How to solve GWENT meta decks scourge forever.

[Guest 4021160]

How to solve GWENT meta decks scourge forever.

Ok, so every new patch brings new meta's, new top decks and new disgraceful fall from the pedestal of previous top rated decks. Everyone will forever cry about how this is OP and that is nerfed too much. Every player will hate playing against one certain deck in everymeta. Even the top player were hating on NG in PB vanilla.

It is possible to solve this this with a new ranked model. The one which was used in GWENT challenger. Every player in ranked has to present 3 decks of different archetypes. Your opponent then will have to choose one to ban and then RANDOMLY choose from the remaining 2 which to play against (maybe pick from 2 facedown leader cards).

There are several problems this mode would solve in gwent:
1. It will solve the scourge of meta, which is going to be autobanned in this mode.
2. It will provide so much needed RNG in card game (preventing the solved game as MERCHANT often mentions in his videos).
3. It will force players to learn other factions, providing variety in game.

There're problems this mode will create:
1. New player will be overwhelmed by this ranked mode, therefore it should be optional. An addition to the current ranked model.
2. Player who are still collecting the cards, will have a difficult time creating 3 competitive decks, therefore again, this is not for new players, shouldn't be main way of ranked gameplay.

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Do you think this is achievable?

 

[4RM3D]

Imagine a pesky little mosquito that's zooming around at night, keeping you awake. And you can't seem to kill it. So, what do you do? You bring out the flamethrower. Well, half of your bedroom is burned down, but hey, at least that annoying mosquito is fried.

See, that's what you are proposing and while it works, it brings far too much collateral damage. IF (and I stress the word) you want to implement such a system, then you would have to split up the rankings. For example, everyone below rank 16 will have the normal system and once you hit rank 16, you will switch to the new system. This is far from perfect, but it at least eliminates more of the problems presented with implemented your original suggestion.

 

[Guest 4021160]

It's not going to work above lvl 16 only as the meta deck problem is less of a problem at that level. I think. I am not lvl 16.

I do not understand your flamethrower analogy. Please explain in game terminology. I don't think meta decks are a little mosquito. I think it's the largest CCG game problem forever, because it forces you to play 1 or 2 decks if you want to climb the ladder.

Look at King Black Toof for example, he refuses to be "part of the problem" by playing meta decks and sticks to his monster weather decks. Can go above rank 13. And he's an amazing player.

It is not a little problem, but it is a huge solution if you can ban a meta deck. OR maybe do not ban it, tech against it and punish the player who IS a part of the problem.

There will always be OP decks and there's always players who wishes to benefit from it. If we're using analogies without proper explanation: can you not see a mosquito becoming an elephant in the room?

Also Ban 1 randomly choose from other 2 is a good system. It is. Because it is fair. It forces you to think about your deck choices. It punishes you if you choose to benefit from netdecking. I would LOVE this addition.

I understand the problem of splitting ranked games. It is indeed inconsistent.

I will not even dare to suggest to change the current ranked.

 

[kaalev]

I won't say I like the idea. We simply need this. This or a sideboard.

Too much rng and no luck makes kaalev a dull boy.

 

[Mystikast]

I understand the flamethrower analogy, basically he is saying --- you are going overkill to solve a problem.

I like the idea of having more versatility for multiple reasons

1) It is boring to play the same deck over and over
2) It is boring to play against the same deck over and over
3) Spices things up and allows more versatility and decks you wouldn't normally see

Your proposal however is a tournament format; that is just what it is. That is how tournaments are played.

Any tournaments GWENT has, I imagine, would follow that system. As far as regular ranked? There's a meta in every card game there has ever been and always will be. Just how it is. It is up to you to make GWENT fun, the developers can only give us so much. If you want to see multiple different decks in ranked, start playing multiple different decks.

As soon as you start playing gwent (mainly) for fun, and don't care as much about your ranking, things like the META will slide south in your worry list.

Trust me, when I was younger, I prided myself on my ranking in certain games; took it like it was literally my life blood.

Now I can mention those games to people --- and no one even has any idea what they are --- or if they do --- they don't really care I was good at it. Basically, in 10 years, who will care what your gwent rank was? No one.

TL;DR Play for fun, meta will always be around, the format you proposed is a tournament format and you will get to play it if you play in tournaments.

 

[WingedEspeon]

Tournament formats develop metas as well...

 

[Guest 4021160]

I refuse to think that way. "meta is always there", "It is how it is".
It can be done. It can be used outside tournaments.
It can be a solution to CCG biggest problem.
Do you want me to write an algorithm? Are we not using same mechanics currently stored within cards?

Let me give you an example:
Thaller lets you choose from faceup cards.
Vattier de Redeaux lets you choose from both faceup and facedown cards.
Previously Priscilla used to do the same.

Now lets think in algorithms for a second.

Are you telling the same algorithm cannot be implemented prior match. FOR leaders?

Are you telling me it is not possible to hover over a card to click it to put a large X on it? Then see a little animated transition to another screen where the remaining cards are facedown? Then hover and click. OR just let algorithm choose for your randomly.

When you open new kegs, don't you see similarities?

It is possible.

Also I like competitive gameplay. It is fun. I like climbing the ladder, but I refuse to be part of the problem.

 

[Skryba86]

I think this would be a pretty interesting idea for a tournament ranked mode, not for the regular ranked mode.

Separating between ranks/levels would just alienate people who dislike the idea of the format, who would then feel that their "reward" for climbing the ranks is to be forced to play in a way they dislike.

And forcing it on everyone would be impractical for the reasons you yourself mention.

But I did love watching the challenger tournament, and I think the format added a lot of strategy to the competitive play. I'd love to see it implemented in ranked play, in a separate ladder.

 

[Guest 4021160]

As much as it pains me. I will have to agree with Skryba86. The biggest problem in gwent are people and no dev will go against people.
Making an unpopular decision can damage a dev greatly.

lets stop here for a moment and break it down a bit. Dig deeper.

If you present a change to a crowd, it will always be unpopular one, because a crowd has an everlasting conundrum of diversity. You see this everyday in politics and you read about it in almost every history book. Lets take brexit as an example. The moment everyone saw the referendum results everyone knew that **** is about to hit the fan.

Now back to gwent. When was a change presented by CDPR not followed by a massivelly diverse backlash of cry and praise in the forum? Never is a word youre looking for.

My point being making a problem solving change will always generate some dissatisfaction in a crowd.
A crowd is what it is. A constant of variables. But if the change is right you need to make it.

 

[Rammyp]

Now I can mention those games to people --- and no one even has any idea what they are --- or if they do --- they don't really care I was good at it. Basically, in 10 years, who will care what your gwent rank was? No one.

What do u mean, no one?
I plan to carve my rank on my tombstone, along with the lvl and pioneer status!!!


But seriously, this change will just create 3-4 most popular meta's instead of one. For example after the patch I encounter a lot of SK axe men, some monsters (comsume and weather) and some NR siege. Assuming these are the best decks players will just pick 3 of these, and with SK banned by the players, as the most popular deck, most of the matches will be NR vs monsters. Maybe there will be a bit more variety but in the end it will still be 2-3 meta's.

New players that could save scraps/buy enough kegs for one decent deck will have to include 2 starter decks, and that will lower their chances against a veteran player (not necessarily a better one) who has enough cards for 3+ consistent top decks.

I'd like to try this idea on tournaments though.

 

[xDivinity]

I have a better idea.Ban all the streamers\youtubers.Problem solved right ?

 

[Guest 4021160]

I have a better idea.Ban all the streamers\youtubers.Problem solved right ?

Better ideas are welcome. I have my eyes open for yours.

 

[xDivinity]

Ive posted sollutions on various other topics.This was meant to be a joke on my 3 min break at work.Excuse me.

 

[Guest 4021160]

But seriously, this change will just create 3-4 most popular meta's instead of one. For example after the patch I encounter a lot of SK axe men, some monsters (comsume and weather) and some NR siege. Assuming these are the best decks players will just pick 3 of these, and with SK banned by the players, as the most popular deck, most of the matches will be NR vs monsters. Maybe there will be a bit more variety but in the end it will still be 2-3 meta's.

Yes, it would create 3-4 metas. But its not just about choosing what to play with, but what to play against as well. Maybe you will ban the best meta for your opponent, and tech your other two decks against the 2 other metas.

And then you start playing as see that your opponent is not using top tier decks at all and you got pwnd.

This surprise factor, bluffing will really come into play with this mode. It obliterates the "look at my deck its meta [everyone follows]" state the game is in right now.

 

[Guest 4021160]

Ive posted sollutions on various other topics.This was meant to be a joke on my 3 min break at work.Excuse me.

Yeah, i was joking too.

 

[Yahdop]

Or we can wait for more variety of cards to come out that will cause the xreation of more diverse decks. I mean, as far as CCG's go, this one only has bare minimum required.

 

[MrRagdoll]

No matter what you play, there will be meta. It simply isn't logical that group of people that wants to be the best wouldn't use the best given.
Only solution is to make game perfectly balanced and that is insanely hard.

 

[Tir_na_Lia]

The proposed solution is too complicated, even assuming the devs would accept the effort to implement it.

A sidedeck would be much simpler and would solve more.

 

[Guest 4021160]

The proposed solution is too complicated, even assuming the devs would accept the effort to implement it.

A sidedeck would be much simpler and would solve more.

Please ground your arguments. If it is too complicated then why. Complicated to whom devs or players?

Are we trying to solve the same problem? I am proposing a solution to meta deck scourge, not RNG which sidedeck solves.
Both requires some quite complicated coding to be done.

 

[Thanatos35]

No matter what you play, there will be meta. It simply isn't logical that group of people that wants to be the best wouldn't use the best given. Only solution is to make game perfectly balanced and that is insanely hard.

I agree. Only solution is to balance the game. Atm, I don't think any nerf or buff would be very justified (except maybe for the savage bear). They should give more weapons to other factions by adding more cards. For ST: add a few cards strenghtening the ambush and mulligan mechanics. For NR, either buff some shit golds or add some related to their mechanics. For NG, I don't see no changes to do (I like it how it is even though NG suffered a nerf). For monsters, I don't know what they could really do (maybe give more possibility to mill their deck)
Generally speaking, the game would be way more interesting imo if every faction had the possibility to mill harder their deck. That's why I love NG: you can play your entire deck. It seems easy but it requires a lot of thinking to play your card in the right order depending on the situation.
Anyway, I find it a bit scary that CD Projekt hasn't be able to balance ONLY 5 factions. HS always had this balance problem (until last extension where the meta is very good except for 1 faction that has turned shit) but I don't remember the game has ever been so unbalanced as Gwent is right now