Impending removal of artifact removal (lol)

[Philido]

In the latest devstream it was said that the existence of artifact removal is considered problematic and changes to fix this are going to be implemented in the near future. What do you think could that mean for scenarios? Should they get nerfed because they would be too strong without a real counter?

 

[Six-Sided-Prism]

In the latest devstream it was said that the existence of artifact removal is considered problematic and changes to fix this are going to be implemented in the near future. What do you think could that mean for scenarios? Should they get nerfed because they would be too strong without a real counter?

Absolutely, Scenarios often play for 20+ points. They are without a doubt the best, most broken cards in the entire game. If there's no longer going to be the option of removing them, then I don't think they should ever play for more points than their provision costs. They will all most likely need to be completely reworked. Let's hope that this will in turn lead to them nerfing some of the other high-end Golds and 4-Provision Bronzes.

 

[TVSAdamwest]

Just scrap scenarios. They lead to lazy deck building, and people won't have to run heavers or heatwaves that they don't need.

 

[DRK3]

I thought MM would bring cards that would replace scenarios, but that was not the case.

The evolving cards are pretty good, but they're not gamechangers as scenarios are, and i had been struggling lately with my meme decks because i wasnt running scenario removal, from the moment i added a heaver to them, it was completely different, because NG and SY scenarios have pratically infinite point ceilings and definitely need to be stopped to have a chance.

 

[Slizzl]

There's nothing stopping them from adding more multipurpose artifact removals like they did with purify.
Designing artifacts to be completely uninteractable didn't work in the past and it won't work now either.

From a non-gameplay standpoint I love the idea of having cards revolve around certain scenarios in the lore, but they are simply too strong when played for full value. The ST and SK ones are a bit weaker but they will still be autoinclude the second Elves or Druids get stronger.
I don't think they can ever add more scenarios to the game if nothing is changed about them.

 

[Guest 4368268]

The biggest problem with these scenarios is the fact they're rolling out engines.
Rolling out several engines in a turn is notoriously busted and this was well known before scenarios ever came around.
As such it's questionable (to say the least) that scenarios were printed in this form to begin with.
The only artifacts I actually appreciate are Petris Philter and The Frightener, both of which are fine without artifact removal existing. The Frightener especially is cool design and supports an archetype the proper way.

Scenarios have also contributed to making blue coin feel as bad as it often would in Beta again.
I'd like it if scenarios had a passive effect or were more long round oriented rather than 'play 40 points in three turns'
That way you could diminish its value by trying to secure a short R3 and you don't need artifact removal and you can play around it in a way that's not so binary.

I like what they've done with weather and balancing the effect around the provisions and the fact you can't remove it anymore. Have a scenario support the NG soldiers archetype throughout a round and for NR you can make it support the notoriously underwhelming mage archetype. Two flies with one swatter.

 

[judgecsk]

- If they are going to get rid off artifact-scenario removal cards then they would either have to greatly nerf scenarios or boost the whole "Devotion" concept for each faction, especially those who can't play scenarios twice.

- I can't think of another way cause as others mentioned above scenarios are really strong cards and if they do take away the option to remove em then every deck would have to run with a scenario, don't know if that's bad but it greatly limits deck building variety imo.

 

[Sensimilius]

Madness.
First either hard nerf Ball or give it (and all scenarios) Doomed status!

 

[Celadyl]

devotion doesnt exclude scenarios, quite the contrary actually?

 

[judgecsk]

devotion doesnt exclude scenarios, quite the contrary actually?

- Indeed you're right but if they are not going to come up with a new concept besides devotion and they remove artifact removal from the game i don't see how a neutral deck would be up to par against any of the scenarios we have in the game atm.

- I'm a relatevily new player (started upon android release) so admittedly i most likely don't know of the full potential a neutral deck has but if we're talking about the current competitive meta, man i really don't see how a neutral deck can win against NG double ball or SK without artifact removal.

 

[Celadyl]

yeah I don't think they will just remove artifact removal without compensation, that would be a deathblow to the game imo. I gotta admit I wouldnt know how to resolve this issue in a graceful manner

 

[Sensimilius]

yeah I don't think they will just remove artifact removal without compensation, that would be a deathblow to the game imo. I gotta admit I wouldnt know how to resolve this issue in a graceful manner

Hmm, if the remove scenarios from the game then removing artifact removal will be understandable. Either nerf scenarios (Especially the NG one) or they might as well just cancel this game and give it a quick death with honor, don't let it (and us) suffer. ;(
It's pretty damn easy to do it too, first of all give them the doomed status, then everything else is just fine tuning.
Some artifacts like Sithil (the frozen sword that gets +1 dmg if it kills something) for example aren't played at all, basically acts as a filler card to add to quantity but quality is neglected, meanwhile Masquerade Ball blows everything else out the water lol (plus u can play it 2 times).

 

[Philido]

Hmm, if the remove scenarios from the game then removing artifact removal will be understandable. Either nerf scenarios (Especially the NG one) or they might as well just cancel this game and give it a quick death with honor, don't let it (and us) suffer. ;(
It's pretty damn easy to do it too, first of all give them the doomed status, then everything else is just fine tuning.
Some artifacts like Sithil (the frozen sword that gets +1 dmg if it kills something) for example aren't played at all, basically acts as a filler card to add to quantity but quality is neglected, meanwhile Masquerade Ball blows everything else out the water lol (plus u can play it 2 times).

Masquerade Ball is op and the rest of the faction is unfortunately relatively bad atm... if they really removed scenarios from the game or nerfed them to the ground then they would also have to give the factions that heavily rely on them (SY and NG especially) viable alternatives. Doomed sounds like a good idea to prevent Double Gedyneith and especially Ball from becoming too strong as they would lack a proper counter.

 

[Lokiat0r]

Masquerade Ball blows everything else out the water lol (plus u can play it 2 times).

Actually, you can play it THREE times. R1 play the Ball as normal, R2 put it back in the deck with Assire then play it with Oneiromancy, R3 play Assire from the graveyard with Renew and have her put it back into the deck again, then play it with Oneiromancy again.

I've only encountered this once...

 

[Sensimilius]

Actually, you can play it THREE times. R1 play the Ball as normal, R2 put it back in the deck with Assire then play it with Oneiromancy, R3 play Assire from the graveyard with Renew and have her put it back into the deck again, then play it with Oneiromancy again.

I've only encountered this once...

Sometimes human depravity knows no bounds... :|

 

[Celadyl]

Masquerade Ball is op and the rest of the faction is unfortunately relatively bad atm... if they really removed scenarios from the game or nerfed them to the ground then they would also have to give the factions that heavily rely on them (SY and NG especially) viable alternatives. Doomed sounds like a good idea to prevent Double Gedyneith and especially Ball from becoming too strong as they would lack a proper counter.

you seem to be right as I dont encounter NG very often atm. either that, or ball players are tired of never getting GGs

 

[Slizzl]

Actually, you can play it THREE times. R1 play the Ball as normal, R2 put it back in the deck with Assire then play it with Oneiromancy, R3 play Assire from the graveyard with Renew and have her put it back into the deck again, then play it with Oneiromancy again.

I've only encountered this once...

I just made a deck for this, 3/3 matches won. I can't stop laughing.

 

[Guest 4368268]

I just made a deck for this, 3/3 matches won. I can't stop laughing.

No Gwent players will attend your birthday this year

 

[ya1_]

They are without a doubt the best, most broken cards in the entire game.

But are they? NG always plays the Ball because honestly NG doesn't have points elsewhere. SY plays the Passi because it's that good. And then what? Siege is like T3 of all NR decks. Haunt has big competition from Yghern/Ozzrel combo which doesn't play stupid into the Heaver. And nobody ever plays Feign Death.

Should they get nerfed because they would be too strong without a real counter?

But should they? Devotion decks except ST (which is just a sad mis-design) are some of the strongest decks in every faction (also maybe except SY which only got the 7 for 4 as a bonus so it's meh). Half the meta is already dealing with no artifact removal beautifully.

But anyways, iirc devs didn't say Heaver was to be removed. They said sth along the lines of addressing the scenario-Heaver binary interaction.

 

[Six-Sided-Prism]

But are they?

If the Scenarios aren't the strongest cards in Gwent, then what are? Can you name any other individual card that consistently provides 20 or more points in almost all circumstances? The only Scenario that's properly balanced around its provision cost is Feign Death. The other five often provide incredible value because of the free engines.

Also, you say that Scenarios aren't universally played in all factions. Part of the reason is obviously that some of them (like Gedyneith and Siege) have rather specific requirements and were mostly designed with one deck in mind, but the risk of encountering a Bomb Heaver is ultimately the reason why more people don't try to use them. If the cards that currently remove artifacts are redesigned while Scenarios stay the same, then I have no doubt that every player will go out of his way to include a Scenario in each of his decks. They're just that strong.