Avatars to the people!

[Zack723]

Avatars to the people!

I 100% agree that borders and titles should be tied to ranking as bragging rights and fill that niche nicely, but with avatars defining the only way players are able to interact with one another during matches, it seems limiting to have them tied to rank as well. Provide a plethora of varied options for players to choose from and let us buy them with ore, scraps, or meteorite powder. Am I the only one that thinks avatars shouldn't be tied to ranking or veterancy?

 

[TV_JayArr]

As long as I not mistake. The avatars beyond rank 10 are all different versions of characters with an already existing avatar. That looks perfectly fine to me. You should be rewarded if you put in a lot of effort and time in the game and get exclusive (comsetic) jewellery.

 

[Zack723]

Not the case. The rewards this season are Zoltan and Eredin, neither of which currently have an alternate publicly accessible avatar version. The Regis and Odrin avatars were also only available during limited time events. As I said, I'm perfectly fine with the "exclusive (cosmetic) jewellery" like borders and titles, but the avatars are currently the only way beside gg that we're able to interact with our opponent. I also imagine it's off-putting to new players who may have missed the one time event to get Regis, or may have missed a past season and the avatars that were available to win. Titles and borders seem like more than enough bragging rights for veteran and high ranking players.

For the sake of transparency and to avoid dismissive "git gud" comments, I'm currently level 20 this season, so this is an entirely selfless suggestion. It also would likely lead to more variety in avatars among the player base if they're all made available, as people will choose their favorite character to represent them in game, rather than simply whichever one comes with the most bragging rights.

 

[TV_JayArr]

Zack723 First of all Zoltan is a rank 10 reward! You know what you will be able to get at the start of a season, reaching rank 10 should cause no trouble at all. You are right about Eredin.

Odrin and Regis are season event rewards for completing the respective standard mode, if you are not able to complete it and want this avatar, there are several walkthroughs to follow to get the avatar (and border).
There is nothing wrong about content being available for a limited amount of time provided, that it is handled like it is right now. It is the standard mode and you got 2 weeks time, if I am not wrong.
If it is justifiable to complain about a player starting in march 2018 not having access to the avatar that was a reward for an event in november 2017, then just give him the Pioneer title, all the Spot 1000 and better borders and an invite to Gwent Masters on top of that.

I get your point of a bigger avatar pool to customize yourself in-game somehow. This comes with time. Rank 10 affords probably 50 ranked games with a 20% winrate, for now every season brings one more avatar to those players. Ranked seasons will last 1 month in 2018 this means these players get double the avatars, plus the avatars from the events that seem to hit the server more frequently. Self-evidently not every player can have his/her favorite character from the novels and the games from the beginning. There is still more space for avatars and I am looking forward to get them gradually and not all at one.

Furthermore I do think it is right to benefit players with cosmetic customization that is not accessable for anybody. Reaching the top 1000 is hard and no matter how you think about it being a simple grind or not, it affords a lot of investment and dedication. If someone does not (chose to) invest that much in a game then this is perfectly fine, but he wont get awarded with a border/title/avatar/whatever. You cant have/get everything. It would not be fair for player A if player B gets everything player A achieved with a lot of work,skill and time; Without investing anything compared to him.

 

[Zack723]

And that will be 2 more avatars unavailable to new players. Remember that we're still in closed beta, so if the game is going to survive long after launch and get new players, it's probably a bad idea to start by alienating with having more avatars inaccessible than accessible, and impossible to get. Let titles and border mark veteran/pro players, not avatars.

Your logical fallacy is equating avatars with other cosmetic items like titles and borders. To repeat myself for a third time, I have no problem with titles and borders (such as the Pioneer title) being exclusive, as they don't effect how players interact with one another like the avatars do. Between titles, borders, pro ladder, and gwent masters don't we have enough exclusive content for high ranked players? I think avatars should be the one area where casual and competitive players have equal access. Also, comparing making all the avatars available to all the players to everyone getting an invite to Gwent Masters is a ridiculous straw man argument.

I feel that everyone should be able to choose the personal avatar to represent them, as that's the entire point of avatars in the first place. Locking them behind a rank wall shouldn't be a thing, when titles and borders already exist as exclusive rewards. Having 2 new avatars released every season would be great, but only if everyone has access to them. Otherwise it's just another feature only the top tier players have access to. I'm not asking for everyone to get everything, just stating that I believe avatars are simply where we should draw the line.

As for Odrin and Regis, I'm all for season event special releases, but why not release the avatars to everyone as a holiday gift while the borders and titles are exclusive to those who complete the limited time challenges?

 

[TV_JayArr]

And that will be 2 more avatars unavailable to new players. Remember that we're still in closed beta,[...]

We are in OPEN beta. The game and the account for GOG is for free. As a new player you can't expect to have the same trinket collection like a player that plays 1 or even 2 years longer than you.

[...]Your logical fallacy is equating avatars with other cosmetic items like titles and borders.[...] I'm not asking for everyone to get everything, just stating that I believe avatars are simply where we should draw the line.[...]

It is a fallacy because I am of a different opinion?! Besides you are, you are just defining trinkets not as one but as Avatars (in-game interaction) and Borders/Titles (veteran-bragging) seperated; And in the second step you just mix them again but twist your opinion on them by mashing your opinions inconsistent. Furthermore I don't think avatars are the line to draw, thats what I said before and this is where our dissent lies.

[...]I'm all for season event special releases, but why not release the avatars to everyone as a holiday gift[.][...]

This will change the number of 'missing avatars' for a player that starts with Gwent later by no means.

[...]Also, comparing making all the avatars available to all the players to everyone getting an invite to Gwent Masters is a ridiculous straw man argument.[...]

It was meant to be an inane argument to highlight the lack of justifiability in your proposal. On one hand you say veterans shall be rewarded on the other you say it shall be done by making everything available to anybody.

I am missing the linguistical skills to really convey what I want to, thus it is the last try and I'll repeat myself.
If you agree with rewarding players after participating in one specific season, then there is no way you suggest to deny this exclusiveness from this player, by granting a player - who didn't even have an account by then - access to this exclusiveness. That claim is contradictory.
If you didn't attend the gamescom you can't demand an exclusive pin/sticker/shirt/skin/whatever that a publisher/developer/... distributed right there. It is the same with these Gwent avatars. If you join Gwent in march 2018, it is foolish to think you already played in september 2017, reached rank 10 and got Ciri (Skellige Garb) as an additional avatar. You don't run into a mall 2 weeks after there was a 70% discount on Product *Random* and force the seller to give you that discount.

Officially Avatars, Borders and Titles are combined as Trinkets, they don't affect the gameplay, it is all for bragging and customizing. The differentiation of Avatars not being comparable to Borders/Titles is made by you and I disagree.

 

[Zack723]

We are in OPEN beta. The game and the account for GOG is for free. As a new player you can't expect to have the same trinket collection like a player that plays 1 or even 2 years longer than you.

Apologies, I meant to say open, not closed beta. Either way, beta isn't launch, and I think the amount of content barred from new players should be limited, at least where avatars are concerned. I'd rather see a variety in avatars, rather than seeing the same few over and over, or see players equip whichever ones come with the most bragging rights. In my opinion, that's a niche that titles and borders already fill.

It is a fallacy because I am of a different opinion?! Besides you are, you are just defining trinkets not as one but as Avatars (in-game interaction) and Borders/Titles (veteran-bragging) seperated; And in the second step you just mix them again but twist your opinion on them by mashing your opinions inconsistent. Furthermore I don't think avatars are the line to draw, thats what I said before and this is where our dissent lies.

The issue isn't that your opinion is different, just illogical. Of the three trinket categories, the avatars are distinctly not like the other two, in that they aren't entirely cosmetic. While borders and titles are entirely cosmetic, avatars define how we as players interact with one another, which shouldn't be limited. I'll relent that I don't have an issue with making alternate avatars of existing characters exclusive, as the developers have done in the past, but new avatars that don't have alternative models such as Eredin, Odrin, Regis, and Zotan shouldn't be exclusive without the developers providing a publicly available alternate model for each at the very least. Two bragging rights trinkets is enough, so why not make the third a bit less exclusionary? While I do hit at least rank 20 each season and have placed in the top 1000, I feel the borders and titles are enough incentive to do this, and would prefer avatars be publicly available for the sake of variety, rather than limited by ranking or veterancy. If a player prefers to play matches in casual, I don't feel his favorite character should be barred from his to use as an avatar, just because he or she didn't want to go through the slog to hit rank 20.

This will change the number of 'missing avatars' for a player that starts with Gwent later by no means

I think you misunderstood what was suggesting here, which was to make the holiday avatars available to everyone (old players that were present for the holiday and new players alike that missed it) as a holiday gift, while leaving the titles and borders as the exclusive gifts for competing the challenges.

t was meant to be an inane argument to highlight the lack of justifiability in your proposal. On one hand you say veterans shall be rewarded on the other you say it shall be done by making everything available to anybody.

This is the second time you've accused me of saying I'm advocating "making everything available to anybody," which was not my argument. That is the definition of a straw man argument, which is a fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. As I've said repeatedly, I simply wish to separate avatars from the other bragging rights trinkets, which I believe are already more than sufficient for their purpose, and make them available to all players. What harm is in that? Veterans are still rewarded and new players aren't alienated by seeing a bunch of avatars they can never acquire.

If you agree with rewarding players after participating in one specific season, then there is no way you suggest to deny this exclusiveness from this player, by granting a player - who didn't even have an account by then - access to this exclusiveness. That claim is contradictory.

I agree with rewarding them with titles and borders, not avatars. I'm arguing to keep the former exclusive and the latter more accessible. There is no contradiction. I'm not sure why we need exclusive titles, avatars, AND avatars rather than just 2 out of 3. I'm saying the developers shouldn't release exclusive avatars, but rather have them available to everyone, while keep the other two trinket options exclusive. You keep lumping the three together, along things like Gwent Masters, whereas I'm differentiating avatars from the other two trinkets. All things are not equal. By your logic we may as well make premium card skins exclusive, as they're just cosmetic additions. At the very least, let players buy missing avatars with meteorite power, which would give players something else to purchase with it if they have all the premium cards the want..

Officially Avatars, Borders and Titles are combined as Trinkets, they don't affect the gameplay, it is all for bragging and customizing. The differentiation of Avatars not being comparable to Borders/Titles is made by you and I disagree.

We'll have to agree to disagree there then. I think when avatars are the only manner of interacting with another player (unlike the entirely cosmetic borders and titles), they may not affect gameplay, but they do affect the gameplay experience. I would much rather play a game with a wide variety of avatars available to everyone, so I don't hear the same sound bites time and time again, than one where over half of them are locked to new players behind this wall of exclusion.

 

[Draconifors]

You make good arguments, Zack723 . Successfully convinced me that avatars could indeed be made available to everyone, one way or another.

 

[partci]

... It was meant to be an inane argument to highlight the lack of justifiability in your proposal. On one hand you say veterans shall be rewarded on the other you say it shall be done by making everything available to anybody...

Really? Everything? Are Avatars everything? How many times should be repeated that Borders and Titles are fair enough reward for High Ranking players till it gets into your head?

I am also waiting for Avatars or Borders for achieving a certain level - I think this is also a fair reward for players who like to play, but are repulsed by the regular ladder (as I am, at level 89). After Level 60 you kinda don't care about keg rewards anymore and an Avatar here or Border there will be a nice reward for this players who like and play the game, but don't want nothing to do with the snooze fest that becomes the ladder since one point forward. So making an adjustment to get a Border or Avatar at every 5 levels after 70 or 10 after 50 seems pretty fair and rewarding to me.

About the Holiday Avatars - I think that after an event is passed they could make them purchasable with Ore or some small sum of money (let's say on the price of one keg). Just available for free for them does not make a lot of sense to me. And even than they can be a bit different (maybe flipped), so one could know that if that particular player had actually played the event, or he had ordered the said Avatar/Border afterwards.

 

[alexmanelistu]

I am for this too. I love certain characters and I can t unlock them because I am not so good at this game. my highest rank was 18 and I never broke the curse. but now I want eredin and I will be forced to net deck to unlock him ( I play monstly my decks )
OR to give us an alternate option to reach them , as you said borders and titles are enough to illustrate player's skill

 

[TV_JayArr]

Zack723

[...] thus it is the last try[...]

It's pointless.... This was no discussion at any point. The two of us held a monologue, each of us, and posted them in the same thread.

 

[Zack723]

No, what we had was a debate. Judging by the responses, you lost. You're entitled to your opinion though.

 

[partci]

Zack723
It's pointless.... This was no discussion at any point. The two of us held a monologue...

If you read only your posts and go diagonal on couple of others while skipping everything else... sure.

 

[4RM3D]

This thread is on the verge of derailing into a very dark tunnel. Let's switch tracks quickly. If you have nothing else to add to the discussion, then just let it rest.

 

[TheNotoriousThree]

Completely agree with you. Avatars shouldn't be held back as ranking rewards.. that's what titles and borders are for.

 

[Raunbjorn]

I 100% agree that borders and titles should be tied to ranking as bragging rights and fill that niche nicely, but with avatars defining the only way players are able to interact with one another during matches, it seems limiting to have them tied to rank as well. Provide a plethora of varied options for players to choose from and let us buy them with ore, scraps, or meteorite powder. Am I the only one that thinks avatars shouldn't be tied to ranking or veterancy?

I asked CDPR the exact same question a couple of months ago so it probably won't change in the near future however they said that they will consider making changes someday. Not exactly the answer I was hoping for but oh well.

Personally I'm "okay" with how things are now except I wish it was rank 18 instead of 20 for different reasons. First of all it would still be an achievement but you wouldn't have to grind your life away to get it. Another Reason is that I think more players would get into ranked play as the avatar would become within reach for way more people.

Just don't have avatars behind a paywall!

 

[Ruthless95]

i'm not quite sure what you are suggesting here but as you know hitting high ranks (19 and specially 20-21) is more than counting on your deck or luck to do the work for you. i literally had to tunnel vision lifecoach/freddibabes style my way to rank 20 last night after a week of being stuck at 3950-4100 swamp.
i said that to say i don't think most of those who hit high ranks and play competitively are happy with the concept of gaining what a player who only plays casual could gain as well.
idk what you suggested but having avatars bound to ranks are fine too as long as there are few different avatars available to be purchased by in game currency.
so in that way competitive players keep their unique avatars while those who do casual (or other incoming gamemodes) won't be left empty handed.

 

[Zack723]

My suggestion was to have the borders and titles remain as they are, reward for ranked play, while having the avatars available to everyone. I don't have any issue with alternate character avatars being tied to rank, like the alternate ciri and yen. What caused this concern was this season releasing Zoltan and Eredin as ranked rewards, without providing an alternate version of them to the public such as Eredin with his helmet on. I've already hit level 20 this season as well, so this isn't be whining that I want access to an avatar I can't win. It's just me saying that I think borders and titles already serve the purpose of rewards/bragging rights for competitive players, while avatars should be available to everyone as they're the only way we interact with our opponents besides GG.

 

[Ruthless95]

My suggestion was to have the borders and titles remain as they are, reward for ranked play, while having the avatars available to everyone. I don't have any issue with alternate character avatars being tied to rank, like the alternate ciri and yen. What caused this concern was this season releasing Zoltan and Eredin as ranked rewards, without providing an alternate version of them to the public such as Eredin with his helmet on. I've already hit level 20 this season as well, so this isn't be whining that I want access to an avatar I can't win. It's just me saying that I think borders and titles already serve the purpose of rewards/bragging rights for competitive players, while avatars should be available to everyone as they're the only way we interact with our opponents besides GG.

ok. i told you my suggestion which means more content for everybody and its better than nothing because... have you looked at the new avatars they have dedicated to rank 10 and 20 for season 4 5 and 6? lol now not only rank 10 and rank 20 rewards are new characters the avatar for top 1000 are new characters too. radovid francesca calveit rank 10s, roche bran harald ranks 20s, letho dagon foltest top 1000s for the next 3 seasons.

 

[Sigurd_3]

Thank you. I'm glad at least someone else has a problem with avatars and titles being rewarded the current way. Like someone else in this topic, I was fine with alternate avatars being rewards for having a MMR from 1-1000, and ranked 20 (for me at least, I have struggled to rank up from 19 to 20 and thus have never even reached that). However, starting with this season's Eredin avatar reward, and then the following seasons avatar rewards that we can clearly see, I have a serious issue with the current system of avatar rewards.

Letho, one of the avatar characters I asked in the "ask a dev" topic during season 2 of whether he would be added as an avatar or not, is a reward if you are a player that reaches the top 1000 on the leaderboard. Letho, an avatar that I wanted above all others; even more so than Vesemir (who hopefully they add at a certain point). I know with the current system that I don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the Letho avatar because there is no way I will be in the top 1000 on the leaderboard. They should have just left the alternate avatars for such high and exclusive rewards, and not for entirely new characters.

I hope CDPR makes whole new character avatars pretty accessible to all players. The previous suggestion in this topic of crafting avatars with scraps is one way. I honestly am surprised they went in this direction with avatar rewards for new characters. They are and will be so inaccessible to most players.