All ranged weapons had a minus 25-50% to headshot multiplier while snipers got a +15%, revolvers got a -50% dmg in addition to the reduction of headshot dmg.
Trying to do ranged stealth now is effectively hitting everyone with wet noodles. Masamune and Liberty do 'ok' with this for now, but not ideal.
The idea is still that stealth+headshot do more damage than the base weapon without the attachment.
I still don't understand how people think STEALTH *and/or* NETRUNNING are dead. This take is just objectively, verifiably, demonstrably untrue, fake news, falsehood. This stopped being excusable by the end of September because by then anyone interested in learning the new tree/systems should have already worked out how to make their build work. As a matter of fact I am using the exact same Overwatch/ShingenV/Bat StealthRunner kit that I was using in 1.3.
The fact that I can walk into a cyberpsycho den at like Lvl 12, distract them with a Sonic Shock and neutralize them before Regina is even off the phone is the first indicator of this, when in 1.3 I had to genuinetly prepare to take on Psychos before 2.0 [and honestly maybe the Scaling is part of the issue in this area, at least].
There are so many videos of these playstyles 2.0 and most of them are talking about how brokenly OP they are.... here are just a few. Maybe observe the builds and see if they work for you.
And I promise you don't have to be level 50+ to experience this. Once I got Memory Wipe I stopped needing guns at all. Once I got a T2 with a suppressor I stopped needing Netrunning at all. I came here to complain about the major issue with the game is that EVERY build is so OP that they overcome almost every obstacle in the game, especially with the scaling, that the game becomes stale by rarely-if-ever requiring you to switch up your playstyle to overcome a challege.
except it's very easy to verify that ithis claim is not fake news and is in fact 100% true and all the so called "proof" that it isn't involves chars over 30 or heavy modding.
The fake news is claiming that stealth netrunning is still possible and easy.
The idea is still that stealth+headshot do more damage than the base weapon without the attachment.
I still don't understand how people think STEALTH *and/or* NETRUNNING are dead. This take is just objectively, verifiably, demonstrably untrue, fake news, falsehood. This stopped being excusable by the end of September because by then anyone interested in learning the new tree/systems should have already worked out how to make their build work. As a matter of fact I am using the exact same Overwatch/ShingenV/Bat StealthRunner kit that I was using in 1.3.
The fact that I can walk into a cyberpsycho den at like Lvl 12, distract them with a Sonic Shock and neutralize them before Regina is even off the phone is the first indicator of this, when in 1.3 I had to genuinetly prepare to take on Psychos before 2.0 [and honestly maybe the Scaling is part of the issue in this area, at least].
There are so many videos of these playstyles 2.0 and most of them are talking about how brokenly OP they are.... here are just a few. Maybe observe the builds and see if they work for you.
And I promise you don't have to be level 50+ to experience this. Once I got Memory Wipe I stopped needing guns at all. Once I got a T2 with a suppressor I stopped needing Netrunning at all. I came here to complain about the major issue with the game is that EVERY build is so OP that they overcome almost every obstacle in the game, especially with the scaling, that the game becomes stale by rarely-if-ever requiring you to switch up your playstyle to overcome a challege.
You say stealth net running isn’t dead and link three videos, but none of those videos show a stealth net runner. They are all weapon builds (sometimes in stealth) with some net running support.
The idea is still that stealth+headshot do more damage than the base weapon without the attachment.
I still don't understand how people think STEALTH *and/or* NETRUNNING are dead. This take is just objectively, verifiably, demonstrably untrue, fake news, falsehood. This stopped being excusable by the end of September because by then anyone interested in learning the new tree/systems should have already worked out how to make their build work. As a matter of fact I am using the exact same Overwatch/ShingenV/Bat StealthRunner kit that I was using in 1.3.
The fact that I can walk into a cyberpsycho den at like Lvl 12, distract them with a Sonic Shock and neutralize them before Regina is even off the phone is the first indicator of this, when in 1.3 I had to genuinetly prepare to take on Psychos before 2.0 [and honestly maybe the Scaling is part of the issue in this area, at least].
There are so many videos of these playstyles 2.0 and most of them are talking about how brokenly OP they are.... here are just a few. Maybe observe the builds and see if they work for you.
And I promise you don't have to be level 50+ to experience this. Once I got Memory Wipe I stopped needing guns at all. Once I got a T2 with a suppressor I stopped needing Netrunning at all. I came here to complain about the major issue with the game is that EVERY build is so OP that they overcome almost every obstacle in the game, especially with the scaling, that the game becomes stale by rarely-if-ever requiring you to switch up your playstyle to overcome a challege.
Doesn’t casting contagion cause every npc it touches to start a trace?
So casting contagion during the heist (with limited ram) and staying in stealth might be problematic, right?
Also isn’t the trace block on shock tier 3? Would a level 10 have access to tier 3 hacks?
One can obtain T3 quickhacks/crafting specs by looting Netrunners in Watson or unlocking attribute-check locked treasure rooms. Unlike vendors or access points, Netrunners and locked treasure rooms loot drops are designed to drop one tier above what V currently has.
In case anyone doubts this, here's proof as early as level 6;
One Netrunner can be found between Cassius the Ripperdoc and the Northern Watson apartment (hiding behind an alleyway)
Another can be found East of Judy's apartment just as the road bends under the overpass
And naturally all the hidden-event Netrunners found all around Watson which are tied to unmarked lore
All treasure rooms hidden around Watson as well have a chance to drop quickhacks directly instead of crafting specs
Netrunners respawn pretty fast and can be farmed if one wishes to, but it's unnecessary. All main missions in ACT 1 and the Heist in particular are designed in a way so they can be fully stealthed through with nothing but Distract, so literally no hacks other than Distract + Takedown are even needed.
Done the entire stealth segment at level 10 myself with absolutely no other hacks, which is the lowest possible level in 2.0 to get to the mission (just rushed the main missions to get to ACT 2).
As for Contagion; it's not really a stealth quickhack since it alerts enemies. It's great for wiping out groups fast if one doesn't care about alerting enemies, but an actual Stealthrunner will want to use [Covert Quickhack] + [Combat Quickhack] combo due to the Embedded Exploit perk which allows them to one-shot enemies.
Doesn’t casting contagion cause every npc it touches to start a trace?
So casting contagion during the heist (with limited ram) and staying in stealth might be problematic, right?
One can obtain T3 quickhacks/crafting specs by looting Netrunners in Watson or unlocking attribute-check locked treasure rooms. Unlike vendors or access points, Netrunners and locked treasure rooms loot drops are designed to drop one tier above what V currently has.
In case anyone doubts this, here's proof as early as level 6;
One Netrunner can be found between Cassius the Ripperdoc and the Northern Watson apartment (hiding behind an alleyway)
Another can be found East of Judy's apartment just as the road bends under the overpass
And naturally all the hidden-event Netrunners found all around Watson which are tied to unmarked lore
All treasure rooms hidden around Watson as well have a chance to drop quickhacks directly instead of crafting specs
Netrunners respawn pretty fast and can be farmed if one wishes to, but it's unnecessary. All main missions in ACT 1 and the Heist in particular are designed in a way so they can be fully stealthed through with nothing but Distract, so literally no hacks other than Distract + Takedown are even needed.
Done the entire stealth segment at level 10 myself with absolutely no other hacks, which is the lowest possible level in 2.0 to get to the mission (just rushed the main missions to get to ACT 2).
As for Contagion; it's not really a stealth quickhack since it alerts enemies. It's great for wiping out groups fast if one doesn't care about alerting enemies, but an actual Stealthrunner will want to use [Covert Quickhack] + [Combat Quickhack] combo due to the Embedded Exploit perk which allows them to one-shot enemies.
OK let me rephrase the question. Maybe using the word "access" was the wrong word.
I meant "access" as in equip. Can a level ten equip "blue" (aka tier 3) hacks?
To equip a tier three hack you need a tier three deck. Already assuming you have a tier 2+ deck, you need will need a large amount of blue material. (Because at level ten I do not believe you can buy tier three cyber gear yet at ripperdocs).
I just checked my level ten with a tier 2+ deck. They need 37 more blue level material to upgrade....
I have a few green level material, but not enough to make even one more additional blue level material.
So doing some simple math: 5 white equals 1 green, and five green equals 1 blue.
That means I need 5 x 5 x 37 worth of white (tier 1) material to upgrade the deck, 5 x 5 x 37 = 925 white material. And this is AFTER upgrading to tier 2+ mind you. (BTW Just as a FYI, I currently have 512 tier one material, just for reference.)
Now MAYBE if the player did not upgrade ANYTHING ELSE, they may be able to scrape that much material together by level ten, but is that realistic?
(P.S. it feels like I am hijacking the thread here, sorry.)
Doesn’t casting contagion cause every npc it touches to start a trace?
So casting contagion during the heist (with limited ram) and staying in stealth might be problematic, right?
Also isn’t the trace block on shock tier 3? Would a level 10 have access to tier 3 hacks?
The other poster was helpful and eloquent about it, but I do want to quote myself just for clarification:
"and if you really eff it, queued Contagion for groups"
By "eff it," I was attempting humor while avoiding a dirty word My point was, if you get made, you want/need a crowd control option since you are not spec'ed for actual combat. And more to the point, if there are ~2-6 enemies in a cluster, it doesn't matter if you get traced, because they're all going to be down from contagion procs in about 20 seconds. Your mitigation/visibility track from Cool will help you hold off for those 20 seconds. Simply, Traceability via Contagion is only an issue if you are not finishing a fight with it.
More to the point, you only need 2-3 more Perk Points from the bare-bones build I shared to almost entirely neutralize enemy netrunners as a game mechanism [with Copy/Paste and Shadowrunner]. I am not lying to you that I am only spec'ed into Rank 2 (9 points) in Intelligence so far, and truly can only recall being successfully counterhacked [traced/uploaded] 3-5 times in my 2.0 run, and I am level 41. To restate, I have ~100 hours on this 2.0 file, and I have been sucesfully traced less than 5 times. I will conceede that I am not a 100% runner the whole time, but to get that far into play with what was inteded as a S-R build, and never needing to get T3 perks is just another example of how OP Running can be, especially if suplementing a stealth build.
It's really at the point that you don't even have to build for stealth running. If you go full combat runner you are just as likely to kill everyone before you get traced anyway. What does it matter if you get traced if that lets you backflow a hack via the enemy runner and chain-suicide everyone on the other end? By level 20 you can have access to 4th Rank perks, and nuke everyone with Quad Queues and Overflow.
I'm not trying to get snippy about this, but we are two groups of people who are effectively gaslighting one-another about what you can and can't do in the game. Except one side has positive proof and the other side is trying to prove a negative. The good news is that if you feel like it is impossible, you don't have to prove it. The better news is that the people who *know* it is possbile have plenty of information to share on how to make it work if you care to learn instead of trying to continuing to try to prove a negative. It's also not that the way we are saying to do it is the only way to do it, it's just that it's the foundation of the build, because the foundation of any build is the fist rank of perks and supporting hardware. Once you have those, the rest of the build is as crazy as you want it.
I don't know if my URL was acting up but it does seem that my build I shared earlier is a little wonky from what I intended to share. Perhaps I pasted it wrong. Here is another; if I have done my math correctly this is a Level 12 build with no extra Perk Points (no shards/skill level/etc).
OK let me rephrase the question. Maybe using the word "access" was the wrong word.
I meant "access" as in equip. Can a level ten equip "blue" (aka tier 3) hacks?
To equip a tier three hack you need a tier three deck. Already assuming you have a tier 2+ deck, you need will need a large amount of blue material. (Because at level ten I do not believe you can buy tier three cyber gear yet at ripperdocs).
I just checked my level ten with a tier 2+ deck. They need 37 more blue level material to upgrade....
I have a few green level material, but not enough to make even one more additional blue level material.
So doing some simple math: 5 white equals 1 green, and five green equals 1 blue.
That means I need 5 x 5 x 37 worth of white (tier 1) material to upgrade the deck, 5 x 5 x 37 = 925 white material. And this is AFTER upgrading to tier 2+ mind you. (BTW Just as a FYI, I currently have 512 tier one material, just for reference.)
Now MAYBE if the player did not upgrade ANYTHING ELSE, they may be able to scrape that much material together by level ten, but is that realistic?
(P.S. it feels like I am hijacking the thread here, sorry.)
Obviously I've got my own thread of arguments here, so I won't get in the weeds on this part, but do remember that loot pools change every 10 levels. So if we're consider, based on the build link I sent above, that you'll be around level 12 before you're fully situated into stealth running, that you'll have a *bit* less trouble upgrading.
But, I also want to say, while I am on the verge of being an apologist for it being "all the way to level 10 or 12" before you can start to dig into a build -- lets be honest, if level cap is 50+, should we be able to do everything our build is intended to do perfectly 1/5 of the way in? No not really. Most of the truly game-changing skills on EVERY tree are located in the Rank 3 Perks. It's okay. We have to work our way there a bit. I didn't get my stealth build working right until level 30+ pre-2.0, and I'm sure some of that was on me, but we can't expect endgame power by level 10. If you feel we had that level of power before, then maybe that's why they changed some of what they changed.
Yes, here's my level 10 about to go into the Heist. One can get to T3 even sooner by level 8 if they really want to, but I personally am in no rush.
Unlike pre-2.0 which actually made the player gradually go through different tiers, in 2.0 it's laughable how effortless it is skip over both T1 & T2 to go straight for T3. Which is where the Netrunner becomes completely unchallenged to do this type of stuff very early in the game;
I understand this 2.0 update is for those who want a more GTA-like experienceand it's focused on improved combat and chases and shit but why did you have to ruin netrunning playstyle for those of us who don't care about police and love the game as-is?
All cyberdecks are ruined and their perks are completely useless now, thank you guys. What a shit update.
Melee Netrunning is totally possible though i would probably go Monowire. You just have to slap Reboot Optiks on everyone beforehand. That is probably the biggest damage mitigation apart from Beserk invul that you can have. I am playing 99% Monowire and after lvl 30 like so many playstyles have become very godlike even on very hard. In the beginning i also got shot to pieces but you can do so much to increase your damage and mitigate incoming.
I dont know why so people are complaining about netrunning when it combines with everything so easily. And stealth netrunning is probably the most busted version of all netrunning styles. I give you that up to the point where you get the blue Audioshock you have to deal with tracing but thats like 1/10th of the time you play. But in the first 15 levels or so you fall back to guns in so many other builds aswell.
I dont even know how OP netrunning was in 1.0 when now you can just walk into the Arasaja conpound and everything just dies left and right. I mean you all are aware of the op endless Synapse Overload loop are you?
In 1.0, netrunning was more than OP. It was possible to wipe out an entire area/building, from outside, through walls, in a couple of seconds, without been detected and by a sungle clic
Before, thanks to legendary Ping, you were able to directly hack through walls... No need to bother about cameras, nothing.
Ping > Contagion on one target > everybody dead
And thats what people are complaining about when referring to stealth netrunning is now non-functional- you kiddin me? I mean i can understand that its a bit clunky in the early levels but what build isnt in the beginning?
Yep, started a melee/blade build in 2.0 and as long as I didn't get a sandevistan nor several useful perks, I was pretty weak and rather uneffective with a blade^^
I am playing Militech and it is now so overly busted. The monowire damage perks you get are so plentiful (35% Militech per Ram spent, 60% Militech when in overload, 15% Cripple movement, up to 8 times +15% iconic cyberware malfunction on bosses applied with one cast and a few Monowire applications, easy hitting of weakpoints, super long range. I only use Reboot Optics, Cripple Movement and Cyberwaremalfunction. From lvl 40 on i was in god mode. Also with overload you get the pseudo sandy effect with Revulsor pretty often and somewhat reliable. I wish i could take on Chimera and the Animal Boss in Pacifica again because they were a pain when i was low level.
Also i had 3 takes on Netrunning in 2 runs so far. I started of as stealth Netrunner and soon realized that stealth isnt needed anymore and you can run around like Songbird in the Tychopart slowly walking and just kill everything. I found it too op so i switched to smart guns with the Militech which is also op af with quickhacks uploading so fast with smart machine guns. Then i though ok, less synapse bullshit and Monowire sounds like it is going to be hard. And the fights are indeed intense but you are in the middle and dish out so much damage. But like i said it wouldnt work without reboot optics - thats the busted skill. Next one is Netrunner Sniper with a try on the Netwatch Deck and let everything explode from afar.
And thats what people are complaining about when referring to stealth netrunning is now non-functional- you kiddin me? I mean i can understand that its a bit clunky in the early levels but what build isnt in the beginning?
