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This scorch/damage chaining meta prevents all creative combos.

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TweetyLeaf

User
#1
This scorch/damage chaining meta prevents all creative combos.

I complained about scorch before the patch also.

Gwent seems to be build around different units interacting with each other in some meaningful way. Scorch, thunder, NR ballista, Impera, etc ruins the base idea of building combos.

It's not anymore about who outwits who, but its about who deals more damage while at the same time racking up small unit points, there is absolutely no room for other kind of play

If your deck don't deal damage you will never rank up.

I think that is not fun or creative or challenging way to play the game.
 

4RM3D

Moderator
#2
So, instead of damaging units, you just want both sides of the board to try to rack up as many points as possible without interacting with each other? That's even more boring.

Damage builds, limit the potential of certain decks, but at the same time, it creates more variation. Regardless, your deck doesn't have to deal damage to rank up. In every meta, there are always decks that just try to spew out as many points as possible.

PS. Moved the thread because this is not a suggestion.
 

MU24bmw

Junior Member
#3
4RM3D;n10455222 said:
So, instead of damaging units, you just want both sides of the board to try to rack up as many points as possible without interacting with each other? That's even more boring.
Exactly. We don't just want points vomit with players not even bothering to interact with the other side of the board.
 

TheShift

Poser
#4
I'm feeling kinda the same way though.
I realise that "vomiting points" (as its called)
is not always fun.
but there is a lot of decks that do it.it's not like it's limited to one faction
the thing is..is it completly shuts down the engines to those decks.. might as well just fold after round 1

so I'm guess this meta is going to be built around who can cause the most damage
yeah..that's a lot more fun
/sarcasm
 

TweetyLeaf

User
#5
4RM3D;n10455222 said:
So, instead of damaging units, you just want both sides of the board to try to rack up as many points as possible without interacting with each other? That's even more boring.
No.

So hostile reaction...


Vomiting points is bad, I agree, but there is difference trying to setup the table and mindlessly putting 12 point bears on table.

For example just 2 card skellige longsword combo is rather pointless to try and do atm, because you just get alzurs thundered (I dont play skellige, but you get the point).

It should take brain and setup to win the games, not mindless smashing of "destroy shit".
 

TweetyLeaf

User
#7
OG.laloquaint;n10455382 said:
Yeah, let's remove Scorch and every damaging card. Let's erase the game while we're at it.
No. That is what Im NOT saying. Im trying to say that chaining damage spells while racking up small units is brainless and does not make the game good.
 

TheShift

Poser
#8
I'm not saying one way or another is better..

Seems to be trending to load up on damage cards.
 

PraytheRosary

Junior Member
#9
TweetyLeaf;n10454972 said:
I complained about scorch before the patch also.

Gwent seems to be build around different units interacting with each other in some meaningful way. Scorch, thunder, NR ballista, Impera, etc ruins the base idea of building combos.


thats the idea mate

TweetyLeaf;n10454972 said:
It's not anymore about who outwits who,

killing your setups/cards is a strat, which card dies which one doesn't.

TweetyLeaf;n10454972 said:
but its about who deals more damage while at the same time racking up small unit points, there is absolutely no room for other kind of play

Its a balancing act tweety, dealing too much damage sometimes hurts your overall point score, stacking without taking advantage of pop shots, is a missed opportunity.

TweetyLeaf;n10454972 said:
If your deck don't deal damage you will never rank up.

flat out damage decks are poo tho.

TweetyLeaf;n10454972 said:
I think that is not fun or creative or challenging way to play the game.
pure stacking isn't either, find a balance.
 

Funky69

Junior Member
#10
if interacting wouldnt exist, there would be only one deck which vomits the most points. all would play it and only the card draw would decide who wins. great idea
 

TweetyLeaf

User
#11
PraytheRosary;n10455462 said:
thats the idea mate[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]


killing your setups/cards is a strat, which card dies which one doesn't.


Its a balancing act tweety, dealing too much damage sometimes hurts your overall point score, stacking without taking advantage of pop shots, is a missed opportunity.


flat out damage decks are poo tho.


pure stacking isn't either, find a balance.


I'm gonna reply to you better tomorrow, but I really want to stress out that I have nothing against Scorch being in the game or damaging units.

What I am against is chaining those spells with units.

Running damage in deck should be decision "Is that unit the most dangerous one that I need to remove it, or do I need to hold on to my scorch/thunder etc."

Now the thunder's and scorches are basicly unlimited with right kind of deck, you can just remove everything because there is no value holding them, you can always scorch 5 times more if needed.
 

StrykerxS77x

Poser
#12
TweetyLeaf;n10455402 said:
No. That is what Im NOT saying. Im trying to say that chaining damage spells while racking up small units is brainless and does not make the game good.
What in this game could be classified as not brainless? None of these plays are difficult or complicated.
 

StrykerxS77x

Poser
#13
TweetyLeaf;n10455492 said:
Now the thunder's and scorches are basicly unlimited with right kind of deck, you can just remove everything because there is no value holding them, you can always scorch 5 times more if needed.
How many decks can scorch five times? SC can obviously do three times but I really don't know what you mean here.

 

x1Cygnus

Junior Member
#14
StrykerxS77x;n10455542 said:
How many decks can scorch five times? SC can obviously do three times but I really don't know what you mean here.
Can be done with ST easily; I have a 6x scorch deck; Scorch x2 with Eithne, Schirru, G:Igni, Villen, and then use Renew for one more - it's a bit of a meme deck, and pretty much useless past a certain point, but does work very well against Consume - which is about the only thing it does work well against.

 

StrykerxS77x

Poser
#15
x1Cygnus;n10456732 said:
Can be done with ST easily; I have a 6x scorch deck; Scorch x2 with Eithne, Schirru, G:Igni, Villen, and then use Renew for one more - it's a bit of a meme deck, and pretty much useless past a certain point, but does work very well against Consume - which is about the only thing it does work well against.
That other poster was making this stuff sound like it's really good when it's really not. Villen and Igni aren't scorch effects at all and are prone to be useless to near useless in a lot of games. It can be hard to fit one scorch into a good deck let alone two or three. Scorch is great but it doesn't put points on your side of the board and you have to make sure that it only hits the other side and not your side.
 

x1Cygnus

Junior Member
#17
StrykerxS77x Yeah, I made the deck just for a laugh one day as I was fed up with Bears and thought: "I wonder how many times can I scorch this nonsense?"

Answer: not that many.
Only one or two scorch effects is enough in that situation. And I agree G:Igni can be hard to get any significant value from as pretty much everybody tries to play around it these days, and Villen is very easily countered.... and yeah, I've burnt the occasional tall Farseer... feelsbadman :(
 

FG15-ISH7EG

Junior Member
#18
I basically agree with the topic. Chaining of removal can be a problem and can limit the design a lot.
Of course, removals are necessary to create interactions with the enemy side, but that is different from decks just sniping every single card that is played. With cards like Elven Mercenary and Sages it is possible to play a lot of Alzur Thunders with additional points on the own side, such that decks that don't spawn more than one card at once can't do anything. I remember in the past, when I knew against Eithne decks that my first 4 cards wouldn't even matter because they would be instantly sniped.
Of course it became a lot less usefull with all the tutor cards in the new meta, but in theory it is still possible as there are only 18 bronze cards over all factions, who have more than 9 power.
And while the game becomes boring if both players just vomit points till the end of the game, it becomes even more boring, if both players just try to destroy every single enemy and the last card standing wins.

Therefore, I don't think Alzurs Thunder is in such a good place currently, as it not only does a lot of damage, it also takes the roll of Dimetrium Shakles by shutting down low tempo enemies.
Alzurs Thunder should became a card that's main purpose is to deal damage, by damaging a unit by 6 and adjacent units by 2.
Shackles should get the option to damage an enemy by 6 and if it has less than 4 points left to lock it or lock an enemy and deal 3 damage to it. This way, shackles can fullfill the roll of the current Alzurs by shutting down any enemy with less or equal to 9 points.
 

TweetyLeaf

User
#20
FG15-ISH7EG;n10459462 said:
I basically agree with the topic.
At least someone understands.

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I want to stress again, im not against doing damage to your opponent, but chaining damage be it alzurs, scorch or unit ability is not good for the game.
I kinda do not understand why many people don't see it, or is it just that everyone plays dmg decks these days and are afraid of nerf...