading this, please change Tuirseach Axemen, you have 25 more days)))
The only worry I have is with Oneiromancy and the Squirrel that graveyard hate is gonna make a comeback and I remember from open beta that that was really awful for monsters and skellige, I really wouldn't want to see that being a thing again. On the other hand, if everyone is holding back Squirrel to wait for you to play Oneiromancy then they won't use it on Yghern, Speartip and dead Skellige people...[makes me wonder if you can play Oneiromancy, Lippy with leader from graveyard (assuming you played him already) and then on next turn use magic artifact to play any special card from your deck to Oneiromancy again?
guess that would be a lot of tutoring for nothing but costing like a gazillion provisions hehe]So maybe it's not gonna be an issue at all because of Devotion, we will know on June 30th at the latest. Unless the faction card reveals allow for more than just guessing what could work because who knows what else they change regarding the current cards. I can't imagine i.e. Tuirseach Axemen staying unchanged, read: CDPR if you're reading this, please change Tuirseach Axemen, you have 25 more days
)))
I feel like evolving cards will be balanced with no tech options for those decks, so scenarios and artifacts will be useful then
I think a lot of you made good points. Especially about dead cards. But, I hope to remain optimistic, it looks like gaunter (the one we already have) will be indirectly more useful applying doomed status to things and killing them. But cards like wolfpack are almost objectively worse than every other 4 point bronze in the game.
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I think a lot of you made good points. Especially about dead cards. But, I hope to remain optimistic, it looks like gaunter (the one we already have) will be indirectly more useful applying doomed status to things and killing them. But cards like wolfpack are almost objectively worse than every other 4 point bronze in the game.
People, like me, assume that, because if these evolving cards are just cards that get slightly more powerful if played on R3, then they are not that different than the tons of high-cost golds players use and try to keep for R3, they wouldnt be special at all, and you can be sure the dev team does not want that, they want all the players to covet these new cards *cof cof powercreep *cof
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I thought so too. It reminded me of the comparisons between Maraal and Gaunter, and how Maraal was definitely better.
But then i realized Maraal is still better, because Maraal has basically 2 poisons - 1 on deploy and 1 on order - and you can replace any of those with a cheap bronze poison unit. But Gaunter does not work like that - his deploy is give doomed, his order is destroy doomed - those are two different things, and this new bronze unit can only give doomed, so basically do the same thing as Gaunter on deploy, but if Gaunter gets countered (most likely), you still have no way to finish that doomed unit.
You are absolutely right. the only hope is the other cards revealed give some more reason to play him
Same goes for Poison though, so that is not something Gaunter has over Maraal.
Yeah, except Vincent VM is 5 pts for 11 provisions, while cheap poison units are 4/5 for 5 provisions to do the same thing...
I know. My point being he will have synergy with some factions more than others. Sadly that's usually only NG but nonetheless
I have won (this admittedly pointless bet).
The Usurper just evolves and is otherwise a standard card, not pulling itself in some weird way or being resilient.
In fact it being Spy support is very interesting.
Ursurper looks ok (in a sense of not totally op) as a card.
In round 1 he is at least 9 for 11 provisions.
In round 2 he is at least 12 for 11 provisions, which isn't bad at all. But due to the operatives being doomed, that should be ok.
In round 3 he really shines, with veil and becoming an engine.
Definetly strong which has to be expected for his provisions and the required devotion, but I wouldn't immediantly call him op. If you play him without devotion he is a strong power play in round 2.
With devotion you have invested enough to really want to play him in round 3, such that you have likely a dead card in hand earlier, which in addition to Ursurper being an engine, makes you pretty vulnerable to bleeding.
By the way, my guess for NR is Calanthe or Tissaia de Vries. Both are characters with tragic ends and would be a nod to the Netflix series, Also Calanthe would be a neat connect to Duny, whom we have already seen. And I believe we will see a mage archetype for NR, for which Tissaia would fit perfectly.
In round 1 he is at least 9 for 11 provisions.
In round 2 he is at least 12 for 11 provisions, which isn't bad at all. But due to the operatives being doomed, that should be ok.
In round 3 he really shines, with veil and becoming an engine.
Definetly strong which has to be expected for his provisions and the required devotion, but I wouldn't immediantly call him op. If you play him without devotion he is a strong power play in round 2.
With devotion you have invested enough to really want to play him in round 3, such that you have likely a dead card in hand earlier, which in addition to Ursurper being an engine, makes you pretty vulnerable to bleeding.
By the way, my guess for NR is Calanthe or Tissaia de Vries. Both are characters with tragic ends and would be a nod to the Netflix series, Also Calanthe would be a neat connect to Duny, whom we have already seen. And I believe we will see a mage archetype for NR, for which Tissaia would fit perfectly.
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Agreed, although I am unsure if "not totally op" is how I would have put it.
In Round 1 playing him should only happen due to desperation/needing that bit more power for Red Coin abuse etc.
In Round 2 he becomes a 12 for 11 with spying synergies, at this point he is still below most power golds played right now.
In Round 3 (IF you are willing to fullfill devotion) you get a small engine with Veil, 2 temporary spy tags and an immediate 12 for 11 value, which is definitely incredible.
Honestly I would argue that this evolving card is comparable to Wild Boar of the Sea, if you take away a lot of the flexibilities of Wild Boar.
All around well designed and (at the very least from my perspective) perfectly balanced (given the lack of flexibility for power in Round 3).
Also this card might spark a new Nilfgaard playstyle (not just a small package one can add) [also Assire can recycle it for Round 3, although that again is less flexible if Usurper is used in Round 2].
Edit: It is also cool how Usurper has Soldier synergy
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While I hate to be negative before we actually experience the new cards, I am concerned about several aspects I am seeing in the cards revealed so far
1. I am seeing an increasing tendency for only top, gold cards to really matter. If we want variety and balance, I think the game needs to move more toward bronzes at least being a foundation rather than merely fodder.
2. There is increasing support for spam decks with no evidence of counters to it (e.g. symbiosis). This strengthens an already an overpowered archetype.
3. While tall strategies may appear to get a boost from veil, I fear this is illusory.
A. It does not prevent existing counters like theft, reset, tall removal, etc.
B. The number and source of veil granting cards appears too limited to handle the massive number of poison and locking cards.
C. If veil prevents new statuses without removing existing statuses, it exacerbated balance problems with defenders. If it removes all other statuses, it provides another (more efficient) way to deal with defenders, undermining their ability to protect tall units.
4. If echo is sufficiently common and useful, it will elicit specific counters (e. g. Squirrels). We will then have another binary mechanic, which is bad in itself. But because these counters affect all graveyard strategies, this will in turn unduly affect SK and MO factions — the two factions that are least used by advanced players.
I hope the final product avoids these issues, but I do have concern based on what has been revealed so far.
1. I am seeing an increasing tendency for only top, gold cards to really matter. If we want variety and balance, I think the game needs to move more toward bronzes at least being a foundation rather than merely fodder.
2. There is increasing support for spam decks with no evidence of counters to it (e.g. symbiosis). This strengthens an already an overpowered archetype.
3. While tall strategies may appear to get a boost from veil, I fear this is illusory.
A. It does not prevent existing counters like theft, reset, tall removal, etc.
B. The number and source of veil granting cards appears too limited to handle the massive number of poison and locking cards.
C. If veil prevents new statuses without removing existing statuses, it exacerbated balance problems with defenders. If it removes all other statuses, it provides another (more efficient) way to deal with defenders, undermining their ability to protect tall units.
4. If echo is sufficiently common and useful, it will elicit specific counters (e. g. Squirrels). We will then have another binary mechanic, which is bad in itself. But because these counters affect all graveyard strategies, this will in turn unduly affect SK and MO factions — the two factions that are least used by advanced players.
I hope the final product avoids these issues, but I do have concern based on what has been revealed so far.
I don't really like and understand why they're pushing "doomed" so much as a keyword. I've always seen doomed as a lazy and stupid solution, always suggested by players for any perceived problem (even recently there was a thread about how to nerf harmony and inevitably some asked to make waters of brokilon doomed).
I get it that this expansion is centered around Gaunter, and his current card interacts with the doomed keyword, however i was more inclined to think they'd change Gaunter than push this keyword so much in order to make him more viable.
I get it that this expansion is centered around Gaunter, and his current card interacts with the doomed keyword, however i was more inclined to think they'd change Gaunter than push this keyword so much in order to make him more viable.
Not really true, there are quite dangerous bronze cards (e.g. Hawker Smuggler, Half-Elf Hunter, Svalblod Priest, Endrega Larvae etc).
And in the new expansion Offering, Etheral (as a low provision Gold with potential high impact) and Seditious Aristocrats are examples for potentially very high impact bronze cards.
In the beginning of homecoming your criticism would have been right, the game was one awful mess in which drawing bronzes felt extremely bad.
However the same does not hold anymore, low provision cards are scaling up extremely well and in a lot of cases you do not even think about "this would have worked out so much better with one of my leftover gold cards".
Of course this also depends on the faction (see SY as an example), however over all I completely disagree with your statement.
You stated that the tendency introduced in this expansion points in this direction, which is just wrong (especially considering something like Devotion bronze cards and I am not even sure if Devotion should and/or will end up on Gold cards, which even goes in the completely opposite direction than what you were claiming).
Bleeding is less effective in short rounds which can often be the case in the 3rd round. You don't get the full benefit of bleeding If each player has 3 cards in the 3rd round then he's not as vulnerable as you put it
There are dangerous bronze cards only in specific factions. you mentioned "Seditious Aristocrats " but I'm sure you know spies are only practical for one faction so I fail to see how this helps anyone else. Adding a few neutrals with no synergy with other factions does nothing for them. All I see happening now are spies using double ball since it's an aristocrat.
Offering...Same thing.
3. While tall strategies may appear to get a boost from veil, I fear this is illusory.
A. It does not prevent existing counters like theft, reset, tall removal, etc.
Nothing you've mentioned addresses the above for a faction that can already readily employ any of these at any time they choose. So it feels like a bandaid much like scenario was just a bandaid and a veiled attempt masking the problems.
Reddit Community of Gwent seems much more positive, though I would rather drop the internet as a whole for good reasons not just Gwent forums.
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Seditious Aristocrats are not Neutral btw. it's an NG card.
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Ok, with more cards revealed, I am definitely noticing power creep here. I hope they buff some of the original cards, like wolf pack or peasant militia, otherwise those cards are completely pointless compared to these 6 to 7 point bronzes.